2009 and 2010 GS Adventures vs. 2014 Triumph Tiger Explorer.

Nick V · Sep 18, 2013

A mate of mine (who for reasons which are known only to himself, will not own BMWs) took delivery of a 2014 Explorer yesterday.
He’d been talking about this for a long time, and on this Saturday past, he persuaded me to take a test ride on a demo bike from Traditional Triumph in Edenvale.
I did not then, nor have I now, any intention of ‘going British’. And to compile an exhaustive back-to-back comparison would take an age and require major commitment on the part of any subsequent readership. But I thought I’d note down my overriding impressions, as it was a very interesting experience…

As yet, I have no direct experience of the water-cooled GS, so all I can tell you is how the Explorer stacks up against my two bikes. Within 10 Km, the impression that stuck most was ‘Different, but same’.

ENGINE: The biggest difference. The Triumph’s mill gains and loses revs a lot quicker and more smoothly. You can feel virtually no vibration at all. But I come from a long background of aftermarket exhausts, and I was really looking forward to hearing the Triumph’s sound.
During the test, the only way I could hear anything at all was to gun the engine at full throttle from very low speeds. I wasn’t wearing ear plugs, but from about 80 Km/h onward, all I could hear was windnoise. The oft-vaunted growl of the triple sounds just like a sewing machine through the standard can. I wanted to cry…
Surprisingly for an engine 100cc bigger than the BMW’s, the Triumph feels overly biased to top-end. For low-end stomp, the Camhead walks all over it. And at freeway speeds, it doesn’t feel a world apart from the Camhead on top-end power, either.
I suspect that given two riders of equal skill on the two bikes, they’d be very evenly matched.

SUSPENSION: Given that the Triumph has telescopic forks, I expected it to dive like mad under braking. I was pleasantly surprised that it didn’t. There was SOME dive, but it was very controlled.
I couldn’t claim to have made an accurate judgement of the handling, since I seemed to be riding the bike on Market Day, and every one of my corners was ruined by slow-moving cars.
Having said that, it filters between slow-moving traffic quite easily – no more easily than the BMW, though.

ANCILLARIES: I deliberately didn’t ask for a salesperson to show me around the bike before setting off, because I was curious to see how the bike would present itself to someone totally unfamiliar with it.
The trip computer on the Triumph was utterly confusing. Where BMW give you one button and everything you see on the display is either clearly explained at a glance or intuitive, the Triumph gives you three buttons, one of the busiest multifunction displays I’ve ever seen on a big adventure bike, and very little of what you see can be deciphered unless you know beforehand what you’re looking at. I could only figure out about 50% of what I saw on the display…
Though I did like the digital speed readout, there was also an annoying ergonomic niggle: I’m 1.83m tall, and I found that the angle of the display cut off the top segments of the speed readout.

VALUE FOR MONEY/TOYS LIST: Not the Triumph’s strongest point.
On RSA-market GSAs of this vintage, LED turn signals, auxiliary fog lights, extensive crash bars and hand protectors are all standard equipment. Not on the Triumph. ESA can be specified for the BMW. Not for the Triumph. On RSA-market BMWs, those with ABS (and that’s 99% of them) all have heated grips as a ‘value-add’. Not so on the Triumph…
To give the Triumph it’s due, the one I rode did have cruise control. But I’d never use it – I don’t believe in giving away control in exchange for convenience. If your wrist is really that sore on a long trip, it’s probably time to take a break…

In conclusion: an impressive machine. The force is strong with this one. I got the impression that I’d have bonded with it, had I had the chance to ride it for longer.
But there was no impression of “WOW!!! Where have you been all my life?!”
In short, not enough to tempt me away from my GSAs.
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APE · Sep 18, 2013

Trumpet ok if you're happy riding a clone :thumby:

Lunepilot · Sep 18, 2013

"I did not then, nor have I now, any intention of ‘going British’"
Whats British got to do with it your comparing Motorcycles,aren't you. :nenau

birdseye · Sep 19, 2013

I would hope you encouraged anyone to go british. If we dont support british companies, who will?

I cant think of any country in europe where the pop dont support their indigenous manufacturers. Maybe thats why germany, france and italy have a motor industry and we dont

Nick V · Sep 19, 2013

APE said:
Trumpet ok if you're happy riding a clone

That's one quirk of being a biker... personal preference plays a huge role, and people go to considerable length to justify their personal choice.

Don't get me wrong: I think the Explorer is a superb bike. Even more so, considering that for Triumph's first attempt at a big adventure bike, they got this much right.

I know some diehard BMW fans who have sneered at it and said "It's British so it's a piece of shit that leaks oil", even though they've never even seen one, much less ridden it. How easy it is to claim the high ground by leaning on tired stereotypes.
For his part, Ray respects BMWs even though he doesn't ride them. And there are all shades in between.

I learned early on not to turn my personal brand preference into some kind of religion. IMHO, all bikes made by the established manufacturers are good machines.
What makes one 'Better' or 'Worse' than another is simply this: How you feel about it.

Lunepilot said:
"I did not then, nor have I now, any intention of ‘going British’"
Whats British got to do with it your comparing Motorcycles,aren't you.

After I'd finished my test ride, Eddie Izzard was waiting for me.
He'd seen me climb off the Camhead and onto the Explorer, and he berated me for half an hour, for riding something made by people who'd lost two world wars.
After I hung my head and promised never to do it again, he became much kinder, and offered me a bone-marrow tranfusion. In fact, he also offered to throw in his favourite pair of fishnets and a tube of high-persistence mascara.

I declined as graciously as I could, telling him I really didn't want to be THAT British.

Whereupon he became enraged, nicked a wooden leg from a war veteran passing by on crutches, and tried to beat me over the head with it.
I turned to the Explorer, but - O woe! - the Triumph people had been so offended by my refusal that they'd confiscated the keys, leaving me no choice but to make a hasty retreat on my trusty Camhead.

Unbeknown to me, Justin Bond was hiding in my topbox, and proceeded to nag in my ear about chopping in the Camhead for a Buell Ulysses, all the way home...

Bendy toy · Sep 19, 2013

If Triumph would fit some "proper" suspension (such as Saxon or Hossack) instead of the tired old heavily compromised tele forks I might be interested.

The British are good at coming up with unusual designs that move things on (e.g. James Dyson, Trevor Baylis, Barnes Wallis, Geoff DeHaviland). But today's Triumph does nothing out of the ordinary. They develop existing stuff and follow what others have done when the market has been proven. I've seen no class leading designs that break the mould. They even turned down Norman Hossack because his version of the (early) Hinkley Trident handled too well!!

birdseye · Sep 19, 2013

APE said:
Trumpet ok if you're happy riding a clone

Thats a joke when the origin of the BMW engine was Douglas motorcycles of the UK and the origin of the current suspension was a scot called hossack. Even the orverall concept of the GS ie the long distance off road / touring style was done earlier by Triumph. And finally one of the most depressing bits of owning a GS is to see all the ex sportsbike clones riding them, ally boxes, spotlights, adventure model, BMW clothing. Great bikes which is why I bought my second one, but individual they arent.

Martyn H · Sep 19, 2013

birdseye said:
Thats a joke when the origin of the BMW engine was Douglas motorcycles of the UK and the origin of the current suspension was a scot called hossack. Even the orverall concept of the GS ie the long distance off road / touring style was done earlier by Triumph. And finally one of the most depressing bits of owning a GS is to see all the ex sportsbike clones riding them, ally boxes, spotlights, adventure model, BMW clothing. Great bikes which is why I bought my second one, but individual they arent.

The Douglas was in-line; if anything BMW were probably inspired by the ABC, which was "across the frame".
And the Hossack type of suspension is the Duo-lever as fitted to the K-Series

Nick V · Sep 19, 2013

...I see this veering off-topic into a 'Mine-is-bigger/better/more Hossacky-than-yours' scenario. :tears

Can't we get beyond that?
The original point of this thread was a semi-idle comparison of good points and bad points between GSA and Explorer.

Out of interest, has anyone else here ridden an Explorer yet?

Bendy toy · Sep 19, 2013

The Telelever is a Saxon fork. I believe a British design, but cant find any info.
The Duolever (as said) is a Norman Hossack design inspired by racing car suspension.

The Doulglas horizontal twin was designed by W. J. Barter whose company was bought by the Douglas company. It's said to have been licenced to BMW (who in fairness did something with it) but I cant find any source for that information.

I can't think of any manufacturer that has avoided mainstream designs as much as BMW has. The issue is that BMW has at least tried to be different - form following function etc. The others seem to keep on making the same old same old wearing a new dress. The Triumph Explorer is just another "me too" adventure bike. It might be great to use, but it does nothing different from anything that everyone else is doing.

It cant be about cost because a Hossack fork should be about the cheapest way to hang the front end. It's the same issue with DI 2 strokes - how can they be more costly than something like the new BMW LC? It costs a fortune to develop a new engine/bike so why does it always have to be more of the same?

Big Lee · Sep 19, 2013

Nick V said:
Out of interest, has anyone else here ridden an Explorer yet?

Ridden one? I`ve got one :beer:

Cracking bike it is too, did 3k miles round Europe this year with no bother, CC was a winner on those long Belgian motorways and the popping and banging of the oe can down those passes in the Alps was grin inducing

Probably gonna get the suspension fettled over the winter for better handling and to suit the weight of what I carry and some PR3`s very soon when the EXP`s are finally dead after 7k

richie · Sep 19, 2013

APE said:
Trumpet ok if you're happy riding a clone

Or

BMW ok if you are happy being a clone

Only joking it came straight into my mind

Nick V · Sep 20, 2013

Big Lee said:
Ridden one? I`ve got one Cracking bike it is too, did 3k miles round Europe this year with no bother, CC was a winner on those long Belgian motorways and the popping and banging of the oe can down those passes in the Alps was grin inducing Probably gonna get the suspension fettled over the winter for better handling and to suit the weight of what I carry and some PR3`s very soon when the EXP`s are finally dead after 7k

THAT'S what I was curious to know... medium- to long-term ownership experience. Has it been great or terrible? What's gone wrong, how, and why? What did your gut say about the bike when you bought it, and what does it say now?

So the Triumph's a 'clone', and the BMW is too. So what?
There are no 'original' ideas left any more, and with that in mind, we have the best time we can on what's available to us - until someone starts marketing those funky hoverbikes I remember from the second series of 'Robotech' (and yes, I am that old).

At the risk of sounding like I'm leaning on cliches, remember: it's not about what you ride. It's about the fact that you DO ride. :comfort

birdseye · Sep 20, 2013

Bendy toy said:
The Telelever is a Saxon fork. I believe a British design, but cant find any info.
The Duolever (as said) is a Norman Hossack design inspired by racing car suspension.

The Doulglas horizontal twin was designed by W. J. Barter whose company was bought by the Douglas company. It's said to have been licenced to BMW (who in fairness did something with it) but I cant find any source for that information.

I can't think of any manufacturer that has avoided mainstream designs as much as BMW has. The issue is that BMW has at least tried to be different - form following function etc. The others seem to keep on making the same old same old wearing a new dress. The Triumph Explorer is just another "me too" adventure bike. It might be great to use, but it does nothing different from anything that everyone else is doing.

It cant be about cost because a Hossack fork should be about the cheapest way to hang the front end. It's the same issue with DI 2 strokes - how can they be more costly than something like the new BMW LC? It costs a fortune to develop a new engine/bike so why does it always have to be more of the same?

You could argue that the internal combustion engine was a german design originally but so what. All scientific and engineering progress is based on the work of others - no company or nationality has a monopoly on good ideas. Which is why the clone accusation is such a nonsense.

That the GS and Borman started a fashion is beyond debate. Others have cashed in on the trend from sportsbikes to adventure style - Ducati, Aprillia, Honda, Suzuki etc. So have Triumph with both the Explorer and the Tiger 800. I prefer the GS with the 800 coming a very close second on account of its being a more sensible size / weight but IO havent tried the Explorer yet.

The Douglas story as I remember it was that BMW were originally an aircraft propellor manufacturer and since the germans werent allowed to make aircraft post WW1 they needed something to do to keep people in work. They were given a douglas licence but originally they didnt use it for bikes but for other applications. A quote from wiki " In 1920, BMW engineer Max Friz reverse-engineered the engine of foreman Martin Stolle's 1914 Douglas motorcycle and developed a similar 500 cc side-valve flat engine from it.This was the M2B15 "

Mad_Accountant · Sep 20, 2013

It's whatever floats your boat.

If it's got 2 (3?) wheels and an engine it's a bike

Almost any bike is better than no bike

This biggest improvement you can make to any bike is to improve your riding

Ride safe everyone :jibber

autogs · Sep 20, 2013

saxon type fork was invented by a guy called nigel(yes really) on a little farm inear cobham surrey,bm stole the idea after consulting with him about alternative susp arangements.

autogs · Sep 20, 2013

saxon type fork was invented by a guy called nigel(yes really) on a little farm inear cobham surrey,bm stole the idea after consulting with him about alternative susp arangements.

Nick V · Sep 20, 2013

birdseye said:
All scientific and engineering progress is based on the work of others - no company or nationality has a monopoly on good ideas. Which is why the clone accusation is such a nonsense.

+1. It was Isaac Newton who was credited as saying that if he was able to see further than others, it was only because he stood on the shoulders of giants who had gone before him.

birdseye said:
That the GS and Borman started a fashion is beyond debate.

Not really - South Africa and Namibia (which has a relatively high native German population) have been GS-crazy ever since the early '90s. Even today, R1100GSs command respectable prices here, and R80G/Ss and R100GSs advertised for sale never stay on the market for more than three or four days before being snapped up - often by foreign buyers.

I forget what the actual sales statistics are, but as near as I can remember, boxer-twin BMW GSs and GSAs have been responsible for approximately 25% of new-bike sales in SA for over ten years now. They are popular bikes worldwide - but to nowhere near the extent they are in SA. Sales of all other BMW models added together total something like 70% of GS/GSA sales.
I s'pose you could say we're not slow to take notice of a good idea.

I remember people here laughing at 'Long Way Round' and saying: "Are they only catching on NOW?!..."

Mad_Accountant said:
It's whatever floats your boat.

If it's got 2 (3?) wheels and an engine it's a bike

Almost any bike is better than no bike

This biggest improvement you can make to any bike is to improve your riding

Ride safe everyone

Seconded... although I recently sat on a Honda Goldwing trike. Fairly recent model. And take it from me, it's not really a bike: it's a car in disguise.
I would have to constantly remind myself: "It's too damn wide - you CAN'T lane-split!!!"

In the same dealership at the time were a post-facelift K1200LT and, even better, a K1300GT. :bounce1

I'll have one of those, please.

Big Lee · Sep 20, 2013

Nick V said:
THAT'S what I was curious to know... medium- to long-term ownership experience. Has it been great or terrible? What's gone wrong, how, and why? What did your gut say about the bike when you bought it, and what does it say now?

I`ve had mine just over a year and 7k miles. TBH its a great bike, I`ve had a 12GS then a 1050 Tiger and I really like the TEX. It could do with a higher seat altho I do have the Triumph high seat on it and I fitted Givi Trekker boxes and topbox mount so the luggage system imo is far better that Triumphs. A great bike for doing miles on and enjoying the bends when I get there. I`m looking at getting the suspension tweaked as I did with my 12GS and 1050 Tiger, that was really shit oe btw :blast

I had the bike cut out on me a few times but was a dicky rear brake switch and that was sorted otherwise its been ok

birdseye · Sep 21, 2013

No noisy tappet problems?

2009 and 2010 GS Adventures vs. 2014 Triumph Tiger Explorer.

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