1150GSA ECU question (hilltop) returning to stock exhaust

[steele01]

Hi everyone hope we are all well just wondering if I can pick the brains on the collective knowledge base off ukgser.

I'm currently in the process of returning my 2004 1150GSA Back to stock.

The bike when I had it had the following k&n, Y Piece which was running with the o2 senor in place, and some sort of straight through can with double exits n the bottom one blocked off Running straight through on the top one.
It's got some print out's from Hilltop back in 2010 of dyno pulls when I assume the exhaust was fitted.

Bike ran great,

I've just refitted a stock exhaust silencer, cat o2 sensor, and am waiting to pick a stock air filter up when it get's in at the dealers. Not fired her up t

Now bearing in mind although I'm 34 I'm more familiar with whitworth spanners, Norton's an jets + plug chops lol

What's the crack with the ECU's on the 1150, where should I be looking to see what's been done would it be a chip in the motronic ecu? or software.

I had a look to see if there's an coding plugs under the seat, an it's got none installed.

Has anyone done anything similar removing a system, and going back to a stock setup is the ECU sophisticated enough to adapt back to the stock exhaust? With whatever hilltop would have done back in the day?

Just wondering how others would approach it, I have loaded maps on a 675 Daytona in the past but I had the Triumph software at the time.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated

Many Thanks

 

[Mad Hatter]

Do a search for GS John or John Gemini on here and discover everything you need to know about fitting upgrade chips to R1150’s

 

[steele01]

Thanks Mad Hatter I'll have a read up on that, was that the only way to change the mapping back then on the 1150 ecu's?

I'm more familiar with much later stuff like the 675s where you could load maps on via software to flash an ecu fuel map, was it a case of changing a physical chip with the 1150 motronic Ecu.

Am even more familiar with jets an Nortons lol.

 

[DrFarkoff]

Its just a Flashed Original Chip, It "should" adapt to the change in "accessories" from the sensor inputs IN reality it is just a big calculator that sees Air intake temp V Rpm V throttle position sensor and fuels off a 3D map
John just tweaks some values to even out the glitches that were in the OE programming, There was allegedly a flat spot just where the TUV would do a ride by sound level recording at X rpm

My advice is to Try it out before you dump it Its just a map when he basically ironed out a couple of imperfections on a dyno run
You don't even need to take the chip out you can swap in an ECU from a similar age model of bike

They are not "coded" to keys and clocks as the later models were

(The Frame number of the donor bike may be stored in the ECU I know it is in the ABS module but never had to change one of those at work)

 

[steele01]

Cheers Dr Farkoff really appreciate the reply been reading up on the stuff Mad Hatter mentioned as well very interesting stuff.

Thanks for the suggestions that's a good tip regards another ECU or Johns chip If I have any issue with whatever was done back in the day by hilltop,

I'm guessing it'd be worth pulling fuse 5 to reset the adaptions, then key on throttle 0 to full 3 times then key off?

Thanks in advance,

 

[Steptoe]

I'm guessing it'd be worth pulling fuse 5 to reset the adaptions, then key on throttle 0 to full 3 times then key off?

Thanks in advance,

That doesn’t reset adaptations. It clears the ecu of the TPS parameters (i.e. throttle fully open and closed ) . The bike resets them itself after you’ve ridden it a couple of time. “Resetting adaptions” is more for the 1200 models and involves more than a TPS reset.

 

[steele01]

Ah thanks Steptoe appreciate the reply.

Understood

Just waiting on a clymer manual coming, I did get the BMW RepRom disc but it seems to just cover the general maintenance at service and nothing deeper. Has the 00 maitience chapter on it and the one for the crown wheel.

Which is a bit of a shame not sure if BMW ever did a more in depth manual.

Have you ever come across having to return one to stock Steptoe after they've been mapped?

If it had been the 675 I'd just have reloaded the map on my laptop an reset everything.

Thinking the best courses of action may be:

Get her warm n go for a ride / propper plug chops just for an indicator (assuming those are OK to do with a shaft drive) (bearing in mind my main knowledge base is chain driven Nortons) Then if all good good indicators go for a longer ride to a Dyno and see where everything is actually at. Was looking at a place over in Stoke on trent ran by a few TT lads.

Or Swap the Eprom Chip for a John Gemini if he does one for the stock bike or the BB chip.

It's a pain not knowing exactly what they tweaked on the runs bar a few dyno printouts I've got.

Other option is to Swap to another ECU.

I did ask Hilltop but they just said they hadn't done one for a long time on the 1150 and couldn't say exactly what had been done or not done bar it being a programme.

Hence coming to seek some advice from you all

If I'm understanding it correctly she could run rich dependant on what they altered or didn't alter at the mapping. With me going from a higher flow straight through system and a airfilter.

Now she's gone back to a stock setup air filter exhaust and cat. I'm just not sure (not clued up enough on modern FI) to know if it can adapt back to the stock exhaust with whatever the might have done.

Bit of thinking to do might just give her a run in the morning and see how she behaves. Bring back jets hey!

 

[alpsrider]

Why not try and contact the previous owner for details of what has been done?

 

[steele01]

Hi mate, hope you are keeping well, unfortunately the lad who owned her when this had been done had passed away,

to strip my longish post down,

Asked Hilltop who did the mapping and they were very vague about how it was done which I can understand if they've spent time developing stuff etc something about a programme but they havn't done one for a long time with the availability of eprom's.

I've got the dyno print outs from 2010 as those were in all the paperwork so I've sent it to them to ask if what they did would cope for the stock exhaust and air filter being more restrictive now in air so I'm assuming she'd run rich,

(if it was a carb bike I'd just change the jets)

With the FI though I'm not sure what capability the Motronic ECU has to chase itself back in.

Or if the bike now runs in closed loop all the time so will adjust (if I've got that the right way round), as the website says that what they do can adjust for the changes in filter and pipe but I'm not sure if that's applicable for the 1150 era off stuff assuming everything is above board compared to older posts I've read.

That's the main thing I'm trying to figure out, I guess the good thing is I'm going from a less restrictive setup (straight through exhaust + k&n) + some fuelling changes which had been altered at ECU level but in what ways still remains unclear, compared to a PCV or a normal Map flash like you would with the 675 where you could plug in save the map then load a new map which is all open and visible an easy to understand.

So following the logic from the older bikes I've worked on, more restrictive = less air = more fuel and a rich running situation.

So least it's going in that direction and not fitting a straight through system that was on with no alteration to the mapping.

When the plug spanner shows up tomorrow I might give her a run an look at the plug colour and see how it feels at least that should give me an indication and if it's running far to rich I'll look into a chip swap/ecu swap back to stock as the cheaper option.

Just wanna get back on the road as I'm loving riding it but thought I'd do some due diligence first before firing her up as I know there's some really knowledgeable people on here.

Think the plan of action is gonna be give it a spin in the morning and look at the plugs once the socket turns up.

 

[DrFarkoff]

before you do anything Check the TPS setting!!

Left side throttle body Poke a backprobe up from the bottom on the rear most wire usually Red with a white strip and +ve probe to that one and a GOOD ground for the -ve one

Volts DC on a half decent multimeter Look for about 0.38 / 0.4 V on closed throttle Ignition on, slacken the two x torx or 4mm allens and very slightly rotate the TPS until you get your value once you nip the bolts remember to flick the throttle a couple of times to see that it settles back near that value once running it will bounce around a little but is close enough

If that is badly out of spec, then the whole range is out (Basically telling the ECU how open the throttle is and when it is at idle!)

Once the Lamda comes into play it should lean out the mixture appropiately

 

[steele01]

Thanks Dr Farkoff really appreciate the reply I'll give it a double check, before I give the bike a whirl in the morning

 

[DrFarkoff]

p.s. It needs at last a half an hour of varied riding not just traffic or just motorway

A bit of a warm up and then let loose on safe to do so back roads and work the rev range and the gears

That will give the best results for you rather than just a spin up the road and back

Most welcome for advice Its now 24 year old tech But back then it was alomost Black magic for some

Flashing chips is just the done thing these days whereas back then it was an art I think that he found a way in and I think a lot of people were happy

As always you will get the nay sayers But Hey Ho!

If the bike rides how you feel comfortable? Then best to stand back and enjoy and leave well alone!

 

[steele01]

Will do thanks for the tips really appreciated got a decent route I usually take the Nortons on if I've had to faff with anything