10 years with an oil head. Considering the LC
SAnta I could not find anything on the Odyssey side fitting the 1200/1250GS or how to videos to make them fit...Which Odyssey battery is it ? Back in the day I used the PC680 in ny 1100/1150GS...Thanks !
the key thing here is to LEASE it and then put in a skip at 2 years.
Sadly every manufacturer has gone this route, and to help make it work everything is designed to die in not very long at all. If rich enough you will have no stress and no issues and still love the brand, if you buy approved used it will be a dog, that will be a nightmare to your wellbeing and wallet. Clearly the idea is its supposed to reach 4 years so the second owner still gets to love the brand, but the accountants and the engineers fight like 3 year olds.... and the accountants won BIG TIME
I was looking at a tatty 40k 10 year air cooled the other day, the rocker covers look like new, then next to it a tidy 8k mile 2 year old LC and the covers where chipped and rotting. The coating just can't cope. Its just budget crap dressed to thrill.
Botus of course in these dark days of globalism where the banksters and profits for the few stand above everything long time quality has taken a beating...But it is not as bad as you say.10 years ago the quality hasn't been any better or worse and I still see lots of R1200GS that are now 10-15 years old in good shape ridden every week.Of course not much rain or salt here.But I say that the new 1250GS are better and more reliable/cheaper to maintain than the 1200GS they made 15 years ago;
-No more gear box oil to change
-No more throttle bodies to adjust
-No more costly splits to get to the clutch
-No more leaky seals (RMS,balance shaft,gear box) that can cause costly repairs
-No electric servos on brakes that can cause costly repairs later
Much better paint or castings and higher quality plastics than you get from the japanese...
The old 2-V stuff was less reliable with diode boards getting bad,u-joints on the shaft,valve seats that wore prematurely,constand throttle body and valve adjustments and leaky pushrod seals or camchains that streched and needed to be replaced every 40K miles or carburetor diaphrams getting bad causing the slides not to open properly.
Not to mention having no power,wobbly frames and no brakes...
The new stuff is much better & more reliable !
-No more gear box oil to change
-No more throttle bodies to adjust
-No more costly splits to get to the clutch
-No more leaky seals (RMS,balance shaft,gear box) that can cause costly repairs
-No electric servos on brakes that can cause costly repairs later
Much better paint or castings and higher quality plastics than you get from the japanese...
The old 2-V stuff was less reliable with diode boards getting bad,u-joints on the shaft,valve seats that wore prematurely,constand throttle body and valve adjustments and leaky pushrod seals or camchains that streched and needed to be replaced every 40K miles or carburetor diaphrams getting bad causing the slides not to open properly.
Not to mention having no power,wobbly frames and no brakes...
The new stuff is much better & more reliable !
Botus of course in these dark days of globalism where the banksters and profits for the few stand above everything long time quality has taken a beating...But it is not as bad as you say.10 years ago the quality hasn't been any better or worse and I still see lots of R1200GS that are now 10-15 years old in good shape ridden every week.Of course not much rain or salt here.But I say that the new 1250GS are better and more reliable/cheaper to maintain than the 1200GS they made 15 years ago;
-No more gear box oil to change
-No more throttle bodies to adjust
-No more costly splits to get to the clutch
-No more leaky seals (RMS,balance shaft,gear box) that can cause costly repairs
-No electric servos on brakes that can cause costly repairs later
Much better paint or castings and higher quality plastics than you get from the japanese...
The old 2-V stuff was less reliable with diode boards getting bad,u-joints on the shaft,valve seats that wore prematurely,constand throttle body and valve adjustments and leaky pushrod seals or camchains that streched and needed to be replaced every 40K miles or carburetor diaphrams getting bad causing the slides not to open properly.
Not to mention having no power,wobbly frames and no brakes...
The new stuff is much better & more reliable !
If you think the paint is better you must be joking. If you live in the UK you can watch it rot away in front of your eyes.
My 2007RT had lots of corrosion on most of the aluminium parts
I was going to add that...
Hopefully, the alternators fail less often than hexhead clutches - mine cost £850 to replace.
they got you didn't they
they are almost indescribably worse in every manner these days - all german built stuff has been engineered to a pre described death rate for way more than 10 years. the cycle is ever faster.
yes they can do big miles inside 3 years... but then everything self destructs. A new merc will be lucky to reach 3 years and then still be on the road in an economically viable manner. I suspect a GS will reach 5 but will look tatty and be very costly shortly after that
when mine went back inside a month it had rust on fastenings inside on the threads and it had NEVER been in the rain !!!
of course if you buy enough spares it'll keep going. But do the maths, you'll find that would have seen you through 4 years of leasing two newer bikes...
(the law says all vehicles in Europe has to have parts available for 7 years). funny isn't it a 40 year old jap bike still just works, yet they only had to support for 3 years in their home market
I must say, when I read the Forum, I some times wonder, are we really debating bikes from the same factory?
All this talk about rust, paint peeling off and on and on. For some reason, this has not been my experience at all with the bikes from BMW, and I have owned several of them, the oldest being a -73. The ones I've had are usually traded in when reaching 60k, but I've had bikes reaching 90k without any issues beyond changing wear items.
As for parts availability, I can still get most of the parts for my -75, if ever needed...
Is there any chance that the Germans are getting back at you for beating their ass in the war?
Gossy
Registered user
Were the 2010 bikes oilheads, thought they changed in 2005 from oilhead to hexhead - just a thought.
https://youtu.be/5dgI_SVOPAw
Heres a link to a 100,000 mile review of a 2015 - no major problems, just renewables and acceptable mile related repairs.
I have a Hex Head with 47K miles and no issues.
My wife has a 14 LC, with 32K miles, only issue was a rear shock rebuild - as someone said DeanZo (or whatever) on here is excellent to deal with and GVFM.
Some people have already mentioned the ergonomics and its a big factor for us - I dont like riding the LC , my knees hit the cylinder heads and I feel cramped - Im fairly tall.
My wife is 59 with a 32 inside leg and fits perfectly with the seat on its high setting. She prefers the slight forward lean also.
She had parallel twin engined bikes for the previous 14 years and didnt like my 1100gs engine at all and is not keen on the Hex Head either. She likes, very much, her LC as the engine has a different feel to it.
The LC has better fuel economy and is cheaper to service.
We are not good bike washers but I do lather them in WD40 (or equivalent) after every wash. My bike has no paintwork issues. The LC has a little bit of bubbling here and there but only under close inspection. We tend to keep our bikes for a long time (I had my 1100 for 19 years and she had a TDM 900 for 10 years) so neither of us are too bothered about aesthetics - we do look after them well mechanically though.
I hope this comparison helps.
Heres a link to a 100,000 mile review of a 2015 - no major problems, just renewables and acceptable mile related repairs.
I have a Hex Head with 47K miles and no issues.
My wife has a 14 LC, with 32K miles, only issue was a rear shock rebuild - as someone said DeanZo (or whatever) on here is excellent to deal with and GVFM.
Some people have already mentioned the ergonomics and its a big factor for us - I dont like riding the LC , my knees hit the cylinder heads and I feel cramped - Im fairly tall.
My wife is 59 with a 32 inside leg and fits perfectly with the seat on its high setting. She prefers the slight forward lean also.
She had parallel twin engined bikes for the previous 14 years and didnt like my 1100gs engine at all and is not keen on the Hex Head either. She likes, very much, her LC as the engine has a different feel to it.
The LC has better fuel economy and is cheaper to service.
We are not good bike washers but I do lather them in WD40 (or equivalent) after every wash. My bike has no paintwork issues. The LC has a little bit of bubbling here and there but only under close inspection. We tend to keep our bikes for a long time (I had my 1100 for 19 years and she had a TDM 900 for 10 years) so neither of us are too bothered about aesthetics - we do look after them well mechanically though.
I hope this comparison helps.
Botus I don't want to defend the shareholder value/profit driven capitalist/corporate global system we have to endure today that is all for the few banksters who run the stock market...But BMW motorcycle quality is not as bad as you say.The paint is water based because of the environmental wackos who also want to outlaw the ICEngine to change to the electric stuff that is BOORING and even more polluting (toxic batteries production & waste in 10 years) as also dirty or dangerous power-plants...Don't get me started.I see 10 year old hex- or camhead 1200 BMW's or K1200/1300 models that still look and drive like new.Same with the now up to 8 year old LC boxers...English weather with lots of rain and salt may be too much and can cause corrosion especially if you live on the coast and leave the bike outside...But all the stuff from japan or italy is even worse when you look at the cheap castings,thin plastics that often has even sharp edges from cheap molds and even thinner paint that will rub off on the tank after a few rides...You have to keep it all in perspective instead of only bashing BMW...Of course they have done a lot of bad shit.
- The R Nine T still after 8 years no T-L,factory hardbags,centerstand or tubed wheels on their flagship version...THat is just plain stupid.
- The new XR less mid-range power than the old one.
- Still no R 1250 S boxer with T-L as sporty & practical as the R 1100 S...
- No 17" XR version of the R 1250 GS...
- Chinese engines in their F 750/850/900 line...
- R 18 boat-anchors no one seem to want in times when Harley can't even unload their junk and tries their luck with bad copies of the GS...
At least the GS , RT and M1000RR are the benchmarks in their segments.
Even if the GS needs more power if the competition from austria and italy has 20-30 more top-end hp.Do we need it ?
Probably not but a top-end rush is always fun and kills the last argument for not buying a GS over a 1290 SADV-S or MS V-4
- The R Nine T still after 8 years no T-L,factory hardbags,centerstand or tubed wheels on their flagship version...THat is just plain stupid.
- The new XR less mid-range power than the old one.
- Still no R 1250 S boxer with T-L as sporty & practical as the R 1100 S...
- No 17" XR version of the R 1250 GS...
- Chinese engines in their F 750/850/900 line...
- R 18 boat-anchors no one seem to want in times when Harley can't even unload their junk and tries their luck with bad copies of the GS...
At least the GS , RT and M1000RR are the benchmarks in their segments.
Even if the GS needs more power if the competition from austria and italy has 20-30 more top-end hp.Do we need it ?
Probably not but a top-end rush is always fun and kills the last argument for not buying a GS over a 1290 SADV-S or MS V-4
we can debate quality forever and not reach consensus....
maths might be simpler
borrow 21k to buy a bike then have to get the servicing to maintain the warranty, then buy extended warranty and get the big service costs after year 3... all the while regardless of who says what, modern bikes are churned out at such a rate with new extras every 12 months, your 5 year old bike is now worthless... so 30k down the pan
lease a bike and refresh ever 2 years, 5k deposit, 260 a month (guessing) 48 months, 250 servicing on both bikes 4 years in its cost you 18k
go to a big ducati dealer, everyone leases them and the have 100 worthless secondhand bikes round the corner... BMW is just the same, except they hide the bikes and sell on when someone rings up as there's still a misjudged desire for an approved used BM. Ducati's just put the warranty to 4 years on all and a 19" front on a v4 GS style bike
maths might be simpler
borrow 21k to buy a bike then have to get the servicing to maintain the warranty, then buy extended warranty and get the big service costs after year 3... all the while regardless of who says what, modern bikes are churned out at such a rate with new extras every 12 months, your 5 year old bike is now worthless... so 30k down the pan
lease a bike and refresh ever 2 years, 5k deposit, 260 a month (guessing) 48 months, 250 servicing on both bikes 4 years in its cost you 18k
go to a big ducati dealer, everyone leases them and the have 100 worthless secondhand bikes round the corner... BMW is just the same, except they hide the bikes and sell on when someone rings up as there's still a misjudged desire for an approved used BM. Ducati's just put the warranty to 4 years on all and a 19" front on a v4 GS style bike
My GSA is ten years old and I also have this quandary, do I go for a GS, a GSA or heavens above go for the 1250RT or even look outside BMW. The trouble is I want a big twin with shaft drive, decent tank size and range, large luggage capacity for when SWMBO is onboard and all day comfort. When you take all of that criteria there is not a huge amount of options out there.
Botus I would never lease a bike...To be honest I buy a new bike every 3 years...By then I get bored and want something new and the bikes roughly have 30-40K miles on it.I get roughly 50% of the origional value and the next guy gets a bike for half of the origional cost that will serve him well for another 10 years up to 100K miles...THe boxers are that good and then you throw them away.I get your point but it is not as bad as you say.I think I'm not wrong when I say that BMW boxers are build to 10 year/100K mile reliability standards.I don't think ou can say that about Ducatis or KTMs which are more like playtoys and they still don't offer what makes the BMW Boxer a bike without any competition on the market and the japanese have no options at all anymore except they own the 125-400 cc 3rd world mass market.There is no alternative to a Boxer that will protect bike/rider in case of a accident,shaft drive and Telelever that is so much better than any bike with a fork...
I paid 15K cash for a new 30yr GSA in 2010. Sold it in 2019 for £5,500 with 75k miles. Depreciation just over 1k per year. I don’t think that was too bad. For me personally I’ve always done the maths and it it’s always worked out cheaper to purchase both my cars and bikes rather than pcp or lease. Also because I do quite a lot of miles pcp doesn’t work for me.
It’s so cheap to borrow money at approx 3% at the moment why would you pay more interest on a pcp and be restricted on mileage.
Speaking to a BMW dealer a few weeks ago he said that he is in a region where the majority of their customers are old school and 80% of customers buy the bike outright which BMW head office are not happy with as they make less money. He said that there are also a few other areas in the UK like Wales where customers again are old school, do the maths and actually pay outright for the bike either cash or cheap loan from their own bank but again BMW head office don’t like it and train their staff to push customers down the pcp route of possible. He agreed it’s cheaper to buy the bike outright or with a cheap loan if you can afford it.
Cheers
It’s so cheap to borrow money at approx 3% at the moment why would you pay more interest on a pcp and be restricted on mileage.
Speaking to a BMW dealer a few weeks ago he said that he is in a region where the majority of their customers are old school and 80% of customers buy the bike outright which BMW head office are not happy with as they make less money. He said that there are also a few other areas in the UK like Wales where customers again are old school, do the maths and actually pay outright for the bike either cash or cheap loan from their own bank but again BMW head office don’t like it and train their staff to push customers down the pcp route of possible. He agreed it’s cheaper to buy the bike outright or with a cheap loan if you can afford it.
Cheers
PCP suite they way factories need to operate....
random bike sales, then massive spikes around Aug / Sept are a nightmare... you either build stock at great cost, that may not sell, or convert buyers in to a lease scheme. That way every few years you know when that customer needs a new bike.... thus you know exactly how many to make when, maintain low stocks and a steady workforce always operating bang on the numbers = much cheaper (the whole pipeline wins and the planet dies.)
its easy to get there... convert the buyers by adding trinkets every year (devaluing their old pride and joy - by making them obsolete / less desirable), then build with engineered in failures in the basic design, deliberately making them uneconomical to keep on the road. The idea is first owner never notices, second owner pays top dollar for what he thinks is a bargain, keeps paying to year 5 or 6 the extended warranty then all hell breaks loose... if he chopped in at 6 might get away with it and the third buyer gets stung - and ends up buying a new bike in spares, but he's the type that's never buying a new one so Manu doesn't care what happens to him. He's a low life no one is ever going to listen too as he complains / suffers.
That's where we've been for the last 10 to 15 years, The change is the current garbage. They got greedy, the world got messed up, even one's stealing so why should they, hence change from 7 to 5 years to death. That way you can even make all the paint and finishes half as thick (more savings and pretend environmental benefits). Just wait till your 5 to 7 year old LC needs a few ECUs at £1500 plus fitting every 6 months you'll soon swap
the shift cam actuator has a alleged design life of 60k miles (and I expect 5 years), so how much do they cost 600 a pop ? ABS modules are the same they ever were (not counting the old garbage from 2004 that was unfixable drivel), but since 2007 its the same bit on all BMs and all cars worldwide with the same designed in failures. Cheap brushes that gum up and stick. 7 year failure happens on all of them. My 2011 K1300 I got approved used had one at 12k miles, just before I bought it.
My S class popped its ABS sensors to time, just like every single one worldwide does... its a bit of copper wire that should last at least 100 years, but magically they all go at 8 year mark to perfection (its almost to the minute). Germany spends more time designing how they should fail than the do on anything else. My GS had popped its ABS twice, the heated grips fail to time, then the fuel pump, hit the 7 year mark and they are ticking time bombs. It all like clockwork... they practice Alchemy for their economic benefit… its just sick and should be illegal. The new ideas are even better, Mercedes keep getting caught with their hands in the till with "odd software bugs" that accidentally create issues. But the EU keep noticing and they get told off
There's a reason most BM dealerships say "Oh you've got a proper GS" when you say you still have an air-cooled one. Most of it is survivable with some TLC, the new stuff its like the tape on Mission impossible. I did write a post a while back... the silver bevel and swing arm bike's seem to have a superior grade of metal, the darker grey ones seem to degrade in front of your eyes... what I've seen is that's across all the models. K1600 crank cases anyone.... even the Chinese would be disgraced by the metal and finish used on there
random bike sales, then massive spikes around Aug / Sept are a nightmare... you either build stock at great cost, that may not sell, or convert buyers in to a lease scheme. That way every few years you know when that customer needs a new bike.... thus you know exactly how many to make when, maintain low stocks and a steady workforce always operating bang on the numbers = much cheaper (the whole pipeline wins and the planet dies.)
its easy to get there... convert the buyers by adding trinkets every year (devaluing their old pride and joy - by making them obsolete / less desirable), then build with engineered in failures in the basic design, deliberately making them uneconomical to keep on the road. The idea is first owner never notices, second owner pays top dollar for what he thinks is a bargain, keeps paying to year 5 or 6 the extended warranty then all hell breaks loose... if he chopped in at 6 might get away with it and the third buyer gets stung - and ends up buying a new bike in spares, but he's the type that's never buying a new one so Manu doesn't care what happens to him. He's a low life no one is ever going to listen too as he complains / suffers.
That's where we've been for the last 10 to 15 years, The change is the current garbage. They got greedy, the world got messed up, even one's stealing so why should they, hence change from 7 to 5 years to death. That way you can even make all the paint and finishes half as thick (more savings and pretend environmental benefits). Just wait till your 5 to 7 year old LC needs a few ECUs at £1500 plus fitting every 6 months you'll soon swap
the shift cam actuator has a alleged design life of 60k miles (and I expect 5 years), so how much do they cost 600 a pop ? ABS modules are the same they ever were (not counting the old garbage from 2004 that was unfixable drivel), but since 2007 its the same bit on all BMs and all cars worldwide with the same designed in failures. Cheap brushes that gum up and stick. 7 year failure happens on all of them. My 2011 K1300 I got approved used had one at 12k miles, just before I bought it.
My S class popped its ABS sensors to time, just like every single one worldwide does... its a bit of copper wire that should last at least 100 years, but magically they all go at 8 year mark to perfection (its almost to the minute). Germany spends more time designing how they should fail than the do on anything else. My GS had popped its ABS twice, the heated grips fail to time, then the fuel pump, hit the 7 year mark and they are ticking time bombs. It all like clockwork... they practice Alchemy for their economic benefit… its just sick and should be illegal. The new ideas are even better, Mercedes keep getting caught with their hands in the till with "odd software bugs" that accidentally create issues. But the EU keep noticing and they get told off
There's a reason most BM dealerships say "Oh you've got a proper GS" when you say you still have an air-cooled one. Most of it is survivable with some TLC, the new stuff its like the tape on Mission impossible. I did write a post a while back... the silver bevel and swing arm bike's seem to have a superior grade of metal, the darker grey ones seem to degrade in front of your eyes... what I've seen is that's across all the models. K1600 crank cases anyone.... even the Chinese would be disgraced by the metal and finish used on there
I had the same thought last August. I ended up with a Goldwing. 4200 miles on it now and Im enjoying more every time i get it out. You may think about test riding one .
Couldn't stretch to a new one at the price they are but maybe a second hand one.
There are deals available at the right dealers.
