10 years with an oil head. Considering the LC

[darthwhite]

It does have one, are you sure the bike you rode hadn't had it removed?

The very first generation / production run LC ('13 - which I have) doesn't have a factory steering damper. These were added to every subsequent production run of LC bikes including the RT and GSA ('14 onwards). There's some speculation in old forum threads that dampers were added from the factory after Kevin Ash's death at the press launch of the LC.

It's ridable without a damper but I find the front uncomfortably light with a pillion and/or the wrong mix of pillion, luggage and preload. It's not a problem for '14 onwards bikes, but something to be aware of on the early bikes as the hyperpro steering damper kit is around £300+ fitting.

 

[mrtee43]

Heated grips on earlier bikes are shite and not for for purpose. BMW came out with loads of excuses and denied there was any problem but the later ones were quietly improved.
BMW just bluffed the issue out and let time do away with the problem.
ESA shocks don't last and if you don't believe that just give Firefox a ring at Keighley and ask for their experience of them over the years.
Engines sound like the big ends have gone, especially when hot.

 

[Spookos]

I did four and a half years on an 06 hexhead and absolutely loved it. I recently upgraded to a 2016 Adventure TE. As most of the people here have mentioned the newer bikes feel sharper, quicker steering and more modern but obviously a development from the older bikes. I’ve had lots of Jap/British and other European bikes, but I’d find it very difficult to consider anything other than GS now, I’m totally converted.

 

[Ajay]

The very first generation / production run LC ('13 - which I have) doesn't have a factory steering damper. These were added to every subsequent production run of LC bikes including the RT and GSA ('14 onwards). There's some speculation in old forum threads that dampers were added from the factory after Kevin Ash's death at the press launch of the LC.

It's ridable without a damper but I find the front uncomfortably light with a pillion and/or the wrong mix of pillion, luggage and preload. It's not a problem for '14 onwards bikes, but something to be aware of on the early bikes as the hyperpro steering damper kit is around £300+ fitting.

I too have a '13 GCLC, aftermarket steering damper fitted by P.O. Now on 37k miles, 25k by me, & utterly reliable in 4 years owned. I deliberately went for the basic version, non ESA suspension, only two riding modes (& always in just one, Road).

O, and a mates fancy LED headlight NOT BMW, failed. £800 to replace. No such worries with my old tech lights. I rarely ride at night, when I do, they are OK, I guess regular night riders will appreciate the brighter LEDs The heated grips are too hot for me on high setting, I invariably use the lower setting

 

[Dougie Danger]

I’m on my 3rd GSA. First one was a 2009 which I covered 24k miles in 12mth with no issues. Last one was a 2010 that I owned from new. Covered 80k miles and never had an issue. Bought a new lowered 1250 GSA in 2019 and now covered 18k with no issues and don’t expect to have any. Albeit I’m 6ft getting the lowered model was a great decision. A mate has a 2010 gsa and just clocked up 100k miles with no issues. Another mate having had a couple TC,s is now on his 3rd GSA LC covering over 100k just on the LC,s and again never had any issues.
Biggest issue I had going from the TC GSA was road noise which I’d never experienced before. Tried various tyres and Cont TA3 are the quietest tyre that I’ve found so far. Also you get a lot more wind blast coming up between the clock/tft and the tank you get much colder and wetter in the winter but the benefit of being cooler in the summer.
Oh and also the back of my left leg gets caked in crap. Didn’t happen on my last bike.
With the engine being so much smoother on my new bike I don’t suffer with my back as much as on my previous TC,s. I broke my back in three places last year and thought my biking days were over. But in the last six months I’ve covered 12k miles and pretty sure I wouldn’t have been able to do that on my last bikes they had a lot more vibration throughout.
Goes without saying that the newer bikes are quicker with the stronger engines and personally I find that I don’t get as tired riding the newer bikes but they have certainly have lost a bit of the character that the TC,s had. I was unsure for a while and it took about 6k miles for me to appreciate I’d made the right decision getting an LC as I liked the character of TC so much.
Cheers.

 

[stanley]

I'll just comment on my experience of reliability with the LC bikes... I'm ignoring minor things, such as spotlights failing,etc.

Bought my 2014 GSA with 2k miles on it. Inlet cam replaced at approx 10k miles. Total failure of rear shock at approx 16k miles. All covered under warranty. Some corrosion (not covered).

Got fed up with the awful gearbox so changed for a brand new 1250gsa. Perfect until engine failure at 3k miles. Replaced with new bike by BMW at no cost to me.

Previously covered many, many miles on hex heads and twin cams with no failures.

I remain happy with BMW's overall service, and the 1250 is the most accomplished bike I've ever ridden, but I'd definitely want a warranty, or a bargain price. Not many LCs with high mileages on them!


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[Nudibranch]

On my third GSA.
Had a secondhand hexhead, no issues with it at all.
Had a new twin cam which I did 50,000 miles on, no mechanical issues other than rear wheel speed sensor kept dying.
New 1250 - petrol cap suck and flat battery both sorted by BMW under warranty, no other issues but only done 7,000 miles so far.
The 1250 feels like a different bike and the increased umph is appreciated. I am happy with my new bike.

 

[zigyphoto]

Hexhead vs LC

I've never doubted the quality of the GS line -- first was a 1996 R1100, then GS1150, then a 2005 GS1200, a 2015GS-LC (destroyed in Mexico when it went over a small cliff -- without me) and now a lowered 2016 LC. I still keep a 2005 GS in Germany for Euro touring.

My only issue is that the bike feels so damn BIG! I liked sitting on TOP of my 2005, but this beast leaves me feeling like I am behind the tank rather than on the bike.

thanks especially to Santa-2512 his good experience and commentary on differences; I don't feel so off on this issue.

zk

ps: I'm on ADV as same username and when the Covid nightmare allows travel again, I'm always happy to host travelling riders.

Zigy (note the one "g")

 

[fatbaldbob]

I too had a 2010 TC 1200 GSA, ran it for 8 years before changing to a 2016 LC: In my ownership the TC went through: 3 fuel strips, rear ABS sensor, seized exhaust flap valve (all replaced under warranty) and a failed lambda sensor.

So far nothing has gone wrong with the LC, however what I do notice is: the LC rattles like a bag of spanners (apparently they all do that sir), there is no escaping the wind roar and buffeting no matter what screen set up i've tried, there is also an annoying road noise that comes up from under the front end. The TC standard screen worked great for me, no buffeting or wind roar. The TC was definitely more comfortable than the LC and has been mentioned already the ergonomics are different, a little more cramped for a larger rider such as myself and the TC had a more comfortable seat.

For sure the LC has a lot more oomph and comes loaded with gadgets that you will probably never use, but it just lacks soul, it's too easy to go too fast, it does everything without fuss, it's almost too competent, there is no fun or challenge in riding it as it's too good at everything it does.

Since owning the LC I have ridden it much less than the TC, I am fortunate to have other bikes and the LC is usually the last choice, not because it's a bad bike, but because it's too good a bike that is unfortunately devoid of character. If I could turn back the clock i'de have kept my TC.

 

[Santa-2512]

I too had a 2010 TC 1200 GSA, ran it for 8 years before changing to a 2016 LC: In my ownership the TC went through: 3 fuel strips, rear ABS sensor, seized exhaust flap valve (all replaced under warranty) and a failed lambda sensor.

So far nothing has gone wrong with the LC, however what I do notice is: the LC rattles like a bag of spanners (apparently they all do that sir), there is no escaping the wind roar and buffeting no matter what screen set up i've tried, there is also an annoying road noise that comes up from under the front end. The TC standard screen worked great for me, no buffeting or wind roar. The TC was definitely more comfortable than the LC and has been mentioned already the ergonomics are different, a little more cramped for a larger rider such as myself and the TC had a more comfortable seat.

For sure the LC has a lot more oomph and comes loaded with gadgets that you will probably never use, but it just lacks soul, it's too easy to go too fast, it does everything without fuss, it's almost too competent, there is no fun or challenge in riding it as it's too good at everything it does.

Since owning the LC I have ridden it much less than the TC, I am fortunate to have other bikes and the LC is usually the last choice, not because it's a bad bike, but because it's too good a bike that is unfortunately devoid of character. If I could turn back the clock i'de have kept my TC.

Live with it , it gets better, my entry into the LC was form hexhead - so a radical step change

hated it at first, but growing on me daily -

btw, the LC is a twincam

 

[botus]

if you got an LC its got to be a 1250, otherwise keep the old one (but you'll need a set of valves before one goes pop soon).

first ride all the toys and trinkets of a LC will seem great, and whilst cruise is essential, the rest are just worthless trinkets designed to cause pain to your wallet in not very long at all,
the engine will seem to have lots more top end, but that's the problem, 90% of your day you'll miss the better engine you had. The gearbox? once you went to the black cyl barrels of the air cooled bikes then the gearbox didn't need fixing so nothing to be had there.

Personally I never noticed an improvement in anything to do with refinement (engine NVH or chassis NVH) other than much better low speed fueling.
The brakes work on either bike so nothing to worry about there, unless you ride in rider mode Pro where cornering ABS lengthens stopping distance when upright, but may save your life on a bend

Suspension, again the modes and ESA might make you think its great, its not. Its the same budget trash not worth suffering. The forks are weaker than a pipe cleaner. Mine needed you to continuously tweak to comfort below 40 and sport above or it was awful all the time. The electronic nannies are way more intrusive and offensive all the time. Where the last air cooled bikes once in Sport were fairly inoffensive.

You might however notice the horrid cold petrol tank that was offensive every ride on your thighs
The screen is std BWM hearing damage, but will appear to wobble about more than the old bike (because it does).
The seat can't be worse, but to be honest I got shot of mine before I found out
The fly by wire throttle is truly awful, being too light and if you ride hard can be much harder to modulate safely when you and the bike are being thrown about.
The clutch has a desire to bring drive in at random! making traffic work "interesting". It was supposed to be fixed in 2014 but my 2017 brand new bike did it multiple time before they had it back for good.
Just as the badly engineered K1300 couldn't start the engine when hot due to undersized wiring, my 2017 LC had the same fault, regularly struggling to spin the engine and turning on the heated grips as a result !
On non LCD screen versions, whilst the clocks look fantastic and way nicer than the old bikes or the LCD ones, the digital characters are impossible to read
Auto lights and keyless are offensive
The brake and clutch lever were redesigned from perfection to disgusting misshaped rubbish
The super wide pointless and badly made rotary switch stops your thumb finding the offensive indicator switch
The build quality is 10 steps lower than the original GS and looks tatty before you get home. Think from Honda of the 1990 vs a Jawa abandoned in the garden shed 40 years ago after a bad winter

that's a couple of the basic points covered. I'm sure I can find another few pages of A4 if I try

 

[stanley]

Not a fan then? Lol

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[batman1]

I’m on my 6th GS-LC, since 2013, I tend to chop them in around 10k.

No real issues on any of them, but each one has been a better bike than the previous one, regardless of what you read on here, BMW are on the case and they do tend sort out faults for the next model, so get the latest bike that you can afford.

Get one bought, you'll love it.

Happy Xmas!

 

[stever1]

After 10 years on trusty 'Bertie', my 2010 RTW R1200GSA, it now has 98,200 miles on it; time to px it for something newer. Seriously considering a 2018 GSA TE in Triple Black (Triple Black because I just love the look). How reliable are they proving to be folks? I'm finding it difficult to get an objective opinion from real owners. Would appreciate examples from people who own/have owned one as opposed to non owners and what they've 'heard'. It's there reliability I want to hear about. BTW, I know all opinions are valid but I like to hear from those who've personally got one/used one. TIA. (p.s. I may subscribe to this site and try to flog my 'RTW' ready Bertie on here if I don't get a decent px offer from a dealer by mid Jan - we shall see.....)

As you can see there are a great variety of views. All relevant. Here is my thoughts.
I’ve had 5 BMW’S. 2010 GS,2012 RT, 2016 GS, another 2016 GS after previous one rejected ( 4 water pumps and other problems in 4 months). 2019 GS-TE. On each bike I averaged about 9000 to 10,000 miles per year. So they had good use.
I found each one was a bit poorer quality than the previous one and you have to accept the poorer quality as part of the deal. Having said that, the dealers in the UK are very supportive if you find one you get on with. However, the support in Europe is not that good. My 2019 1250GS broke down in Austria at about 3 months old and was lifted away by a HIAB van using the handlebars and pannier rails to lift it - I was not impressed. I had to eventually go to the dealer in Innsbruck 2 days later and sort it out myself as BMW assist had not told them what the problem was.
There are other things as well such as the mysterious cylinder knocking. Eventually I just lost faith in both the bike and BMW so I went elsewhere for my next bike.

If you can afford to buy a new one often, then get a 1250 GS as it’s a cracking motorcycle. But I don’t think modern BMW’s are built to last long.
Incidentally, I went for a Goldwing and I love it. But I would still have a GS as a 2nd bike if I could afford it. Been thinking about getting a 2012 model as a bike for me when I’m not taking the mrs on the back.

 

[jimupahill]

Thank you

Dear all
thank you for all the replies. Thank you for taking the time to write lots of detail; very helpful indeed. I take on board especially the comments about the earlier and later LC's. When I bought Bertie my 2010 GSA TC I knew I was getting the 'last' of the oilheads and therefore it should be well sorted. By and large I was right, it got me and Jenny round the world and never broke down (never got a puncture either - thank you Heidenau K60's!) It wasn't cheap to run though. Before we went the rear shock damping went at 22,000 miles and turned the bike into a pogo stick in Spain. The use of a towel rolled up and wrapped into the spring (The SHITE system - Secondary Hydraulic Inhibited Towel Enhancement) got us home to UK. Subsequent fitting of front and rear Wilburs suspension with REVS of Halesowen and also careful subsequent pre-trip prep like putting a new clutch in and on our last trip a new driveshaft pre UK to Australia also helped. Out on the road we had the failure of the FD in Cottbus in the old East Germany (€ 1,700) but didn't stop us and much easier, the failure of the side stand cut out switch (split the sensor cable, cut orange and white and join them together to disable) in Chile were all solvable. Dropped the bike (& the wife) more times than I care to remember but it just kept going. Fuel injection also a boon with amazingly good fuel consumption at altitude (but loss of power) and amazingly bad fuel consumption when head butting huge winds in Patagonia. All in all, a good bike. Time now to replace it; #feelingemotional ! Thanks again for all the advice and the time you spent writing it - merry xmas one and all and here's to a full resumption of all our 2 wheeled travels in 2021.

 

[Boxerlust]

Jimupahill...I also had various 1200 hex/camheads I dearly loved.When BMW switched to water-cooling in 2013 I was as appalled as Porsche owners were when their beloved aircooled boxers went to water-cooling.But after 5 long years I finally gave in and bought a 2017 TB-1200 GSA trading in my beloved 2012 TB-1200 GSA.I liked the handling with bigger tires that gave a bigger foot-print.I liked that the engine did not over-heat in stop & go traffic.I liked that the throttle bodies always stayed perfectly synchronized and the fact that the clutch was wet and coult not cause costly repairs when the old bike had to be split because of a leaky rear main seal.I just did not like the fact that the engine did not feel faster.Get the 1250 GS and you won't have this problem and a much better bike than the old aircooled one.Reliability has never been a problem...Only had to replace the battery due to the fact that I did not ride it enough this year...Ptty much one 6K mile holiday trip and then only short distances every 2-3 weeks and then park it for 3 month...It still started but the battery felt weak.

 

[jimupahill]

Boxerlust - Tks for your thoughts/experiences.
FWIW I can highly recommend Odyssey heavy duty batteries. Gave me the extra 'turning' power I needed in cold poor conditions and then later, in Sucre Bolivia, when the bike wouldn't start (almost definitely dirty fuel) and I had to turn it over a heck of a lot before it ran, the battery did it (just!) where the standard battery would have undoubtedly died. It was a tighter fit than the standard battery in the battery box of my 2010 GSA and therefore a bit of a sod to get back out but perfectly doable with a bit of patience.

 

[Roberto]

Some really interesting views here and very helpful

I think 2021 will be bringing me a new bike, but from some of the thoughts shared here I don't think its going to be an LC. Whilst I'm sure its a great bike, just likely not for me; I like the laziness and character of the Hexhead and that looks to be gone.

 

[Boxerlust]

Jimupahill...I don't think Odyssey makes a batterie that will fit the LC boxers... Otherwise the 1250 LC is better than the hex/cam head boxers in every way.More power more torque no throttle bodies to synchronize and wet clutch with easy access in case something goes wrong.Also better handling;more stable and quicker steering.If you get the regular GS get the sports-suspension which is 20 mm taller has stiffer springs and a slighter shorter T-L arm which is quicker steering due to less trail.Same as the ADV.
Roberto the 1250 has more of the lazy torque right off idle than even the camhead ! With a Akra EU-3 better sound and character,too.Much more power from 6000 rpm too.The 1250 despite what some people say who don't want to spend the money feels completely different , is mechanically much quieter (not quieter as in exhaust sound but less mechanical noise coming from the engine) and has much more TORQUE and power from 6000 rpm on on than the 1200 GS ! 84 cc more and 2 cam profiles one optimized for low and mid range TORQUE and one for more top end power will do that
Not to say a R1300 or 1400 GS would be even better

 

[Santa-2512]

Jimupahill...I don't think Odyssey makes a batterie that will fit the LC boxers...:

They do


Its the same battery that fits the hexhead.

depending on which year LC you but, you may need to remove the upper battery tray

Odyssey provide links to the "how to threads" on there website

(its just mods to the fins again )