850R - Non start after storage

[Raven]

Hi - If anyone can help here it would be great.

I am trying to get an 850R running that has been in storage for 3 years. It was running just fine before then but I doubt the fuel system was emptied before storage.

There is a good spark, just not enough fuel being delivered by the injectors. I have run them in fresh air, and only minimal fuel being delivered. Fuel pump seems to pressurise briefly when ignition is on, but if the injector is disconnected from the fuel supply, there is nothing present.

The bike is a 2004 year, and seems to have a fuel regulator between the tank and the injectors, although I cant get to it.

Does anyone have any ideas?
The bike runs briefly if I introduce fuel through the air box....

 

[ghiribizzo]

Been there done that.

New fuel. New fuel filter. Get injectors cleaned by specialist company. Try a search on here. Or get known used ones from Motorworks.

 

[DrFarkoff]

If you are sure it is the fuel supply Remove the fuel and remove the tank

there is a plate on the inside right side of the tank

CAREFULLY clean and lube the studs really well If they are tight more lube don;t force them

Undo them

Slightly lift the plate at the inside lower rear you will see two small pipes undo the clips and remove them

Lift the plate / pump flange by careful twisting

You may find the hoses perished or something blocked or as I have found the hose blown off the filter

 

[Raven]

Hi - If anyone can help here it would be great.

I am trying to get an 850R running that has been in storage for 3 years. It was running just fine before then but I doubt the fuel system was emptied before storage.

There is a good spark, just not enough fuel being delivered by the injectors. I have run them in fresh air, and only minimal fuel being delivered. Fuel pump seems to pressurise briefly when ignition is on, but if the injector is disconnected from the fuel supply, there is nothing present.

The bike is a 2004 year, and seems to have a fuel regulator between the tank and the injectors, although I cant get to it.

Does anyone have any ideas?
The bike runs briefly if I introduce fuel through the air box....

......

Thanks so far - I should add, that if I disconnect the fuel supply from the tank, before it splits off to the injectors, there is plenty of fuel being delivered, so I feel sure the problem must be between the fuel supply tube and the injector end.

Has anyone had any issues with the regulator? Any ideas how to get to it?

Thanks

 

[ghiribizzo]

just not enough fuel being delivered by the injectors. I have run them in fresh air, and only minimal fuel being delivered.

if the injector is disconnected from the fuel supply, there is nothing present.

Can we clear this up: If the injectors are plugged in and the bike is cranked over, you say 'minimal fuel'.
Second part - if it's disconnected 'nothing is present'. Do you mean hard plastic pipe off the injector, crank the motor, no great gouts of fuel coming out pipe?

- Are the hoses from the tank on the correct way? Is there any doubt at all here?

- Have you changed the fuel filter? No? Change it.

- As DrFarkoff says - check the pipes inside (carefully) but I'd like to know the info. for the above!

 

[Raven]

......

Thanks so far - I should add, that if I disconnect the fuel supply from the tank, before it splits off to the injectors, there is plenty of fuel being delivered, so I feel sure the problem must be between the fuel supply tube and the injector end.

Has anyone had any issues with the regulator? Any ideas how to get to it?

Thanks

More details:

Injector plugged into electrical supply but pulled away from throttle body - Very small amounts of fuel present. Nothing like what is normally present - but injector is pulsing.

Fuel supply checked from tank by disconnecting fuel feed pipe - loads of fuel. Not possible to cross input and return as they are handed.

Injector disconnected from fuel feed, only fuel residue present. Fuel pump turned on - no fuel delivered. Tried sucking on hose - feels blocked.

I will check the pipes in the tank as you suggest.

Thanks again for the help

 

[Bendy toy]

You may have already done this but anyway -

When you do get the injectors running, old fuel will never run properly. There might also be water in the fuel so it should be fully drained.

Try running injectors cleaner through the injectors. If possible squirt it through from the spray can, or connect a temporary bottle to the fuel pump. Solvent such as acetone might shift any old fuel varnish.

 

[Comfy Old Boots]

So, is it the regulator?

 

[Ian J Hartley]

I don't think this will work, so I hope some one will correct me on the logic, and the mechanics.

I'm thinking that the fuel regulator is stuck and porting all the fuel back to the tank, so little is getting to the injectors. If you disconnect the fuel return line, it should have a check valve to keep it closed, but if not cap the line. When you run the pump you get full pump pressure at the regulator, and as there is no way to release excess pressure, might this increased pressure be enough to unstick the regulator and port fuel at pump pressure to the injectors?

From what I can gather, the fuel regulator is a simple device with no external connections. So it probably has a spring and diaphragm arrangement. Of cause that's a bit simplistic, because I know they are a bit more complicated than that (calibrated orifices and such), but short of replacing it what have you got to loose.

If this does unstick the thing, I would still look at replacing it. Water could have got into it over the years from the bad fuel and screwed it up.

 

[DrFarkoff]

Diagnosing stuff from the internet is really difficult because you get the original posters thoughts and not the hands on "feel" of the bike

Not the best option "but" if you unplug the tank connector for the return line to the tank that will stop the return flow

and turn the ignition on then off the surge "may" do it

try that a few times but just quickly as that's up top 30psi of fuel

Reconnect the return line and try again

A dose of redex is better than messing with acetone!

Also Wynn's Dri fuel will sort any possible water

 

[MikeO]

I believe the post 2004 850R uses the same fuel rail system as the 1150 - one here...

Mike

 

[Raven]

Thanks Ian / Dr F

I know its difficult - but thanks for trying to help. The advice ref a stuck regulator makes sense as I have tried to blow / suck fuel through in various different arrangements and the only free flow is between the injector feeds.

I'm having another go at it on wednesday - so will let you know.

Much appreciated

Rob

 

[Comfy Old Boots]

Great bikes these. Slow but comfy with loads of torque.

You get it started yet?!!

 

[Raven]

Was worth a try!
Disconnected the tank return, and also both fuel feeds to the injectors, switched ignition on - pump primed, but no fuel came out. Cranked engine - no fuel came out.
Even sucked on one of the injector feeds and it was blocked.

Feel sure its the regulator - but getting to it looks fun.

Thanks for the suggestions, will look at transporting the bike back to my place so I can get a good look at it in the right environment.
If I ever get to the bottom of it - will post.

 

[DrFarkoff]

Just before you go down that route take the fuel pump plate off and check that the filter hasn;t split or a fuel` hose perished !

You may find with the lines disconnected it can push fuel thru but once the lines are reconnected it sprays the fuel back into the tank rather than down the fuel lines

a much more likely scenario that a spring and a diaphragm getting stuck in the absence of air / oxygen?

 

[Comfy Old Boots]

Listen, raven, don't pay heed to any of my posts. I'm an enthusiast not an expert. I do know one thing. The knee bones connected to the etc...

Don't go ripping out the regulator without getting a second opinion. My r850r (59,000 miles- 14 years old) was telling me with the help of the Internet, that the fuel pump, regulator, fuel injectors, hall sensors and battery were sned. It was ready for a box of matches today it's just a dirty big lump of metal in the rear tyre.

In the end, it turned out to be a battery that was just toast. New battery and running great. Starts first time like she used to! Still slow but..! I'm sure you know bikes better than me but Have you put another battery you can trust in it? Perhaps you could buy a good battery and check it?

As Ogmios said to me about a decade ago, "always look for the simple stuff first"

Random r850r fact. The 1999 r850r's tank is bigger than the red r1100r's That I replaced my rotten tank with. Better looking too;(

 

[Comfy Old Boots]

I just ment to say its probably just a small thing keeping you off the road. And yes. I need new tyres. Any suggestions? Don't want another set of roadtecs

 

[ghiribizzo]

I've a set of Conti Road Attacks to go on my R - once the gearbox is back in...

 

[Comfy Old Boots]

Another r850r owner. That makes 3 in this thread? Anyone got a working steering damper for sale?

Mind you, touch wood, my box is fine. And, if that doesn't work 'love the box your...'

...Never mind

 

[ghiribizzo]

Ah well, it's an 11 actually. With a Wilbers damper up front.
The gearbox was well worn by previous ham-footed/fisted owner. Needed some tlc. Almost ready to go back together...