1150gsa stalls at idle

[Green Boy]

Hi,

Fairly new to 1150gsa ownership and am trying to work out what is 'normal' for these bikes when starting from cold.

The bike is a 1150gsa twin spark '04 with 35k on the clock and before I bought it had been unused for about 6 months. The previous owner (a mate) rode it back from Switzerland without a problem. I haven't ridden it yet as have been going through the re-registration process with HMRC/ DVLA. However I've been running it up every week and have kept the battery conditioned with an optimate.

The 'problem' is that whilst it will start first time with max fast idle set, if I leave it to idle and warm up a bit it will always stall. It also makes a really loud knocking noise (transmission?) just before it stalls and the engine then starts to labour then dies. It will always restart first time. Fast idle seems to about 1400rpm and tick over is about 950-1000rpm when warm. It has been regularly serviced by a main dealer by the look of the service book.

Having spent a few hours trawling this site section to see what I can find, it appears that these bikes always sound a little 'agricultural' compared to a Jap bike but should it do this?

I've checked the throttle cable seating as per the picture that Steptoe et al have posted numerous times but that's fine. I've seen a number of posts ref coils breaking down and wondered if this is something that I should test.

Am fairly mechanically minded so happy to take stuff apart if that's the answer and do own/ know how to use a multi-meter.

Any ideas much appreciated.

 

[MikeP]

Cable-stretch I'd guess from what you've said.

Idle (warm) should be around 1100-1200 rpm but many prefer about 1000 rpm without any issues manifesting themselves.

My bike, same age, model and mileage doesn't seem to respond to the first-position of the choke (fast-idle) any more. That's down to cable-stretch.

As getting at the cables is a real pain, I just live with it. You can just hold the throttle open manually until it has warmed enough to idle on its own.

A throttle-lock will do the job of the choke/fast-idle for you. I have one of the type that allows you to stiffen-up the throttle action. I've always preferred a non-returning throttle so all I do open it a little before pressing the starter instead of yanking the choke-lever.

 

[DrFarkoff]

Don't leave it to Idle Get on it and ride it!

 

[filbe]

Don't leave it to Idle Get on it and ride it!

+1

 

[(RIP) Mark H]

Dont leave it to "warm up" its a really bad idea start it, ride it.

 

[denny]

Dont leave it to "warm up" its a really bad idea start it, ride it.

That goes for cars too.

Green Boy, I had a similar problem (+ occasional drop in revs while moving) turned out to be the coilpack ...

 

[MikeP]

Just wondering if any of those advising "just ride it" have read the post?

I haven't ridden it yet as have been going through the re-registration process with HMRC/ DVLA.

Now I don't let mine sit and idle before riding but I'm wondering what harm is done by letting it warm-up to the point where it will idle (sans choke) and without actually riding away?

I don't read anywhere in the OP that the bike is being left running on the stand for any length of time. What is the difference between doing what the OP says and doing what the rider's handbook says about letting it warm-up, waiting and then checking the oil level?

How about it running when TB balance is done? Should this be done on the move?

 

[(RIP) Mark H]

Just wondering if any of those advising "just ride it" have read the post?



Now I don't let mine sit and idle before riding but I'm wondering what harm is done by letting it warm-up to the point where it will idle (sans choke) and without actually riding away?

I don't read anywhere in the OP that the bike is being left running on the stand for any length of time. What is the difference between doing what the OP says and doing what the rider's handbook says about letting it warm-up, waiting and then checking the oil level?

How about it running when TB balance is done? Should this be done on the move?

Yep, I read the post of course, did you? ....." if I leave it to idle and warm up a bit " sort of gives it away

Quite simply boxers dont need warming up before riding, Its habit not to get into because it may be ok for dozens of times but one day you'l be distracted by something and the bike will be left idleing and forgotten.
Over the years I have read many reports of damage to engines, fairings, even fires caused by forgotten aircooled boxer engines left idling, I cant believe your not aware of this

 

[GhostCav]

How about the pulling the fuse & resetting the TPS thing. I had forgotten that when I put my new battery on. Reset it (pull fuse, put back in, ignition on <engine not running> & twist throttle to max on, max off a few times before turning ignition off, turn ignition on & start bike). Mine idled perfectly again after that.

Trying to remember what fuse it is now, is it 5th in or something.

 

[MikeP]

Yep, I read the post of course, did you? ....." if I leave it to idle and warm up a bit " sort of gives it away

I think he means that the moment he lets go of the choke/fast-idle it stalls.

Quite simply boxers dont need warming up before riding,

But the OP is not doing any riding is he?

Its habit not to get into because it may be ok for dozens of times but one day you'l be distracted by something and the bike will be left idleing and forgotten.

The OP cannot get into this "bad" habit as he doesn't seem able to get past the start-up.

Over the years I have read many reports of damage to engines, fairings, even fires caused by forgotten aircooled boxer engines left idling, I cant believe your not aware of this

Oh I'm aware of the stories but having left two-valve Boxers idling until the down-pipes glowed cherry-red without any mishap, I take them with a pinch of salt.

 

[(RIP) Mark H]

I think he means that the moment he lets go of the choke/fast-idle it stalls.

But the OP is not doing any riding is he?

The OP cannot get into this "bad" habit as he doesn't seem able to get past the start-up.

Oh I'm aware of the stories but having left two-valve Boxers idling until the down-pipes glowed cherry-red without any mishap, I take them with a pinch of salt.

I,m talking about general good practice here, not particularly the op

 

[MikeO]

I think he means that the moment he lets go of the choke/fast-idle it stalls.

But the OP is not doing any riding is he?

The OP cannot get into this "bad" habit as he doesn't seem able to get past the start-up.

Oh I'm aware of the stories but having left two-valve Boxers idling until the down-pipes glowed cherry-red without any mishap, I take them with a pinch of salt.

My 1150 ADV's headers will glow red within a couple of minutes of start-up - I found this out when trying to balance throttle bodies without using fans for cooling. The pipes were red hot and the oil temp had one bar showing - I would take the 'don't idle' advice (which I seem to remember is in the owner's manual) seriously...

 

[MikeP]

FFS.

The OP has asked about a problem he has getting his bike to idle. I offered my advice, then the "don't let it idle, get on and ride it" team chipped-in.

Not letting one idle for long if it's possible is reasonable advice but that isn't what the OP has been treated to is it?


Mike, "a couple of minutes"? Really?

I'd have thought that in the miles you've done, you'd have been in situations where your bike has become hotter and for longer but sitting on it doesn't afford a view of the glowing headers.

Mine, after a long slow, tortuous first-gear climb up a steep rocky track, were glowing nicely and it was when the oil pressure light started blinking at me that made me stop and allow the bike to cool down. The headers were glowing nicely, even in strong sunlight but I couldn't see them from the seat.

No-one is advocating a start-up and then settling down to watch TV while it idles away. Had the "anti-idle" advice been "once you get it to idle, don't leave it idling for more than a few minutes as it can cause over-heating" I doubt that this thread would have gone beyond four posts.

 

[MikeO]

Mike, "a couple of minutes"? Really?

Yep - it really surprised me.

I think you're taking all this a little personally Mike...

 

[MikeP]

I think you're taking all this a little personally Mike...

I'm just disappointed that someone can come here, explain that he's new to the bike, give a decent detailed account of his problem, he then gets responses that appear patronising and seem to miss the point entirely, not just once either.

 

[MikeO]

The 'problem' is that whilst it will start first time with max fast idle set, if I leave it to idle and warm up a bit it will always stall. It also makes a really loud knocking noise (transmission?) just before it stalls and the engine then starts to labour then dies. It will always restart first time.

GB, how long will it idle before it stalls generally? Will it continue to run if the cold start lever is at the lower of its two positions?

 

[Green Boy]

Thanks for the advice chaps and get the message ref not idling it for very long

Mike O: I'd say that from a cold start, if I start it using the fast idle lever and then return to the normal throttle position soon afterwards, it will stall within about 20 seconds.

I'm conscious that I haven't ridden it yet due to the re-registration/ insurance side of things so it may just be because it hasn't been ridden in a while. My guess is that if my mate rode it non stop from Zurich to Calais in an afternoon (long one), there can't be too much wrong with it.

 

[B4ndit]

On my beast I have never used the fast throttle lever yet. (One weeks ownership)

If you want to meet up to have two brains to solve your problems then I live in Basingstoke and am happy to meet up if I can be of help.

Just PM me.

 

[MikeO]

Thanks for the advice chaps and get the message ref not idling it for very long

Mike O: I'd say that from a cold start, if I start it using the fast idle lever and then return to the normal throttle position soon afterwards, it will stall within about 20 seconds.

I'm conscious that I haven't ridden it yet due to the re-registration/ insurance side of things so it may just be because it hasn't been ridden in a while. My guess is that if my mate rode it non stop from Zurich to Calais in an afternoon (long one), there can't be too much wrong with it.

OK, if I understand you correctly, you start with the cold start lever in its maximum position (you should have to hold it there, as it should spring back to the intermediate position) and soon afterwards (how soon?) you take the cold start off and the bike will then stall within 20 secs or so.

This is what my bike would do. I would have to have the cold start in the intermediate position for several minutes when riding, before being confident that the bike wouldn't stall if I came to a stop. As a rule of thumb I usually disengage the cold start lever once I have 20% showing on the oil temp...

Mike

 

[DrFarkoff]

Okay the easy answer is that :-

the "Fast Idle" opens the throttle discs/valves to allow enough air in to burn the fuel air mixture!

When the engine is "Cold" the ECU over injects fuel by approx 30% so that it runs

If you don't leave the fast idle in the mid position at a standstill it cannot burn the over rich mixture efficiently and bogs down and stalls It is not recommended to leave the bike on fast idle thus whilst the machine is at a standstill and in all instances you are recommended by BM to ride the bike immediately and NOT To let it idle to warm up Particularly on R1100 R1150 RT and RS full faired models!

So once moving you have enough throttle opening to allow air in to burn the fuel and warm the motor faster

Now the Crux of the matter is When was it last serviced it sounds like the throttles are set too low BUT The OP won't know until he rides it to full temp and observes the tickover rpm when hot which should be 1050 to 1150 rpm approximately for the pedants!

Now are we happy why we should ride the bike and NOT let it Idle to warm up?

Do we need ,more information

Okay the reason you particularly don't leave RT and RS to idle is that the plastic fairings are within 40 mm of the single skin hot exhaust and can Melt, Deform, and fall on the exhaust and catch FIRE!