1150GS cut out and wont restart

[johnlouiscross]

Got 500 yds up the road from a pals house and my 1999 1150 GS cut out without warning. Coasted back down the hill into his drive. It has failed to restart since despite turning over well on a strong battery. The engine is not completely lifeless and sometimes feels like it might almost start.
All visible electrics seem fine with all instruments working ok.
Checks so far: Sidestand switch tested and ok. No erratic rev counter flutter when trying to start (which might point away from Hall sensor failure?). Spark at both plugs (coil ok?). When the ignition is switched on the fuel pump buzzes then stops as normal. I fitted an external fuel filter about 400 miles ago and there seems to be plenty of fuel getting through to the motor side of the filter. I filled up with fuel 40 miles before the incident.
The bike has run perfectly for all of its 14000 miles right up until the second it cut out. It didn't feel like a complete electric failure cut out - the nose diving one you get if you hit the kill switch, more of a whimpering (but not spluttering) stop.
Any ideas?
Tonight I will try constricting the the fuel tank return hose just in case the fuel pressure regulator is just dumping fuel back to the tank.
Is there anything else I should be checking?
Thanks.
John

 

[Gecko]

Have you got any kind of alarm / immobilser fitted ?

 

[Alex]

Have you checked all connections to cables? ie air flow meter, ecu, throttle position etc.

 

[Taipan]

Had you just done anything to the bike, washed it, worked on it etc?

 

[johnlouiscross]

No alarm or immobiliser fitted, Had the tank off and did a general check of connectors (esp Hall sensor one). Will do again and be a bit more systematic. Bike got washed 2 years ago but had been ridden for 3 town miles in rain the day before it stopped but had done 80 dry miles that evening and been parked in an airy garage for 24 hours after that.
I had the headlight out to fit a homemade oil cooler guard a month or two a go but have done a couple of hundred miles since then.
Fuel return hose did not feel like it pressurised when I squeezed it while cranking the bike. Is this correct?
Thanks.
John

 

[MIKE R]

Had a similar problem on a Yamaha once. Turned out to be water in the petrol that had gathered around the take off pipe. Was cured by shaking the bike 'vigourously' from side to side for a couple of minutes.

Only a very slight chance that this is your problem, but you never know.

Mike R

 

[(RIP) Kaister]

I filled up with fuel 40 miles before the incident.
The bike has run perfectly for all of its 14000 miles right up until the second it cut out.

Water in the fuel ? , Bad fuel ?, wrong fuel ? ,

Drain it all out - or pump it out on the kill switch.
Stick known good stuff in.

Are the plugs black or wet ?

Get a battery booster and use it to keep the engine turning over on full throttle for a min at least. It may start

 

[johnlouiscross]

Water in the fuel sounds likely. I have had a recurring problem with the fuel filler cap drain hose - the one that should take away the water that collects around the sides of the cap when it rains or you wash the bike. It goes from the filler to the pump body and then through the pump body via a rigid pipe which continually corrodes and blocks. If you open the fuel filler after riding in rain you see any collected water go straight into the tank which is quite reassuring! I now blow this pipe through periodically to try and keep it clear but if it blocks it is a tank off and pump out job and some fiddling with wire to clear it.
I will drain the fuel this weekend - 35 litres of it in a Touratech tank! Luckily the tank balance pipes make this an easy job if you can round up enough containers.
Thanks again.
John

 

[johnlouiscross]

All connectors checked, all fuel drained out and replaced with fresh stuff and a new fuel filter fitted. Still no joy. After cranking the plugs look dry so I am starting to suspect that no fuel is getting through to the injectors.
As mentioned above the fuel pump sounds like it is working. The Haynes manual for the 850/1100 (93 to 97) says that fuel flows from the pump continuosly when the ignition is on (chapter 8 section 24). Testing mine (1150GS) pumping into a jar, fuel flows only until the initial ignition-on buzzing stops and you get around 50ml. If you crank the bike over fuel starts to flow continuously again. Can anyone confirm that this is as it should be?
Thanks
John

 

[johnlouiscross]

Just been out and cranked the bike again after charging the battery and have some life. Bike will now tick over very badly for about 5 seconds (after using full throttle and choke and then keeping the starter going after shutting those off). I can keep it going between 1500/200 revs for a short period but only by moving the throttle quickly back and forth continually. It might be pushing the last of some dirty fuel/water through but it sounds more like the timing might be out out (valve or ign). Plenty of induction noise from the airbox but that might only be more noticeable because the seat is off. Both cylinders/exhausts are getting equally hot so I don't think the problem is with just one cylinder.
John

 

[cookie]

Testing mine (1150GS) pumping into a jar, fuel flows only until the initial ignition-on buzzing stops and you get around 50ml. If you crank the bike over fuel starts to flow continuously again. Can anyone confirm that this is as it should be?
Thanks
John

i think that's right. it just pressurises the injectors, then pump stops until the engine starts.

 

[Timolgra]

Think you should check compression

 

[johnlouiscross]

Sorted.
After finding that the bike would almost run attention turned away from electrics and back to the external fuel filter mod. Took out the pump and found the connector had all but pushed off the end of the length of copper pipe that replaced the filter. It would deliver fuel all day into my jam jar but as soon as there was any back pressure it just moved a bit against the stiffness of the hose and dumped fuel back into the tank. Have flared the ends of the copper and put on some decent clips. Confidence in my GS still intact - but in future must take more care with any mods....
Thanks for all the posts - much learned.
John

 

[Steptoe]

This is the trouble with these type of threads, i know everyones trying to help , you could have posted up different opinions till the cows come home, and you still wouldn't have solved the problem.

no one would have suggested checking the secureness of your fuel filter mod in the tank - Because no one knew anything about it.

 

[johnlouiscross]

This is the trouble with these type of threads, i know everyones trying to help , you could have posted up different opinions till the cows come home, and you still wouldn't have solved the problem.

no one would have suggested checking the secureness of your fuel filter mod in the tank - Because no one knew anything about it.

Steptoe
Please read the first post:
"I fitted an external fuel filter about 400 miles ago and there seems to be plenty of fuel getting through to the motor side of the filter."
John

 

[Steptoe]

Steptoe
Please read the first post:
"I fitted an external fuel filter about 400 miles ago and there seems to be plenty of fuel getting through to the motor side of the filter."
John

Yes - But WTF is a piece of copper pipe doinng in the tank ???? -

Why not use a section of high pressure fuel hose ( the BMW hose that is made for use inside fuel tanks), and keep the amount of joins to two -

less is more -

The symptoms you initially described, could be fuel filter problem symptoms, someone mentioned try changing the filter, and did, and it made no difference, soi hept out of it - but you hadn't said you'd decided to have a laugh by fitting a section of copper pipe into your fuel system

AND, you've still got it fitted - lesson not learnt

 

[johnlouiscross]

For future ref does anyone have a method for checking that the fuel pressure is adequate?

 

[(RIP) Kaister]

99 times out of a hundred the problem with a bike is due to something that has recently been fitted or changed.

This also means servicing , adding accessories or generally fcking about.

if you just leave them, don't service them even ? - they'll go forever.


You see it in the trade all the time.. bodging - its called !

.....or operator error