1300 GSA BMW battery maintenance

SiRich said:
Fair do's mate, I believe it is sorted and optimate etc is ok from my own experience, will definitely post back if I start getting problems although has been fine for me over a number of months using the socket to charge, I got the bike out the other week after it being plugged in for a month or two unused, starts on the button, no messages or anything on my journey.
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I’ve also been using the Optimate Quad on my 1300 through the accessory socket and it’s been fine so far.
 
This seems to be all about exacting technical terms, which most people wanting to charge the battery simply aren't interested in. The term "ZFE" or "central chassis electrics" is no more informative or meaningful to the average person than can-bus. These control modules are used in many different applications and everyone has a different name. The argument is simply for the sake of argument. All people need to know is if the particular charger is capable of opening the accessory port without having the ignition on.
 
RadioFlyer said:
How often have you seen or heard the term “CAN-bus” in the context of a compatible charger for the accessory socket? Way too often and almost always dead wrong.

“CAN-bus” is probably the most misused term in all of BMW-related forum electrical discussions. For an understanding of what the CAN-bus actually is and does I suggest reading the article on Wikipedia.

The ZFE (Zentrale Fahrzeugelektronik or Central Chassis Electrics) is one of several controllers on modern BMW motorcycles. Its job is to manage chassis electrics. It senses logical inputs from switches and responds by turning things (lights, horns, grip heaters…) on and off. It also monitors current draw. If the current draw exceeds a threshold then the circuit is shut down so the ZFE replaces fuses. If the current draw is below a threshold on a light circuit the ZFE assumes that there is a burned out bulb or a wiring fault and tells the Kombi (the instrument cluster) to display a warning. The ZFE manages the accessory port and shuts it down if too much current is drawn (> 5A or >10A depending on the model and year). The ZFE also monitors the accessory port for the presence of a compatible charger and connects it to the battery for charging.

Compatible chargers are often referred to as “CAN-bus” chargers or some other term using “CAN-bus”. This is nonsense and has led to a great deal of confusion. This misuse of the term “CAN-bus” probably originates with charger vendors. Early on the vendors would characterize chargers as being suitable for “CAN-bus equipped” motorcycles as a way of saying that the motorcycle had a ZFE. Later the terminology morphed into terms like “CAN-bus compatible”, “CAN-bus charger” and “CAN-bus mode”.

The CAN-bus itself does not play a role in charging via the accessory port. That many say it does is part of the mythology.

The ZFE “listens” for a specific electrical handshake from a charger and if the handshake is present the ZFE connects the charger through to the battery. No CAN-bus messaging is required to accomplish this.

A ZFE compatible charger sends and repeats a pulse train to the accessory port. The pulse train starts with the charger presenting 12V to the port for 1 second. Then it waits for 150 milliseconds. Next it sends a series of ten 12V pulses each having a duration of 10 microseconds and spaced 100 milliseconds apart. It repeats this pulse train until it senses that the ZFE has connected it to the battery and then it starts its charging procedure.

None of this has anything to do with the CAN-bus.
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Your information is about 12 years out of date. There is no ZFE on a watercooled GS. The charging socket is controlled by the GM module. And that is on the Can-bus "Network".

The 1300 has a BDC - Body Domain controller.

The 1300 certainly can turn its charging socket on or off.
 
MotoRevive said:
Your information is about 12 years out of date. There is no ZFE on a watercooled GS. The charging socket is controlled by the GM module. And that is on the Can-bus "Network".

The 1300 has a BDC - Body Domain controller.

The 1300 certainly can turn its charging socket on or off.
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Just more names for the same thing basically
 
ffs can someone please just tell me is my optimate 4 connected on a flylead direct to the battery sufficient to charge.
 
MotoRevive said:
Your information is about 12 years out of date. There is no ZFE on a watercooled GS. The charging socket is controlled by the GM module. And that is on the Can-bus "Network".

The 1300 has a BDC - Body Domain controller.

The 1300 certainly can turn its charging socket on or off.
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I am using ZFE in its generic sense. That is to say central chassis electrics which is perfectly accurate irrespective of the name or alpha- numeric designation given to the controller.
 
pbbanks said:
Think it's you who's misleading, if the charger isn't canbus compatible it won't open the port to charge the battery.
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I invite you to find an instance where BMW uses that term.

I also invite you to read the Wikipedia article on CAN-bus and then come back and tell us what part describes anything to do with battery charging or port opening.
 
RadioFlyer said:
I invite you to find an instance where BMW uses that term.

I also invite you to read the Wikipedia article on CAN-bus and then come back and tell us what part describes anything to do with battery charging or port opening.
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Is it just the way everyone is refering to the "term" CAN-bus that's the problem.

The 12v accessory plug on the 1300gs near the clocks at the front where some chargers can be plugged into won't open power to the battery for them to charge unless it has the ability to signal the bikes electronics to open the port. ------- is that ok?.

Started to read your link to the Wikipedia article but lost the will to live somewhere along the way.
 
pbbanks said:
If it's a lithium battery on your bike and charger is lithium compatible and set to that mode ---- yes, no no problem connecting straight to the battery.
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I have read that the charging port will not open if the temperature is below a certain point. The controller presumably reads the temperature of the battery via the extra lead to the battery's BMS. That being the case is there an issue when connecting direct to the battery and bypassing this temperature check?
 
RadioFlyer said:
I have read that the charging port will not open if the temperature is below a certain point. The controller presumably reads the temperature of the battery via the extra lead to the battery's BMS. That being the case is there an issue when connecting direct to the battery and bypassing this temperature check?
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I believe the electronics for the lithium battery to protect itself are built into the battery itself. They do go into a lockdown state if the voltage is allowed to go too low. They then need waking up either by connecting another charged 12v battery momentarily and a charger or by a dealer.
Not sure what the signal wire on the battery us for unless it's to let the bike know it has a lithium battery so it knows to change it's charge voltages accordingly. But I'm just guessing in that.
 
pbbanks said:
I believe the electronics for the lithium battery to protect itself are built into the battery itself. They do go into a lockdown state if the voltage is allowed to go too low. They then need waking up either by connecting another charged 12v battery momentarily and a charger or by a dealer.
Not sure what the signal wire on the battery us for unless it's to let the bike know it has a lithium battery so it knows to change it's charge voltages accordingly. But I'm just guessing in that.
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Yes, its built into the battery software. It also stores battery condition. If the battery has been neglected, It will invalid the warranty. Any faulty batteries are checked by BMW.
 
pbbanks said:
I believe the electronics for the lithium battery to protect itself are built into the battery itself. They do go into a lockdown state if the voltage is allowed to go too low. They then need waking up either by connecting another charged 12v battery momentarily and a charger or by a dealer.
Not sure what the signal wire on the battery us for unless it's to let the bike know it has a lithium battery so it knows to change it's charge voltages accordingly. But I'm just guessing in that.
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The extra connection is how the bike's controller communicates with the battery's battery management system. The controller must be coded to expect either a lithium battery or an AGM (BMW's cold weather option). The controller can learn the lithium battery's state of charge and temperature and a host of other things that you would not suspect from the battery's management system.
 
RadioFlyer said:
The extra connection is how the bike's controller communicates with the battery's battery management system. The controller must be coded to expect either a lithium battery or an AGM (BMW's cold weather option). The controller can learn the lithium battery's state of charge and temperature and a host of other things that you would not suspect from the battery's management system.
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My dealer's Motorrad tec says they have switched from Li to regular AGM on many bikes and Motorrad technical sheet says straight swap, no programming required.
 
TaskMule said:
My dealer's Motorrad tec
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TaskMule said:
says they have switched from Li to regular AGM on many bikes and Motorrad technical sheet says straight swap, no programming required.
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As a matter of policy I put very little faith in what BMW "techs" say about anything.

There are many references to the recoding necessary when switching battery types.

One example is here where the chap mentions it at 2:44 in the video:

I have no idea if he is correct about BMW having decided to "dump" lithium batteries but I have read enough to convince me that I would not venture out into a remote area with one - particularly if there are temperature extremes as he mentions.

This post has an excerpt from the manual on battery type change:

Another post here (#4) where the fellows says "I had issues with lithium battery 2 days after receiving the bike. The dealership said it was shot and gave me a std one. Of course I get error messages as the computer says it can not read de battery management system that Lithium batteries have. I have been waiting for 3 months now to get a lithium replacement and there is not one available in the US."
 
Nippy Normans supply Touratech, Wunderlich, Desert Fox and many other makes of accessories.
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