2002 R1150GS non-starting problems

[Hairy Ben]

Hello there. Got a sudden attack of the 'not working' with my previously reliable GS. Just wondering if anyone will have any ideas.

This morning I went to go to work, pressed the starter and the bike fired up then died. Something it doesn't normally do. On the next press it started as normal and rode in to work the same, so I thought nothing of it.

Forward to home time, pressed starter and itjust wwouldn't run. It would turn over, fire, catch then die when the starter was released. Occasionally it would catch briefly and run poorly but then also die in short order.

It seemed to present itself like a fuelling issue would, but the system seemed to be pressuring and when we took the injectors out and turned it over they seemed to be misting fine. The fuel pump did sound wrong on priming a few times whilst messing about with the bike but even when it made the usual noise it wouldn't run. As I had the stuff there I also put new plugs and an air filter in but that made no difference.

So, it seems to have fuel to the injectors, it has a nice big spark on both sides and a new air filter but no joy. Any ideas where I should go next?

Got a tour to Cornwall booked in three weeks too. Couldn't have come at a worse time. Sheesh!

 

[Hairy Ben]

Fuel filter is long over due changing btw. And will be done as soon as I source some clips. That's about the last obvious thing I can think to try.

 

[monkeyboy]

These are always a bit*h. So what state is in in now - will it run at all? Obviously if you've confirmed petrol and spark then it should run but as it isn't then maybe it's not getting enough fuel? If it wont start and it's getting the right amount of petrol, you obviously get a build up going into the exhaust and when if/when it does fire then you get backfires etc. It could be the hall sensor but then you'd get intermittent or no spark at all. It's always better when these things fail completely rather than 'sort of' work. It's impossible to visually quantify if you're getting the correct amount of fuel though so it could be the regulator, or as you've mentioned the pump sounding strange, could be that or something like a pipe coming off/loose to mean low fuel pressure. Where abouts are you? I've got a couple of spare fuel pumps at home.

 

[DrFarkoff]

Hall sensors I think from the bit below pretty classic symptoms

Forward to home time, pressed starter and itjust wwouldn't run. It would turn over, fire, catch then die when the starter was released. Occasionally it would catch briefly and run poorly but then also die in short order.

 

[monkeyboy]

Hall sensors I think from the bit below pretty classic symptoms

I've got a couple of spares of those at my place too if your're close enough

 

[Hairy Ben]

Thanks for the replies! I'm near Crawley in west Sussex monkeyboy, and you're right. Nothing worse than a nebulous bike problem. I'd rather something physically fell off and bounced down the road than be faced with a set of mysterious symptoms anytime.

Had the bike eight years and didn't even know there was such a thing as a hall sensor lol..

Been reading a few other threads on here and I was wondering if it could actually be water in the fuel tank causing the problems. Had a blocked fuel filler drain a few weeks ago which let a small amount in from overnight rain when I opened the filler at a petrol station. Something that's happened a couple of times over the years so possibly it's built up in there to the point of being a problem? I'm going to do the filter when I get back to work next week and maybe put some of that wynnes dry fuel stuff in I've been reading about here just to see if there's any difference. There's a Steptoe fuel pump test I'll give a go too.

It's very unsettling all this. Eight years and 52,000 miles and the only time the ol' girl has ever let me down before is when all the smoke escaped from the alarm/immobiliser. The very foundations of my motorcycling world have been shaken lol.

 

[Hairy Ben]

Only got two weeks to sort it too. Otherwise I'll be doing Cornwall on an MZ with a total loss gearbox oil system. You'll be able to track my progress via GPS. (Gearbox Puddle Syndrome)

 

[Steptoe]

Hall sensor would be my number one suspect.
Even though you've got fuel and a spark, i've had them sit idling for as long as you want, all day if need be, but touch the throttle and they die = hall sensor.

 

[Trullion]

When my Hall Sensor went it was exactly as Steptoe has said. It would start and tickover fine, but would die as soon as the throttle was opened the tiniest amount.


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[Hairy Ben]

Natch. No original ones on ebay and Motoworks want £191. Should be called the AAArgh sensor.

Would this be a dreadfully tricky item to remove and replace too? That would just about complete the set.

 

[ChrisH Kerry]

There's a Greek place on eBay that sell new ones they make for about £90. They're called 'Archon'. Been mentioned several times on here. Don't think it's that hard to install them, I'm sure you can find an online manual link somewhere in this section ... in fact maybe here

 

[hops]

See this thread, offer of a loan stands to you for diagnosis.

http://www.ukgser.com/forums/showthread.php?t=371976

 

[monkeyboy]

Don't search for it specifically - look for someone breaking like this

 

[Trullion]

Would this be a dreadfully tricky item to remove and replace too? That would just about complete the set.

It's a straightforward job. I've done it twice and reckon at a pinch I could now do it at the roadside. Basically you remove the alternator cover, then the crankshaft pulley and alternator belt, having loosened the alternator. This will expose the HES, which should be removed after marking its position and disconnecting its connector under the tank. Replace the new HES in the same position as the old one, connect it. Put back the alternator belt and crankshaft pulley, tension the belt. Check to see that the engine now runs then reset the timing. Job done. There are threads giving more precise info on this, but it's not a difficult job.


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[Hairy Ben]

Well changing the fuel filter didn't achieve anything. Looks like it's hall replacement time. Read a pdf from somewhere on the subject and scared myself witless a few days ago, but just had a look in my clymer manual and it seemed a lot more reasonable. I'm no stranger to bolting things on and off just a bit shy if messing with something as sensitive as ignition timing. Will get one on order and take it from there.

Don't suppose there's anyone localish to Crawley who's done the deed before just in case I come really unstuck?

 

[Packer]

Steptoe isn't a million miles away from you, just on the SW side of Wimbledon Common. He could probably train the BMW guys if he wanted that kind of job.

 

[Steptoe]

Read a pdf from somewhere on the subject and scared myself witless a few days ago, but just had a look in my clymer manual and it seemed a lot more reasonable. I'm no stranger to bolting things on and off just a bit shy if messing with something as sensitive as ignition timing. Will get one on order and take it from there.

Don't suppose there's anyone localish to Crawley who's done the deed before just in case I come really unstuck?

Ignore any american "how to's" on the subject, really, they make everything as difficult and complex as possible so it makes them appear a master mechanic.

It's just nuts and bolts, alternator cover off, alternator belt off, tank pulled back (no need to remove) so you can gain access the the hall sensor plug mounted behind the larg bank of assorted handlebar etc plugs.
To undo the alternator pulley bolt, put a 16mm socket onto the bolt with a long socket bar, turn on the ignition, hold the bar with one hand and tap starter button with the other. There, the bolt is now loose. And no it won't pull your arm off, a five yr old could comfortably hold the bar.
Three small allen bolts hold the hall sensor in place, remove and ping the sensor off the engine case, nip up the alternator on it's highest setting so you can fit/pull the plug at the other end through.
Replacement is a reversal of what you done.

 

[duckspeed]

And this man gives all these hard won pearls of wisdom away for nowt!!
Good on yer pal !



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[monkeyboy]

Far be it from me to defer from what Steptoe says - it just leaves out how to torque up the pulley bolt on reassembly. I had one come loose and fail by the roadside cos I hadn't done it up tight enough I know there are plenty of methods people have for doing it but there is a really really easy way. Get a long 6mm bolt, put the engine to TDC and stare at the bike above where the starter is. The panel above has an indentation in it running parallel with the bike where you can slip a (maybe 70mm) 6mm bolt in to lock the engine. You CAN buy a tool to do it but a bolt will do. If the engine is at TDC then the bolt will go in and engage with a hole in the flywheel and lock it. Then you can just take the pulley bolt on and off with a spanner - and torque it up properly. It's a piece of cake and takes 30 seconds.

Also - as Steptoe told me - it's a good idea to get some superglue and glue the hall timing ring to the pulley before reassembly - it will be obvious. They're delicate and you can flatten the tab quite easily when you reassemble.

Just remember to take the bolt out!!

 

[Packer]

Would sticking it in top gear and getting a helper to press the rear brake pedal be just as effective? Surely the torque setting isn't greater than the engine torque output? No engine locking pin to forget either