patzx12
Registered user
Take zillions of pictures, especially the wiring harness. Its not as bad as it looks you will need a solid support for the bike front half. At least when its split their is easy access to the clutch.
2008 GSA clutch change progress - pressure plate crazing query
- Thread starter andeebee
- Start date
Take zillions of pictures, especially the wiring harness. Its not as bad as it looks you will need a solid support for the bike front half. At least when its split their is easy access to the clutch.
Bendy toy
Registered user
Unless you need full access to the back end (e.g. repainting), don't fully split the bike.
Support engine on axle stands and a front wheel chock. Loosen the top subframe bolts disconnect the throttle body intakes and wires to gearbox back end. Also remove the clutch slave cylinder and rear shock top bolt and electrics if it's ESA.
The whole back subframe can now lift up to access the gearbox. Leave the back end wiring loom connected.
The bottom right gearbox and top left have locating dowel sleeves. My bottom right loosened easily. The top left dowel stud was seized solid.
I tapped the gearbox bolt hole to next size up (IIRC M10). Then a long bolt turned down to clear the engine threads could jack the box off the engine.
The only other way I could see would have damaged the joint face.
It worked with no damage. Everything was smothered in copper grease on rebuild so hopefully next time will be easier.
Sent somehow.
Support engine on axle stands and a front wheel chock. Loosen the top subframe bolts disconnect the throttle body intakes and wires to gearbox back end. Also remove the clutch slave cylinder and rear shock top bolt and electrics if it's ESA.
The whole back subframe can now lift up to access the gearbox. Leave the back end wiring loom connected.
The bottom right gearbox and top left have locating dowel sleeves. My bottom right loosened easily. The top left dowel stud was seized solid.
I tapped the gearbox bolt hole to next size up (IIRC M10). Then a long bolt turned down to clear the engine threads could jack the box off the engine.
The only other way I could see would have damaged the joint face.
It worked with no damage. Everything was smothered in copper grease on rebuild so hopefully next time will be easier.
Sent somehow.
Both gearbox casing to engine crankcase dowels were pretty solid on mine and required some persuasion to separate the two halves.
KP100
Registered user
Just a thought, but would ya not get away with just buying the friction plate and the other small bits? 325 is a real killer for the pressure plate
The reason it's so expensive is because the pressure plate also incorporates the flywheel and starter ring gear.
Plus they aren't manufactured in massive numbers like car clutches are, hence no economy of scale.
andeebee
Registered user
New clutch parts turned up yesterday and rear crank seal and gearbox input seal should arrive tomorrow.
Picked up a few replacement bolts (st. steel cap screws) for those that disintegrated upon removal today.
Hopefully start going together soon...
Picked up a few replacement bolts (st. steel cap screws) for those that disintegrated upon removal today.
Hopefully start going together soon...
Bendy toy
Registered user
But only because BMW decided to put the clutch back to front.
No arguments there but the clutch is so similar to a car clutch the question is why did BMW spend a fortune developing their own hybrid idea that really doesn't work very well when they could have had an off the shelf design with toroidal slave cylinder; job done. It might have moved the gearbox back a little but really that can't have been such an issue to deal with at the design stage.
The money saved could have gone into a better engineered drive shaft with CV joints instead of lumpy Hardy Spicers.
Bendy toy
Registered user
But only because BMW decided to put the clutch back to front when a normal setup would have done the same job. Car engines have the starter driving the flywheel which as we know is the clutch reaction plate.
No arguments, but the clutch is so similar to a car clutch the question is why did BMW spend a fortune developing their own hybrid that really doesn't work very well. They could have had an off the shelf design with toroidal slave cylinder & job done. It might have moved the gearbox back a little** but really that can't have been such an issue to deal with at the design stage.
**Probably not - the slave cylinder (another special) takes up space to the rear swing arm.
The money saved could have gone into a better engineered drive shaft with CV joints instead of lumpy Hardy Spicers.
Excuses will be made about torque loadings and rotating mass, but there's nothing light weight about the bike clutch and the overhung gearbox shaft is prone to whipping and wearing the splines
Well I managed to strip bike and split engine and box. Found a bone dry housing. Friction plate looked as though it had been cooked, it only slipped under full power.
I did struggle attempting to hinge the rear subframe via the top mounts. Impossible as the right hand side fouls the gearbox. I had to remove the two bolts and pull the subframe backwards then up away from gearbox. It is suspended of the garage roof timbers now.
Plate material thickness was nearly 6mm. I wonder what the new plate thickness is? If it turns out the plate is hardly worn it would lead me to believe the pressure plate is faulty.
As a newbie to the gs I find it to be overly complex and a royal pain to work on. To say the build quality is poor is an understatement. Corrosion on my 09 is horrendous. This may be the previous owners poor maintenance regime, but I've had bikes far older and better condition than the gsa. I wish I had bought the 1150 now. Too late! Sorry to ramble on.
Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk
I did struggle attempting to hinge the rear subframe via the top mounts. Impossible as the right hand side fouls the gearbox. I had to remove the two bolts and pull the subframe backwards then up away from gearbox. It is suspended of the garage roof timbers now.
Plate material thickness was nearly 6mm. I wonder what the new plate thickness is? If it turns out the plate is hardly worn it would lead me to believe the pressure plate is faulty.
As a newbie to the gs I find it to be overly complex and a royal pain to work on. To say the build quality is poor is an understatement. Corrosion on my 09 is horrendous. This may be the previous owners poor maintenance regime, but I've had bikes far older and better condition than the gsa. I wish I had bought the 1150 now. Too late! Sorry to ramble on.
Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk
Bendy toy
Registered user
Well I managed to strip bike and split engine and box. Found a bone dry housing. Friction plate looked as though it had been cooked, it only slipped under full power.
I did struggle attempting to hinge the rear subframe via the top mounts. Impossible as the right hand side fouls the gearbox. I had to remove the two bolts and pull the subframe backwards then up away from gearbox. It is suspended of the garage roof timbers now.
Plate material thickness was nearly 6mm. I wonder what the new plate thickness is? If it turns out the plate is hardly worn it would lead me to believe the pressure plate is faulty.
As a newbie to the gs I find it to be overly complex and a royal pain to work on. To say the build quality is poor is an understatement. Corrosion on my 09 is horrendous. This may be the previous owners poor maintenance regime, but I've had bikes far older and better condition than the gsa. I wish I had bought the 1150 now. Too late! Sorry to ramble on.
Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk
Pretty much my opinion of the Mk2.
Frame paint evaporated with really bad rust in some places.
Overly fussy design that cost BMW more money than was ever necessary often made the bike heavier than needs be and causes the owner more hassle and expense. The clutch is a glaring example.
But it's still the most all round useful and fun bike I've ever owned. It could however have been so much better.
andeebee
Registered user
It lives! Managed to get her all buttoned up and running today, working all by my lonesome.
Took a bit longer to complete as I also changed the rear disc and rebuilt the rear caliper as it was binding/warped. Also did the final drive fluid (nice and clear coming out). And changed the oil today after the test run.
Had problems getting the drive-shaft engaged back into the output shaft (it had dropped out during reassembly), but by elevating the shaft housing and some 2 hours of swearing managed to get it clicked back in.
First run out today and all seems well with the new clutch. Very different feel at the lever to what I was used to and engagement occurs very early on the lever whereas I was looking at almost back to bar previously.
No slippage on accelerating in high gears (but I havent given it full beans yet). All six gears engaged fine with no slipping.
Two 'problems' -
Cant find neutral with bike running. Bear in mind the bike only did 4 miles, do I need to give it a good run to bed it in / free it up?
I assume the clutch is dragging with the engine when in gear and not allowing the gearbox to drop into neutral?
It cant be too bad as when on the main stand and running (in neutral) the rear wheel doesnt turn, but slight creeping can be seen - maybe an inch every 30 seconds or so.
Brake lever is very stiff and stopping bike takes considerable effort than previously. So I am bearing in mind a new rear disc, new rear pads, recent front pads (2000 miles) and I bled the fluid all round, however I would have thought I would have more power than before.
Could this be an ABS problem (no warning lights as yet) as the unit has been disconnected from the rear pipes/caliper for some 2 months whilst I got my shit together?
Any thoughts welcome... otherwise pretty pleased so far
Took a bit longer to complete as I also changed the rear disc and rebuilt the rear caliper as it was binding/warped. Also did the final drive fluid (nice and clear coming out). And changed the oil today after the test run.
Had problems getting the drive-shaft engaged back into the output shaft (it had dropped out during reassembly), but by elevating the shaft housing and some 2 hours of swearing managed to get it clicked back in.
First run out today and all seems well with the new clutch. Very different feel at the lever to what I was used to and engagement occurs very early on the lever whereas I was looking at almost back to bar previously.
No slippage on accelerating in high gears (but I havent given it full beans yet). All six gears engaged fine with no slipping.
Two 'problems' -
Cant find neutral with bike running. Bear in mind the bike only did 4 miles, do I need to give it a good run to bed it in / free it up?
I assume the clutch is dragging with the engine when in gear and not allowing the gearbox to drop into neutral?
It cant be too bad as when on the main stand and running (in neutral) the rear wheel doesnt turn, but slight creeping can be seen - maybe an inch every 30 seconds or so.
Brake lever is very stiff and stopping bike takes considerable effort than previously. So I am bearing in mind a new rear disc, new rear pads, recent front pads (2000 miles) and I bled the fluid all round, however I would have thought I would have more power than before.
Could this be an ABS problem (no warning lights as yet) as the unit has been disconnected from the rear pipes/caliper for some 2 months whilst I got my shit together?
Any thoughts welcome... otherwise pretty pleased so far
patzx12
Registered user
Well done, wait until you have done some miles before evaluation.
I hate when I have just done a major job like a clutch. I am always listening for noises and thinking what is that smell
I hate when I have just done a major job like a clutch. I am always listening for noises and thinking what is that smell
Bendy toy
Registered user
.
Brake lever is very stiff and stopping bike takes considerable effort than previously. So I am bearing in mind a new rear disc, new rear pads, recent front pads (2000 miles) and I bled the fluid all round, however I would have thought I would have more power than before.
Could this be an ABS problem (no warning lights as yet) as the unit has been disconnected from the rear pipes/caliper for some 2 months whilst I got my shit together?
Any thoughts welcome... otherwise pretty pleased so far
The clutch should bed in slightly and make neutral easier to find. Take the top off your clutch master reservoir and slowly pull the lever. If fine bubbles rise, keep moving the lever until they stop. Also tie the lever back overnight. I had the same issue but normal bleeding would not shift the fine bubbles.
When you say stiff brakes. Do you mean the fronts? It's likely some pistons were getting sticky but have properly stuck while the bike was parked.
Sent somehow.
andeebee
Registered user
Bendy, thanks, that makes sense about the brakes. I laid it up after a wet journey and the brakes have been unused. Will give them some stick tomorrow and see if that frees them up.
I have the MOT at 11am so hope they improve.
I have the MOT at 11am so hope they improve.
By disconnecting the battery for a while it will reset the adaptations in the ECU.
It will re learn the gear and neutral position providing the selector potentiometer on the back of the gearbox is ok.
Early ones had a plug on the unit itself later ones had a flying lead. Later units seemed better sealed.
The wipers on the carbon tracks seemed very sharp and wore the tracks leaving a lot of carbon dust inside the units.
Have had good results by just cleaning them out. But chances are it just needs to re-learn.
It will re learn the gear and neutral position providing the selector potentiometer on the back of the gearbox is ok.
Early ones had a plug on the unit itself later ones had a flying lead. Later units seemed better sealed.
The wipers on the carbon tracks seemed very sharp and wore the tracks leaving a lot of carbon dust inside the units.
Have had good results by just cleaning them out. But chances are it just needs to re-learn.
It shouldn't need any "bedding in" to free it up..
Have you fitted the correct flywheel/pressure plate. They've used two different types during the 1200s life.
Fitting a pre 2008 part to a later bike gives the problem you describe above.
Even having the two different parts side by side it's very difficult to tell them apart.
andeebee
Registered user
Pressure plate looked identical to the one I took off and I was aware of the earlier model plate when ordering, so pretty sure its correct.
Ride to the MOT this morning and Im now finding neutral, although lever needs to be back to bar to select, so maybe there is air in system as previously described.
Spent the morning (pre MOT) investigating sticky brakes to find front right caliper a mess of stuck pistons, one pushed completely back to the seal and refusing to move, obviously hadnt been working for some time.
Left both calipers on the bike and gave both a good 'piston almost out', scrub, lube and push back in and now moving freely, although pistons on the right side are f**ked and will be replaced going forward.
Failed MOT on rear brake binding. Need to get the caliper off and investigate again as it wasnt moving back and forth on the pins/slides when I had it apart earlier but I thought it would free up.
Obviously not. Looks like you cant get the slide pins as parts either so may need to sand it down. Otherwise it the rear master cylinder not releasing properly.
MOT guy said it might explain why the rear disc was warped and needed replacing.
Also had advisory on the front discs.
Basically the bike has been neglected most of its life and Im learning this year of bike needs TLC from day one and baths in ACF50 to get it through the later years.
Learning alot about the bike though!
Ride to the MOT this morning and Im now finding neutral, although lever needs to be back to bar to select, so maybe there is air in system as previously described.
Spent the morning (pre MOT) investigating sticky brakes to find front right caliper a mess of stuck pistons, one pushed completely back to the seal and refusing to move, obviously hadnt been working for some time.
Left both calipers on the bike and gave both a good 'piston almost out', scrub, lube and push back in and now moving freely, although pistons on the right side are f**ked and will be replaced going forward.
Failed MOT on rear brake binding. Need to get the caliper off and investigate again as it wasnt moving back and forth on the pins/slides when I had it apart earlier but I thought it would free up.
Obviously not. Looks like you cant get the slide pins as parts either so may need to sand it down. Otherwise it the rear master cylinder not releasing properly.
MOT guy said it might explain why the rear disc was warped and needed replacing.
Also had advisory on the front discs.
Basically the bike has been neglected most of its life and Im learning this year of bike needs TLC from day one and baths in ACF50 to get it through the later years.
Learning alot about the bike though!
Bendy toy
Registered user
This winter I've used Corrosion-X a more greasy anti corrosion spray. Its a bit smelly, but seems to have done a good job.
Sent somehow.
Sent somehow.
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