800GS v Tenere
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jtw000
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I really wouldn't view chains, batteries and rad-hoses as faults. They go wrong, they wear out. That's life. A design fault is like in terms of the R1200gs where the antenna ring was constantly failing or the notorious fuel pump controller. Another design fault would be a regulator blowing the entire loom like is occasionally happening on the Tenere. At the end of the day the Tenere has a lot of compromises designed in so they could produce a product they can sell whereas the GS has a lot of components that can fail because a bike has been produced to a cost. For my money only one of those two is worth having.
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I would suggest that there's no real difference between a design fault of a radiator hose that's too short and the design fault of a fuel pump controller that blows. Both bring the bike to a rapid halt and both can spoil a day out or even your annual holiday.
What is extremely disappointing is how long BMW takes to acknowledge faults and bring out a fix--over a year to introduce a longer radiator hose (FFS!) and more than four years in the case of the FPC. And more than 18 months to bring out a (slightly) better chain after more than 35 premature chain failures in the UK.
What is extremely disappointing is how long BMW takes to acknowledge faults and bring out a fix--over a year to introduce a longer radiator hose (FFS!) and more than four years in the case of the FPC. And more than 18 months to bring out a (slightly) better chain after more than 35 premature chain failures in the UK.
Mines only done 7500 completely trouble free miles But according to Tim, it's fecked. Maybe I should go back to my F650GS (Single). I allways rode that with rose tinted glasses. Can you get a Rose Tinted Visor?
Dean
Registered user
He never said that its fecked just highlighted the bits that should have been recalled faster
10,000 here rouble free also
, but its nice to be aware 
jtw000
Registered user
Well if the worst that can be brought to the table is a dodgy hose and a chains that wear out then i'm going to ride mine with a smile on my face.
He never said that its fecked just highlighted the bits that should have been recalled faster
10,000 here rouble free also
I stand corrected. I bought mine after they'd been out for a year. The previous owner had all the mods done (I've checked). However, I do think the recent Ride survey shows how quick some people are to moan, and didn't really show how brilliant a bike it is. It doesn't really compare with the XT660, more like the 1200GS (without the weight).
Dean
Registered user
If your chain is standard, just keep an eye on it I changed mine for the heavy duty DID theres plenty of links here about peoples woes, one guy had an off due to his breaking (second one) luckily the van stopped if you subscribe (£12.00) you can search faster.
But yes ride your bike and smile
Dean
Dean
Registered user
I did not read the Ride survey but did read the 8 pages in Aprils Visor Down is it the same thing
I agree its negative but worse for the F650GS. it just comes over that way as it was based heavy on this forums, survey. people tell of there problems a lot of the time and not the smiley good stuff on balance.
A bit like the soap eastenders doom and gloom always a drama if it was all good it would be boring
read the quote below my post, the F650 and F800 GS are fantastic bikes, enjoy
jtw000
Registered user
I was going to change for a DID anyway, and an Odyssey battery just to be on the safe side. I did hesitate to buy one of these for a long time after having some bad experience with a 1200 which behaved like every other 1200 and played up from day one and still is. I've done my homework and the people who own these seem more than satisfied. There will always be moans on forums, that's what forums are for but the vast majority of the advice I've had is go for it. The negatives have mostly been from people who don't actually have one.
everywherevirtually
Registered user
It's all about attitude. I wasn't happy that my radiator top hose came adrift but It didn't stop the bike. It just leaked a bit. I was more pissed off about the fuel gauge as I'd been left high and dry on 3 occasions but all things considered the overall experience has been good.
I've seen many bikes with dodgy side stand switches and that includes Kawasaki, Honda, Suzuki and KTM so I reckon if you take a bike into the dirt it is almost a given. Chains... well I got 17,000 miles out of mine. It was crappy but it's a consumable. Again wheel bearings. They shouldn't go that soon but who knows if people are blasting them with a jet wash or getting salt and grit into them. There are many variables such as how a bike is ridden, how it is cleaned and generally maintained.
BMW had this scene in mind for the F650GS...
and perhaps not this...
I know they are similar to the F800GS with respect to engine and fuel tank etc but perhaps the bearings and other consumables are designed for light ladylike use
. I also accept that the same components are used on the 800 and they have also gone wrong but anecdotaly it would appear the 800 is the tougher bike.
I should add this is not a dig at Tim or Puma.
just an observation on BMW's marketing and intended use. The F650GS was cheap for a reason. That reason is cheap consumables and if the bikes are getting more than light use it appears that these things are going wrong on a semi regular basis.
I've seen many bikes with dodgy side stand switches and that includes Kawasaki, Honda, Suzuki and KTM so I reckon if you take a bike into the dirt it is almost a given. Chains... well I got 17,000 miles out of mine. It was crappy but it's a consumable. Again wheel bearings. They shouldn't go that soon but who knows if people are blasting them with a jet wash or getting salt and grit into them. There are many variables such as how a bike is ridden, how it is cleaned and generally maintained.
BMW had this scene in mind for the F650GS...
and perhaps not this...
I know they are similar to the F800GS with respect to engine and fuel tank etc but perhaps the bearings and other consumables are designed for light ladylike use
. I also accept that the same components are used on the 800 and they have also gone wrong but anecdotaly it would appear the 800 is the tougher bike.I should add this is not a dig at Tim or Puma.
just an observation on BMW's marketing and intended use. The F650GS was cheap for a reason. That reason is cheap consumables and if the bikes are getting more than light use it appears that these things are going wrong on a semi regular basis.
I did not read the Ride survey but did read the 8 pages in Aprils Visor Down is it the same thing
I agree its negative but worse for the F650GS. it just comes over that way as it was based heavy on this forums, survey. people tell of there problems a lot of the time and not the smiley good stuff on balance.
A bit like the soap eastenders doom and gloom always a drama if it was all good it would be boring
read the quote below my post, the F650 and F800 GS are fantastic bikes, enjoy
OOOPS! Yes, I meant Visordown.
Any bike bought in it's first year will have some faults, and maybe BM have more than others, but a blown FPC is alot more serious than a slightly leaky Rad Hose. It's easy to top a radiator to get you home, even tape it up if needed, but the FPC can leave you totally stranded. I know there a little relay bypass thing available now, but that wasn't the case in the first year the bike was made.
I had trouble with the sidestand (the stand not the switch), the fuel guage has caught me out once, the chain was fecked after 4000 miles, but all these problems were sorted straight away by BMW, and having owned 5 yamahas, I never got nearly as good a service from them.
I had all the other recalls done, axl, rad hose etc, but they never caused me any problems anyway.
My only serious problem is not being able to disconnect the battery, seems really daft to be honest. I'd rather not need to bring it back to BMW every time.
jtw000
Registered user
In terms of service, what you get from Yamaha and BMW is worlds apart. I don't know if all dealers are the same but the ones I have gone into have blown me away, they could not be more helpful. On the other hand my brother has bought several new Yams and the service was ok but not in the same league. He didn't have either for more than a few months (what does that tell you).
BMW could respond more quickly to faults, nobody could argue that and the FPC failure was a big worry. Having said that, mine is an 04 and never once went wrong on a bike used daily in all conditions including river crossings and if you actually look at the problem in a global sense from their point of view proportionally very few bikes actually were effected. Eventually BMW did bring out a completely new FPC that relegated the problem to the annuls of antiquity. I love Triumphs but they have their faults and when a replacement part was made for a fuel connector that kept breaking we had to pay for it and it wasn't cheap. My brother had a KTM and the customer service there was shocking. The bike would not run from new and blew the oil seals. In the 9 months he had it it was in his garage around 3 months but could not be ridden for most of them. In the end they gave him a new engine but that didn't fix the problem. He had to sell the bike back to them in the end, they refused to help him in any other way and he is still waiting for a refund against an exhaust he bought from them for it now which is years later. In terms of service when he bought his new Tenere he was invited to take one round the block but was given only enough fuel for around 10 minutes driving. Compare that to BMW who offered me a bike for the day. When he bought the Tenere he slowly began to hate its short comings but when I had a BMW I grew to love it. BMW give you a test drive for a day because they know you're going to come back and want one because the bikes are generally very good. Yamaha don't for the same reason.
No bike is perfect and no manufacturer is going to be either but BMW are better than most.
BMW could respond more quickly to faults, nobody could argue that and the FPC failure was a big worry. Having said that, mine is an 04 and never once went wrong on a bike used daily in all conditions including river crossings and if you actually look at the problem in a global sense from their point of view proportionally very few bikes actually were effected. Eventually BMW did bring out a completely new FPC that relegated the problem to the annuls of antiquity. I love Triumphs but they have their faults and when a replacement part was made for a fuel connector that kept breaking we had to pay for it and it wasn't cheap. My brother had a KTM and the customer service there was shocking. The bike would not run from new and blew the oil seals. In the 9 months he had it it was in his garage around 3 months but could not be ridden for most of them. In the end they gave him a new engine but that didn't fix the problem. He had to sell the bike back to them in the end, they refused to help him in any other way and he is still waiting for a refund against an exhaust he bought from them for it now which is years later. In terms of service when he bought his new Tenere he was invited to take one round the block but was given only enough fuel for around 10 minutes driving. Compare that to BMW who offered me a bike for the day. When he bought the Tenere he slowly began to hate its short comings but when I had a BMW I grew to love it. BMW give you a test drive for a day because they know you're going to come back and want one because the bikes are generally very good. Yamaha don't for the same reason.
No bike is perfect and no manufacturer is going to be either but BMW are better than most.
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It might be easy to top up a radiator but not if you are stranded on the hard shoulder of the M3 at the time. If you are carrying tape and a bit of wire you can work around the FPC as well which is what I did in Morocco. But for most people either of these bring you to a halt.
I'm not trying to minimise the FPC seriousness, I do have a 'slight' bit of experience in this area.
I wonder if you're paying a premium for the dealer arse licking...do you think ?
PS it depends entirely on the dealer you choose
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I know they are similar to the F800GS with respect to engine and fuel tank etc but perhaps the bearings and other consumables are designed for light ladylike use
I don't know how you got that impression, if you read the chain failure thread you will see that there are 23 failures affecting the 800GS, 6 affecting the 650GS and another 9 where I'm not sure of the model.
The unexpected stalling issue affected far more 800GS riders than 650GS, the wheel bearing failure wasn't such a big issue in the UK as in the US, but over here affected the same number of 800s and 650s. I haven't bothered to analyse the fuel guage problems but I don't imagine for one moment that it's a 650-only problem.
I should add this is not a dig at Tim or Puma.
The F800GS was more expensive because of some of the items fitted such as
- a plastic bashplate
- upside-down but still not adjustable front forks
- a 'much higher' windshield
- big GS letters on the side.
Dean
Registered user
It's all about attitude. I wasn't happy that my radiator top hose came adrift but It didn't stop the bike. It just leaked a bit. I was more pissed off about the fuel gauge as I'd been left high and dry on 3 occasions but all things considered the overall experience has been good.
I've seen many bikes with dodgy side stand switches and that includes Kawasaki, Honda, Suzuki and KTM so I reckon if you take a bike into the dirt it is almost a given. Chains... well I got 17,000 miles out of mine. It was crappy but it's a consumable. Again wheel bearings. They shouldn't go that soon but who knows if people are blasting them with a jet wash or getting salt and grit into them. There are many variables such as how a bike is ridden, how it is cleaned and generally maintained.
BMW had this scene in mind for the F650GS...
and perhaps not this...
I know they are similar to the F800GS with respect to engine and fuel tank etc but perhaps the bearings and other consumables are designed for light ladylike use
I should add this is not a dig at Tim or Puma.
Dear Jon,
I know your not having a dig
and I realy do love you F800GS GirliesBut ......
Your right it is about attitude, I,m kinda glad that you guys are out there doing the higher milage me only on 10K finding the relevant weaknesses and reporting them here it helps us all. As you point out we share so much frame seat engine the dreaded chain, small screens still its good to farkle and share
I'm not sure what you meant by the scene that BMW had in mind but I guess it kinda follows through the range.
and you mean this
maybe this advertising
or some snaps of real life maybe Malcolms Play Day
mine loaded for solo camping
You are right in saying its cheaper as its the entry level its got to entice the buyer to buy but if your trying to say the F650GS has cheaper parts compared to the very same parts on the F800GS then your delusional
I supose you could say that the F650 is a better road bike, tubeless tyres are a easier fix on the travel, theres better miles per gallon, and because the engine is tuned to 71 BHP and not the 85 BHP it could probably wear better and longer without problems. Not to mention the F800GS being a bigger seller as the 1100,1150,1200 guys switching across to the F800GS, the F650 will hold its price in a more stable market so its a win win situation. Its a shame that people deny themselves the unstopable F650 GS twin,
But Denial is not just a river that runs through Egypt
I supose the F800GS does have 50mm more suspension travel on the front and 45mm on the back but that probably makes it slower in the twisties
(cant wait to get my ohlins fitted) Yours Sincerely,
Dean
everywherevirtually
Registered user
Dear Jon,
I know your not having a dig
But ......
Your right it is about attitude, I,m kinda glad that you guys are out there doing the higher milage me only on 10K finding the relevant weaknesses and reporting them here it helps us all. As you point out we share so much frame seat engine the dreaded chain, small screens still its good to farkle and share
I'm not sure what you meant by the scene that BMW had in mind but I guess it kinda follows through the range.
This is not an F650GS?
Neither is this?
and you mean this
maybe this advertising
or some snaps of real life maybe Malcolms Play Day
mine loaded for solo camping
As for the rest of the photos they are not the marketing photos from BMW. The official photos from BMW were targeting new riders and first time female riders.
When I sat on the various bikes in the showroom they were pushing me towards the F650GS because I'm a short arse. But I'm a designer and get swayed by aesthetics and maybe I'm an idiot but I preferred the looks of the F800GS. It's just down to personal taste.
I'm not saying the F650GS is only for women and they cant ride anything else. I am merely saying that it is an entry bike for new riders or a bike for people that want to downsize to something more manageable away from the larger GS's.
Dean
Registered user
Hi again Jon,
The F650GS is the entry level bike and as such it caters for a whole variety of people, short legged, new rider, 32 Hp power reduction (learners), commuters, but also is a great bike for travellers a far as you well know.
I would go as to say its the best bike I have ever owned and the farkeling makes it better
I know you have the low seat fitted, and also a lot of woman opt for the F800 a people few still do not know the f650 is a 800. i dont consider you or anybody a idiot and I agree the F800 looks the part very nice looking but unfortunately its not to far away from the F650 to be honest ive ridden few I didnt get that wow this is much better feeling
to be honest my farkles have gone beyond the bland standardIm still relatively new here i cant tell if some ones taking the pish, or a knob talking Gok, maybe its the same thing
I dont judge anyone, hey its there ride
after twenty odd years im back to bike enjoying riding, reading and traveling bike its like the quote below
all the best,
Dean
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