1150gsa struggles to start

[zdaveuk]

My 2002 1150gsa has sat outside for a couple of days in the rain after a 150 mile ride on the motorway, came to start it today and it just turned over and over and did nt fire up, so luckily I live on a hill so I bump started down the hill, ran fine smooth.
then went to start it again and same again turned over and over but would nt fire up, battery drained, so connected spare battery to starter to start it and it fired up with throttle nearly fully open.

checked and changed spark plugs reset throttle, checked and cleaned starter motor, tried again same again turn over but would nt fire unless throttle was nearly wide open.

Took it for a run to replenish battery came back switched it off , turned key pressed button and same as before.

I`m of to France on sunday so really need some advice on something I may have missed or over looked

 

[John Armstrong]

I'd guess than unless the run was over a couple of hours it wouldn't have charged the battery up. IIRC an easy start on a car takes 15 mins to get it back to where it started.

I'd start by getting a new battery as it's probably shagged now.

Could water have got into the tank when it was outside?

 

[Colban]

I take it you've checked the throttle cable seating?.
Is it a twin-spark?.Possible coil breakdown/rain shorting.
Rainwater in fuel tank?.

 

[dancata]

I take it you've checked the throttle cable seating?.
Is it a twin-spark?.Possible coil breakdown/rain shorting.
Rainwater in fuel tank?.

check the HES; mine had the same simptoms when the upper HES failed

 

[zdaveuk]

battery is only 6 months old
single spark cables seated correctly

just took it for a run parked it and it started, gave the HT leads a squirt with WD40 so fingers crossed its been water ingress into electrics somewhere and run has given it the chance to dry out untill the next time

if it was water in fuel tank would nt that effect it when it was running ?

 

[Fanum]

I may well be wrong on this, but if the battery was completely flat, it's like pulling fuse 5 and the motronic needs to 're-learn' the throttle position when you re-start.

I wonder if you've effectively taught it that the zero throttle position is close to full open now, so it won't start unless it's like that?

reset it by charging the battery then either disconnecting it or pulling fuse 5....then reconnect battery/replace fuse, turn on ignition BUT DO NOT ATTEMPT TO START....twist throttle from fully closed to fully open twice, then turn off ignition......then turn it on again and try starting as NORMAL< WITH NO THROTTLE .

As I said, that may be completely wrong, but it's what I'd try next

 

[zdaveuk]

check the HES; mine had the same simptoms when the upper HES failed

HES ?? give me a clue please

 

[Hman]

HES ?? give me a clue please

hall effect sensor, behind fanbelt on front of engine

 

[zdaveuk]

hall effect sensor, behind fanbelt on front of engine

cheers been reading about that now

 

[zdaveuk]

went to start bike this morning , turns over but refuses to fire

so put ignition on and turned it over with a spanner on crank pulley and could hear fuel pump whinning as described in Steptoes HES check.

So took plugs out turned it over on starter and theres no spark at the plug

Am I correct in believing that Hall sensor hes 2 sensors 1 for fuel input and the other for spark?

if so does it mean the spark sensor has gone kaputt ?

or is it something alot more simple than that? I hope

 

[Steptoe]

as described in Steptoes HES check.

If the fuel pump doesn't energise it's almost certainly the hall sensor.

Now here's the thing..............
But if the fuel pump does energise, that doesn't mean it's not the hall sensor.

Is that clear.

 

[DrFarkoff]

When you do get it started what does it run like?

Normal or is it a lumpy bag of bolts?

The Hall sensors are linked together So you should get a spark if they are good

 

[MattW]

Am I correct in believing that Hall sensor has 2 sensors 1 for fuel input and the other for spark?

Yes. One does injection (both cylinders simultaneously via batch injection), one does ignition (both cylinders simultaneously with a wasted spark).

if so does it mean the spark sensor has gone kaputt ?

It's a definite maybe. But a failed HES isn't the only thing that'll give rise to no sparks.

Does your rev counter do weird things in addition to the symptoms you mention?

 

[Steptoe]

Check the fuel injector plug to see if it's getting a signal - you can use a bulb with a connection on the earth and pos on the bulb, and connect the other ends to the two plugs at the injector plug, same as a test lamp.

Or you can buy a "noide" that plugs in and flashes up when it gets a signal . Most car spare shops will have them ( take an injector along so they can see the connection), cost about £4, or you can buy a boxed set to fit most makes of vehicles.

Snap-on vans will also have them.

 

[dancata]

Yes. One does injection (both cylinders simultaneously via batch injection), one does ignition (both cylinders simultaneously with a wasted spark).

does this mean that no matter how you connect the spark plug wires to the ignition coil, the bike will run just fine?

 

[Deleted account W]

Or you can buy a "noide" that plugs in and flashes up when it gets a signal . Most car spare shops will have them ( take an injector along so they can see the connection), cost about £4, or you can buy a boxed set to fit most makes of vehicles.

Snap-on vans will also have them.

Would these be available through the GSshop is there was enough demand

 

[Steptoe]

does this mean that no matter how you connect the spark plug wires to the ignition coil, the bike will run just fine?

Yes -it can also be used as a method of tracking down faults, i.e. HT lead, coil, plugs, fuel electrical system.

 

[dancata]

went to start bike this morning , turns over but refuses to fire

so put ignition on and turned it over with a spanner on crank pulley and could hear fuel pump whinning as described in Steptoes HES check.

So took plugs out turned it over on starter and theres no spark at the plug

Am I correct in believing that Hall sensor hes 2 sensors 1 for fuel input and the other for spark?

if so does it mean the spark sensor has gone kaputt ?

or is it something alot more simple than that? I hope

there is another ~ simple way to check your sensors, only removeing the gas tank; you need a 9V battery, a LED, a ~550 ohms resistor and some wires.

follow the article on advrider about HES, get to the plastic connection on the right side of the tank.

the connection has 4 wires: +, -, upper HES signal and lower HES signal.

connect the battery to + and -, then the LED - terminal to battery - and the LED + terminal to lower HES signal; spin the engine by rear wheel wile in 5'th gear; now put the LED + terminal on the upper HES signal wire.

What you shoul see is that the LED's lit up when the 9V battery connected, and wile you spin the rear wheel, it should go out for a moment then lit again; if the LED does not light up with the same intensity for both HES, one of them is gone bad (the one that lights the LED poorly).

Note: on the connection you are testing, red is + and brown is -; other 2 wires are HES signals.

Thanks,
Dan.

 

[MattW]

does this mean that no matter how you connect the spark plug wires to the ignition coil, the bike will run just fine?

It should do but I've never connected them the wrong way round to try

 

[dancata]

Yes -it can also be used as a method of tracking down faults, i.e. HT lead, coil, plugs, fuel electrical system.

can you please detail this? a light bulb jut lit above me