2009 ~R1200GS Adventure Steering Damper

Glovepuppet

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Hi All,
Im in need of some advice re the above. I have a 2009 R1200 GS adventure, remapped at Hilltop garage (Best £300 I ever spent) and Hyper pro progressive spring upgrade to the stock ESA suspension.
The old girl has now done 57K miles and in recent years I do a lot of touring around Europe fully loaded with a pillion.
I have noticed when loaded that the front end feels extremely light especially on acceleration, I have also noticed that when doing switchbacks in the Alps when committing fully to an extreme 180 fully loaded Im fighting the steering to stop it folding under.
I just assumed this is something that naturally happens when the bike gets high mileage on her and have thought for some time now that a steering damper would remedy a lot of these conditions. This seems to be borne out by BMW fitting dampers to models 2010 (Twin Cam) onwards.
Now, here is the rub, as the bike was never designed for a steering damper I am now at the mercy of overpriced after market vendors waiting to pounce. I have looked at 2 options and would like any advice from anyone with experience of either of the models.
1) Touratech steering damper with fixing kit. Very simple to install and looks fantastic BUT.... £437
2) GPR4, more complicated to fit looks a bit bulky between the risers and currently £310

Both are extremely expensive but im sure it will improve the ride of the old girl. The bike was bought for me by the wife for my retirement and has been heavily modified as stated earlier including a unique paint job and as such will never sell it so i dont mind giving her the sweeties but i dont want to throw my hard earned at a bad product

Many thanks in advance
 
Check sag front and rear when fully loaded. Sounds to me like you have changed the geometry with load ont he rear that has reduced weight on front end. If that is the problem then the damper won't fix the fundamental problem
 
The fact that you notice a change suggests its more than just a trifling thing.
As you say that its a keeper then you should be prepared to spend on everything at that mileage - tyres/bearings/suspension are all consumables.
And as NicD says (indirectly) you could well have saggy suspension. You have a well used machine.
If it didn`t need a steering damper before then whats changed.
Bite the bullet and get new suspenders.
 
Bem said:
The fact that you notice a change suggests its more than just a trifling thing.
As you say that its a keeper then you should be prepared to spend on everything at that mileage - tyres/bearings/suspension are all consumables.
And as NicD says (indirectly) you could well have saggy suspension. You have a well used machine.
If it didn`t need a steering damper before then whats changed.
Bite the bullet and get new suspenders.
Click to expand...

My guess is the rear end has become too saggy!
 
The 2010 model doesn’t have a steering damper.....this was introduced on the 2014 LC models which are a completely different bike. However, being an owner of a 2013 GSA TC I agree that fully loaded with pillion the hairpins can be interesting, especially uphill as the front is very light...particularly with a light fuel load. It does knock the confidence in the front end grip when trying to haul the old girl around.

My bike was transformed in this regard with a set of Wilbers front and rear shocks tailored to our weight. Made a massive difference suggesting the standard spring is just too soft. So, I wonder if the Hagon could do with a new spring as others have said rather than a damper....much cheaper.
 
Thanks for replies guys. As to the suspension both front and rear units have been fully rebuilt and gassed and Hyperpro progressive springs installed as such the saggy back end issues have all been addressed.
I may have given the impression that the bike is unsafe/unridable, this is far from the truth. I’m trying to iron out small movements I’ve noticed that seem to be emulating from the ease of the handlebars turning.
Although the bike is an 09 the only thing that isn’t buttoned down is this small issue, money has been spent on her and she is in pristine mechanical condition, just wondered if this would improve an already lovely machine with one small glitch
 
It's not the case that because the units were rebuilt the suspension is set up properly. From what you have described the suspension needs to be set up.

Springs don't change length after 50k miles. That isn't the problem.

My guess is the progressive springs are at the root of this. They require different preload to linear springs as the first part of travel is used with less load than the later part. You should contact whomever fitted it and work out how to set the rear preload for progressive spring for 1. rider and 2. fully loaded
 
My bike started tipping into corners very eagerly at low speed, got to watch it on mini roundabouts and when parking, the bars want to come round on to full lock, it's a 2011 twin cam and it's only done 22,000 miles no pillion and no luggage.

I put it down to squared off tyres (metzler tourance next).I've just had a pair of metzler roadtec 01s fitted but i haven't tried them out yet, it was snowing so i removed the the wheels and took them to the fitter(chicken). The ones i took off still had lots of wear left in them but both were well squared off.

I'm confident the new ones will solve the problem. Maybe you've tried new/different tyres, if not, worth considering before splashing out on a steering damper.
 
A steering damper can not add weight over the front and it can't provide more grip on the front tyre. It can and will ruin the feel of the bike.

I'd ensure there's no unusual wear and tear in the suspension, swap tyres, run much higher pressure on the back when you have load / passenger / long high speed trips, and get a longer after market rear shock with both compression and rebound adjustment (only needs to be 5 to 8 mm longer - anymore you'll get issues on centre stand and both wheels touching) and a 160 to 180 nm spring.

I've got an aftermarket WP shock and 175nm spring, its soft and plush, OK with luggage and I never felt the need, even two up, to ever touch preload... till last year, where its was far too soft two up with lots of luggage. I was in Holland and it was stupid and bottomed out lots over their silly bumps riding gently
 
Glovepuppet said:
Thanks for replies guys. As to the suspension both front and rear units have been fully rebuilt and gassed and Hyperpro progressive springs installed as such the saggy back end issues have all been addressed.
I may have given the impression that the bike is unsafe/unridable, this is far from the truth. I’m trying to iron out small movements I’ve noticed that seem to be emulating from the ease of the handlebars turning.
Although the bike is an 09 the only thing that isn’t buttoned down is this small issue, money has been spent on her and she is in pristine mechanical condition, just wondered if this would improve an already lovely machine with one small glitch
Click to expand...

I do get the point but as others have said, not sure you are going to cure this with a steering damper......or if you do it will be to a detrimental effect. Just a thought....were the hyper pro springs bought by you and set for your weight? I know we all keep banging on about this but the problem as you and others have said is weight over the front end.
 
I think we're all a bit mad, its all about the rear spring, (any amount of pre load can't make the spring stiffer)

the stock spring almost copes with a maximum 85kg of load and is around 135nm,

my 175nmn spring and 9mm longer rear shock, works brilliantly between 120kg and 170kg of load (and is like a pillow using damping that lets it move for our shocking roads and for riding at 11/10ths)

two up and lots of luggage you can easily get to 250kg of load and my 175 nm spring was really struggling. Bringing ability to press on down to 4/10ths at best, and I had the centre stand consistently hitting the ground delicately coming off smooth NL speed bumps at 40mph. One Up I'd have happily taken such smooth bumps at 110mph.
 
botus said:
I think we're all a bit mad, its all about the rear spring, (any amount of pre load can't make the spring stiffer)
Click to expand...

There might be a confusion here. A spring of the correct stiffness can be set with too little preload and so can have too much rear sag. Equally, the correct rate spring can have too much preload and too little sag. Generally, if a spring rate is chosen to cover all bases, it will require far less preload for one-up than for fully loaded.

Progressive springs are a bit more of a pain as the rate is not linear meaning sag can be quite high even with some preload. Frankly i don't use progressive springs so cannot advise how to set them up.

However, you are correct that even if you run out of preload adjustement and still ahve too much sag then you need a stiffer spring. For what it's worth I think your spring rate / weight numbers are way off. Nitron spec a 175nm spring for rider+kit weight of 105-110kg, and they make racing shocks eg for Hickman at IoM, so chances of their numbers being right are fairly high.
 
don't disagree with your points, though not sure where your numbers come from

the shock I have used to be available with 3 spring rates 120 standard, 140 for sports, and 160 for mega loads - they stopped availability of a 160nm spring shortly after and dropped back to a hard to obtain 140 max

when I tried the stock 120 it came with, it was pathetic almost unable to hold the bikes own weight. but when I looked the Ohlins standard spring was also 120nm !

At the time I had no idea of the stock spring's rating, but knew it must be more than 120. With the reasoning 120 was a total joke, the stock BM was a lot stiffer than a 120 yet still far too soft and that a 160 used to be about, I guessed at trying a 175nm.... and more or less got it right. But I'd start at 180 if buying another.

Half the problem (I don't subscribe too) is the world thinks it moved to a better place, where the spring only gets the base ride height and the damping does everything.…. which would be where Ohlins and the drop from 160 on my shock comes from.

I can get this MIGHT work on a track, but for real people on real roads, all the vehicles I've driven are useless in the damper fixated disaster that is modern thinking. Drive any modern BMW car hard and the dampers just lock up the movement, thus physics says OK and just flicks the car at the hedge on British roads. So a 1800kg car with soft springs drives OK at 85mph and a modern 1600kg BMW has lost control at 60mph and will literally kill you at 80mph on our back roads.

If you add the adaptive damping every car mag says you need on a BMW. If its set in Comfort... then drive down the road, within 2 miles you'll soon ask yourself where's the comfort setting. When you try sport you have set the navigation for a chiropractor.

When I had a 2017 LC A the suspension was rubbish you needed to use comfort below 35 and sport above then it was as it should have left the factory Not tried the LCD screen with auto adaptive idea but couldn't be much worse
 
Stock BMW spring on 2008 GS is 142 N/mm. My numbers are from BMW, Nitron, Race Tech and Brooks Barn. For 2008 GS a 120 N/mm spring is almost certainly far too soft. Frankly this would only make sense if you were riding exclusively off road and wanted the ride of an American sedan, or if you were a few sandwiches short of a picnic. A 160 is also too soft for fully loaded - a 90kg rider with 5kg of kit on and 10kg luggage would need around a 170 N/mm spring
 
I think your ideas sound about right for a rear spring. But when I said I'd used a 175 a while back, people thought it would be very stiff and asked how I'd come up with such a high number.

Here's an section of catalogue showing this now obsolete rear Ohlins.
This one got a 140nm and the rest they list don't bother to show the spring rate. I have a printed catalogue by Ohlins for the R1200GS listing a 120nm rear spring

https://www.ohlins.com/products/dat...&model_years=4794&categories=4815&models=4882

Category Motorcycle
Product Family STX 46 Adventure
Product Type Shock absorber
Brand BMW Model R 1200 GS
Model Years 2004-2012
Type Code S46DR1
Length 395 mm
Rate N/mm 140 N/mm
Stroke 70,5
Fitted Spring 00698-54
 
Nippy Normans supply Touratech, Wunderlich, Desert Fox and many other makes of accessories.
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