1200 GSA Gearing

[Cole]

Hi Boys n Girls ... first time in here, and have just bought me a new 1200 Adventure ... just asking for the opinions of others ...

Considering it boasts an engine with a pretty flat torque curve between 3000 and 8000 rpm, is it just me who thinks the gearbox is ridiculously narrow?

I mean, I buy this bike to ride around the world and take whatever conditions come along in its stride, so I dont need a 1st gear that will get me in excess of 50 mph. But I do need a 1st gear that will get me across mongolia, occasionally doing 10 mph or less, without burning the clutch out in the middle of nowhere. With such a flat torque curve, I dont need a gearbox that drops 500 rpm as I change from 4th to 5th gear and from 5th to 6th ... wasting much of the benefit of the flat torque curve.

Its not like anyone is going to go track racing on an R1200 GS Adventure.... so why has no thought gone into the gearbox ratios?

Am I alone in this thinking?

 

[Padge]

First off Welcome...
I'd agree that the box is very road orientated and I don't think they have an option for a lower gear box yet (too late anyway if you've bought it already).
Doing a hill start full loaded leaves that sweat smell of burning clutch but I'd find the low box a pain for general use.

The 1150ADV did have this option, but unfortunately by asking this question you've just opened a can of worms... Prepare for the onslaught...

Hi Boys n Girls ... first time in here, and have just bought me a new 1200 Adventure ... just asking for the opinions of others ...

Considering it boasts an engine with a pretty flat torque curve between 3000 and 8000 rpm, is it just me who thinks the gearbox is ridiculously narrow?

I mean, I buy this bike to ride around the world and take whatever conditions come along in its stride, so I dont need a 1st gear that will get me in excess of 50 mph. But I do need a 1st gear that will get me across mongolia, occasionally doing 10 mph or less, without burning the clutch out in the middle of nowhere. With such a flat torque curve, I dont need a gearbox that drops 500 rpm as I change from 4th to 5th gear and from 5th to 6th ... wasting much of the benefit of the flat torque curve.

Its not like anyone is going to go track racing on an R1200 GS Adventure.... so why has no thought gone into the gearbox ratios?

Am I alone in this thinking?

 

[Micky]

Welcome Colebatch...

If I was riding across Mongolia I'd take the F650GS Dakar



www.adventure.gs

 

[(RIP) sherpa]

Welcome Colebatch...

When I was riding across Mongolia I took the F650GS Dakar



www.adventure.gs

Fixed it for ya!

Sherps

 

[Mouse]

If you look at the different ratios used on various BMW 1200cc models, you can see that the GS actually has got lower gearing than the others. I agree that it's still not low enough in some situations though.

Unfortunately I can't see any easy way to remedy this, barring a custom made final drive or something expensive like that.

 

[Shep]

If you look at the different ratios used on various BMW 1200cc models, you can see that the GS actually has got lower gearing than the others. I agree that it's still not low enough in some situations though.

Unfortunately I can't see any easy way to remedy this, barring a custom made final drive or something expensive like that.

Perhaps a HP2 final drive could be bodged onto a standard 1200? i'm assuming the HP2 is lower geared

Shep

 

[Padge]

Changing the final drive will mean it's screaming at motorway speed and roughly the same 500rpm drop between gears.
What he's looking for a bigger gap between the ratios.
Expensive, if possible...

What you need is a high/low transfer box.. hidden in the drive shaft casing.. Just switch it to Low for the mucky stuff.

I'd better get drawing up the blueprints on AutoCAD...

Perhaps a HP2 final drive could be bodged onto a standard 1200? i'm assuming the HP2 is lower geared

Shep

 

[Shep]

Changing the final drive will mean it's screaming at motorway speed and roughly the same 500rpm drop between gears.
What he's looking for a bigger gap between the ratios.
Expensive, if possible...

What you need is a high/low transfer box.. hidden in the drive shaft casing.. Just switch it to Low for the mucky stuff.

I'd better get drawing up the blueprints on AutoCAD...

Sorry! The reply was more to Mouse's comments rather than the original post.

I have no real gripe with the gear ratio's but a two speed, fly by wire throttle would be handy, a slow action for off road, a quick (quicker than standard anyway) action for road use, at the flick of a switch

The switch could disable the ABS, adjust the throttle action, soften the suspension, and remap the EFI for a nicer feel on off throttle, all possible with current tecnology

 

[Mouse]

Changing the final drive will mean it's screaming at motorway speed and roughly the same 500rpm drop between gears.
What he's looking for a bigger gap between the ratios.
Expensive, if possible...

Depends what you mean by "motorway speeds"

On a bike geared for 130mph top speed, reducing the gearing a bit wouldn't cause undue screaming at 70 or 80, I would have thought.

However, a wide ratio box would be the ideal solution, expensive as you say!

 

[Mouse]

Perhaps a HP2 final drive could be bodged onto a standard 1200? i'm assuming the HP2 is lower geared

You might think that, but it's not! Identical FD to the standard GS I believe, and the same ratios in the gearbox, although BMW claim the box is more rugged, or something.

 

[Cole]

Thanks guys ... nice to join in..

"The 1150ADV did have this option, but unfortunately by asking this question you've just opened a can of worms... Prepare for the onslaught..."

Bring on the worms I say...

"If I was riding across Mongolia I'd take the F650GS Dakar "

Hmm I have had this old discussion before ... actually its for riding around the world, including across Europe, Russia, America as well - and their highways .... Riding a naked bike across Mongolia would be fun, on a lighter bike, but realistically its never going to happen. You are always going to have a bike all up that weighs a lot more than you think .... take your 187kg F650 Dakar ... add 20 kg fuel and oil, add 20 kgs of aluminium panniers and mounts, add 40 kgs of tents, food, equipment, oils, spares etc in those panniers, add 10 kgs of stuff in a roll pack, add 10 kgs for a spare type, add a few more kgs for additional fuel (carried too high up) cause the dakar's limited tank may struggle in parts of Mongolia, then add 80 - 100kgs for the rider .... and you have 365 - 385 kgs to control.

Having ridden across Mongolia before I can assure you that the 30 kgs less weight of a Dakar vs an Adventure makes less of a difference than you may think once all is packed on the bike. The biggest differences come from packing the weight as low as possible on the bike.

And for the rest of the trip, like on the highways of Europe, America, Russia et al, the choice of 395 kgs with 100 hp (the Adventure) or 365 kgs with 50 hp (The Dakar) is one that currently come out in favour of the Adventure, for me.

My previous trip across Mongolia was on a (180kg unladen dry weight) TransAlp ... and it was fine ... you dont need speed or horsepower there , but you do in other parts of the world (including as soon as you cross the border into Russia), and at the end of the day you have to choose a bike to deal with ALL of the terrain. Any bike will be a compromise in some form or another.

Different strokes for different folks

 

[Cole]

However, a wide ratio box would be the ideal solution, expensive as you say!

Yep ... thats what I mean, a wider gearbox .... why not have 2nd gear on a amended gearbox with the same ratio as the current 1st gear ... then you could have a much lower 1st gear for "special occasions" ... and when riding on the road, always start off in 2nd gear (same as currently starting off in 1st gear). The 6th gear could be the same as it is now, and just stretch the remaining 3 gear ratios (3,4,5) over the ground currently covered by 4 (2,3,4,5), as the engine is torquey enough and the current ratios narrow enough to do that. That would be a possible solution from BMW's perspective.... Surely ?

 

[Mouse]

I'm sure it would be possible, and to be honest I'd happily sacrifice 10mph of top speed, so the gears wouldn't have to necessarily be spaced out much more widely.

But that's if you or I were designing the gearbox, not BMW They have to cater for the masses, and the masses don't go off road.

 

[Micky]

The standard F650 tank never struggled across Mongolia, even the Gobi Desert... d'ya know that!

Neither did the F650's... although we might have done

Didn't want to ride round the world, it's easy to ride across America, give us Asia every time, and without back up it has to be the 650's!


www.adventure.gs

 

[Tim Cullis]

There is already a lower-speed gearbox available. It's on the police-spec R1200RT-P which presumably would fit without too much trouble.

The extra low first gear allows walking pace and below without having to slip the clutch.

 

[MikeP]

There is already a lower-speed gearbox available. It's on the police-spec R1200RT-P which presumably would fit without too much trouble.

If it is a fit, then it's about time 1200 owners and prospective 1200 owners started lobbying BMW to make it available on the bike as an option.

Even those of us who have no intention of buying a 1200 (for the foreseeable future) might benefit one day!

It just seems daft to me that BMW don't offer a low first on the 1200GS/Adv.

 

[Cole]

The standard F650 tank never struggled across Mongolia, even the Gobi Desert... d'ya know that!


www.adventure.gs

Yep, I can believe that ... crossed the same desert going the other way, from Erlian to UB with just the standard 18 litre Transalp tank... refuelling only at Saynshand and Choyr. Carried extra fuel just in case we needed but didnt use it .... only problem with carrying extra fuel is usually it is carried either very far back or very high up ... at least in the tank your reassurance is around crotch height, and between both wheels. The other advantage is while you dont necessarily NEED extra fuel, it gives you a lot more options... there were times that I would like to not have been forced to take a certain route, due to fuel situation looking grim.

I am a firm believer that ANY vaguely sensible bike will get the long distance adventure job done, from the latest BMW 1200 GSA to the Mondo Enduro style Suzuki 350s, to Transalps, Africa Twins, Teneres, F650s, KLRs or old R80GSs .... (or a Harley in Dave Barr's case). Its so much more about mental determination and toughness than riding ability, physical strength, or the type of bike you take.

A Honda Transalp is pretty low down most peoples list of what bike to cross the Gobi with, but having read a lot of other peoples reports, I dont think there is anyone else who has done it any easier on anything else than I did it on a 400 cc Transalp. Besides, most people will finish a trip and swear they would not take anything else for their next ride .... no matter what bike they took.

Just pick whatever bike you fancy, (or whatever bike you can afford) and be very determined to succeed, is my advice.

I just wish I had a lower 1st gear on the Adventure with which to succeed .... instead I will have to carry a spare clutch with me when its time to leave the comfort of BMW civilised lands.

 

[Micky]

Hi Colebatch

It's a good market ploy by BMW to keep the weight of the petrol low down under the seat... lower C of G and all that, but then they compound the issue with putting a lead acid battery and an oil tank up where the petrol would have been, so no real advantage.

I'm a big believer in that no matter what space you have available, or what weight you can carry, you'll fill it/carry it. I appreciate the deserts of Mongolia would only be a small part of your journey, that you will have many miles on normal roads to cover, but hey... who wants to cover them at 90mph when you're on a trip like that.

We rode across Russia, and the roads of Asia at 40 to 60mph on the 650's and was able to take time to smell the flowers, smile and nod at people, stop and chat for half an hour while not even being able to speak their language.

We would have hated to have rushed through...

The girlfriend could never ride an 1100/1150/1200 so I took a 650 so we had common parts/ tools etc.

With hindsight, experience and gained knowledge, I certainly wouldn't take a 1200 on a trip like that... I'd get my old MZ Supafive out first

As you say though, any 'bike will do it, all things get sorted. A German pal came throught the Gobi and back to Germany in a Tuk-Tuk

Have a great trip whatever... enjoy



www.adventure.gs

 

[Cole]

Back to Gearing

Seems the whole R1200 series is basically using the same drive train ... R1200R, R1200RT, R1200S, and R1200ST all have the exact same gearbox ratios as the R1200GS and R1200GS Adventure....

Like sticking the same gearbox in a Landcruiser or a Ferrari.

BMW have made the effort to tune up or de-tune the engine as required to suit the various purposes of all the above bikes, but they have just dropped the same gearbox into each.

I am currently trying to find out if the cogs from the R1200RT-P (police bike) can be swapped to get that better first gear in the Adventure, or if a R1200RT-P gearbox needs to be bought whole. I did find this BMW blurb for the new R1200RT-P on the internet.

"The large fuel tank with a capacity of 27 litres (7.1 gal) allows lengthier distances to be covered without fuelling stop. The short-ratio first gear (adopted from the civilian version and shorter in ratio than the predecessor model) ensures smooth running and ride response, and also allows walking speeds for escort purposes. A specially adapted suspension strut is installed to withstand the additional wear and tear."

 

[silvermog]

Excellent, if you get a satisfactory answer, I'd be up for swapping out my first gear as well ...

Two up with luggage riding around Norway it was noticeable at times that we were pounding on the clutch for hillstarts. Slow speed clutchless travel would be most welcome as well ... I revisited a 1150Adv a few weeks ago just to remind myself how much better slow speed work could be ...

Drop me a PM, if you get any further info ... maybe we can make it worth some dealers while to take the task on with two or more swaps to do!