A Shocked TMF

[Wonkey donkey]

I don’t normally respond to the lunatics, but you do seem to have some issues old chap.

C'mon Nutter don't get personal, where's your sense of humour

You have to admit you have swum against the tide on this one, and others have questioned your appraisal of the video and outcome. You may be defending friends, for all I know, but for the life of me I don't get it.

 

[mrtee43]

Not at all Steve, read post #230

He wasn’t throwing his toys out in the video, my point is that he actually posted the video.

My point, which you seem to overlook, is that he is a video blogger with many positive videos posted about his GS and other GS models. Why should he not post what happened or are you saying he should have kept his mouth shut and deceived his many viewers ?

Imagine the outcry, if he did keep quiet and it was later discovered that he got a new shock out of warranty but Joe public get told to stump up.

He was being honest, do you criticize him for that ?

 

[Blackal]

I watched the video early on, and didn't note any great whining from the fella (and I'm not a fan of his on-bike commentaries in general)

What's brilliant in this thread - is, all the folk who are desperate for this to be a scandal!

Yes - Poor performance initially by the dealer, but well-rectified.

Not good enough, it seems - cos "They only did that cos he's famous, init!"

Al

 

[sagalout]

No idea? It’s a new technology on bikes so I accept it will cost more than a shock with adjustable pre-load, comp, rebound etc, but £1800 just seems incredible.

It’s been on GS’s for 10 years now, so not that new. I quite like it on my GS and use the different settings quite a bit (more than I could be bothered if it was manual). Mines 6 years old now and whilst I haven’t had any issues with the ESA part the springs are corroded and no doubt it’s lost some of its plushness. It’s over at firefox being refurbed with Hyperpro springs at the moment for about £300 per shock. You’d have to be nuts to pay OEM prices when even Ohlins is about the same.

Having said all that, on my S1000RR I prefer manual suspension as it gets more use on track and I like fiddling about with it.

 

[RedRick Esq.]

Never mind TMF
Take him and his video out of the equation for a moment and look at the numbers of these shocks that are failing at very low mileage.

There is either a problem with the technology, this is the semi active damping etc, in as much as it is too fragile currently or BMW are taking the piss and using shoddy products at a huge price to the end user.

I dont hear about the Ducati skyhook system failing in any way the same as BMW.

If i had a three or 4 year old bike with less than 20k on it and was faced with a £2500 bill to fix it to a safe and useable state i would be very very pissed off.

On the other hand if BMW accept that there is a problem and are prepared to replace every knackered ESA shock in the way they have TMFs then fair enough but i doubt they will as they just see their customers as cash cows

 

[Nutty]

My point, which you seem to overlook, is that he is a video blogger with many positive videos posted about his GS and other GS models. Why should he not post what happened or are you saying he should have kept his mouth shut and deceived his many viewers ?

Imagine the outcry, if he did keep quiet and it was later discovered that he got a new shock out of warranty but Joe public get told to stump up.

He was being honest, do you criticize him for that ?

I’ve seen some of his videos, and he does seem to like the GS/ GSA. My point is that in the days of social media, it’s very easy to wreck the reputation of a business, very quickly. As he hadn’t even spoken to the people at the top, to dicuss the issue, I don’t think it’s very fair to post the negative video.

At the end of the day, the bike was two years out of warranty, and self serviced, so BMW have every right to refuse the claim. But they have stepped up, and fixed the bike at no cost to TMF.

If people have a bike out of warranty, which then develops a fault, I doubt there would be many that would expect the fault to be repaired free of charge.

I’m not criticising him for being honest, I’m criticising him for posting the video before escalating the issue with the correct people. As I said before, if he’d spoken to the top brass, and they refused the claim, then post the video on YouTube if he so desires, but the bike is still two years out of warranty. I’m just surprised at all the BMW/ dealer flaming on an out out of warranty bike.

Anyway, I’ll carry on enjoying my KTM, and leave you lot to it.

 

[jj65]

Right - this is shooting ourselves in the foot somewhat but hey, in for a penny......

So TMF bought the bike from us, we know him well (on the sales side at least), he's been very complimentary about us and BMW Motorrad in his previous videos - it's fair to say that he is a good customer. Why we didn't go further to help him on this particular occasion is very, very frustrating. From our side, lessons have been learnt to try and understand what a customer is going to do when presented with an unexpected cost such as this. A little bit of empathy goes a long way under these circumstances. The cost is expensive but that is what we pay to buy the part from BMW. The component shouldn't fail but it can happen, as we know. Sachs is a good manufacturer but there will be a spectrum of failures across age and mileage - hopefully with the majority being much older and with many more miles.

BMW will support (and would have supported - regardless of it being a vlogger or not) the repair, which makes it more frustrating really. Our offer is we sort this out so that TMF gets a new shock of known origin - we haven't spoken to Andy about this yet but it would hopefully allow him to recoup his outlay if he can sell the shock on.

The conversation on here has drifted off into the realms of legal proceedings and the likes and the comments are right in that a warranty or goodwill are just there to support your legal rights, not replace them. BMW are very good at supporting customers (generally) and we would normally try and apply common sense - we just completely missed the opportunity to make something good out of a disappointing situation on this occasion. It's easy to say that this isn't how we normally look after our customers....

I think the point about not fitting a second-hand component is ok. I think asking TMF to sign to say he was taking the bike away with an unresolved fault is ok too.

An interesting situation that highlights that we always have the opportunity to learn more.

I'm sure there will be plenty more comments.

Congratulations on doing the right thing I would like to ask you a few things though, why did it take someone from another branch to react, would you have done it for another “good customer” and what constitutes a “good customer” rather than just a customer, I would hope your answer would be, of course we would.

Can you tell us why bmw’s Great customer service has let other owners down, that have had premature component failure, be that suspension or any other part? Why isn’t it policy that goodwill gestures aren’t the first response to premature failure, no mater what use the bikes had, if the part is expected to last 50000 miles?!, in its intended use, then 19500 miles is not a satisfactory life expectation, is it. Why are these parts not serviceable with parts freely available, if I didn’t change the oil in the engine, when required, it’s going to wear out and have failures, so make these expensive parts serviceable and part of the service schedule.

 

[Nice 'n' Fat]

My point, which you seem to overlook, is that he is a video blogger with many positive videos posted about his GS and other GS models. Why should he not post what happened or are you saying he should have kept his mouth shut and deceived his many viewers ?

Imagine the outcry, if he did keep quiet and it was later discovered that he got a new shock out of warranty but Joe public get told to stump up.

He was being honest, do you criticize him for that ?

We don't yet know fully what the outcome is

We do know he will get a replacement shock

We don't know who will be paying for it. Will be a 3 way split on costs (which is quite normal in any post warranty situations)

Many reading, this probably won't know, that it is not procedural for the dealer to automatically offer to make a goodwill claim (for an out of warranty item) to the manufacturer without the customer first requesting it. And before anybody says "how the fuck will they know?" I can assure you, that from time to time, they (the manufacturer) do call the customers and check

We don't know what happened on the day or what was said during the lead up time to his visit but we do know that the situation was handled badly which is something that has been acknowledged by Bahnstormers and will be learnt from See #220

I am very surprised that TMF didn't take it further on the day but instead decided to make and up load a video without first exploring every avenue to get his situation rectified. And as I've already said in #224 "I bet if he was requesting a landing at White Waltham and the answer came back as "negative" he wouldn't accept it"

My Dad once said to me "A man who never made a mistake, never made fuck all"

I think there are lesson to be learnt by all parties here

 

[Blackal]

All the people - trying to nail down the terms and conditions of a "goodwill gesture".

It is entirely on a case-by-case basis, and two identical faults, at two different dealers for two different customers - can have different goodwill.

If you want "Terms and conditions" - take out a warranty! Do not expect any company to spell out what constitutes "Goodwill" ahead of an individual event.

 

[RedRick Esq.]

At the end of the day, the bike was two years out of warranty, and self serviced,

When did the rear shock become an item that has anything done to it at routine service ?

The main point here, regardless of what a dealer did or didn't do, is that the feckin shock should not fail at that mileage. Too many do which screams that there is a problem with them be that BMWs fault or Sachs

Whilst ever BMW customers accept failing shocks at 20 or 30K miles as part of the ownership experience BMW will keep on cheapening

 

[mrtee43]

Nutty, have you ever owned a bike or vehicle (not leased) that was older than the warranty period ?

 

[Nice 'n' Fat]

All the people - trying to nail down the terms and conditions of a "goodwill gesture".

It is entirely on a case-by-case basis, and two identical faults, at two different dealers for two different customers - can have different goodwill

Agreed, but you forget to mention the all important customer attitude test and vehicle service history

It doesn't help your case to be requesting a goodwill contribution, when the last time your vehicle was in the dealership, was at the PDI

 

[malcopopolo]

lots of good comments on here.

However the crux of the matter is!
1, Why are rears shocks failing at less than 20k miles
2, Why do BMW quote £1800 plus labour to replace.
3, Why cant the ESA shocks be serviced/repaired by a BMW dealer even if they are sent away.
4, What is the failure rate on GS LC models?

We need to remember that the mighty GS is advertised as unstoppable. When my rear shock failed at 16K miles it was 6 weeks before a two week trip.

 

[Blackal]

Agreed, but you forget to mention the all important customer attitude test and vehicle service history

It doesn't help your case to be requesting a goodwill contribution, when the last time your vehicle was in the dealership, was at the PDI

I just didn't elaborate - but of course, someone who has had the bike serviced according to schedule with a particular dealer - should start off on the right note.

 

[Karlos]

I’m enjoying this thread, there seems to be some die hard BMW and Bahnstormer fans on here. Someone even suggested that TMF should have raised it with someone else at Bahnstormer; they are wrong if you speak to a representative of a company the level of the representative shouldn’t matter. As for a shock failing, it sounds like the electronics have failed, which is not acceptable.

It shouldn’t matter if the bike was never serviced as the rear shock isn’t serviceable, all you can do is look at it.

Long story short, the shocks are failing prematurely and this is BMW’s fault. Under UK law the seller is responsible and having the component fail in less than 6 years is not acceptable, and the dealer is liable. It’s good to see they have honoured their obligations, but this should have been the default position not all this tooing and froing on the issue.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Nutty]

Nutty, have you ever owned a bike or vehicle (not leased) that was older than the warranty period ?

Yes, several. Why?

 

[sven]

My ESA rear shock absorber failed completely at 16500 miles, six months out of warranty.

It had been temperamental from new (harsh ride or the preload adjuster going down whilst parked up) and I'd complained at the 6k service. They couldn't find anything amiss at the time, but thankfully Allan Jefferies had noted my complaint on the system, so after initially wanting to charge me £1500 for a new one, BMW agreed to change it FOC.

Six months later after a tour of Ireland last april it became harsh again It's been recalibrated and seems better, but not as plush as it was new

 

[malcopopolo]

I believe they use gas for the damping hence the seal leaks

Of course i could be talking B*llox as ususal

 

[GIMLET]

Shocking

After reading through this thread, I was amazed at the behaviour of some.
TMF posted a video of his experience which highlighted the outrageous cost of a replacement shock.
He sourced one else where and got back on the road, same as we all would have done.

He has always been positive when commenting on the service of the dealer involved and even though a hic up occurred this time, they stood up and put it right.
Good result and well done to them.

Sad part of this whole affair, is the racists, bigots and the down right abusive trash that crawled from under their rocks and had nothing positive to say.

You should look back and 're read the whole thread and you may then be as embarresed as myself with what so called educated intelligent people think is ok to write.

And no,I don't know the dealer or TMF personally before it's suggested.

 

[fredaroony]

After reading through this thread, I was amazed at the behaviour of some.
TMF posted a video of his experience which highlighted the outrageous cost of a replacement shock.
He sourced one else where and got back on the road, same as we all would have done.

He has always been positive when commenting on the service of the dealer involved and even though a hic up occurred this time, they stood up and put it right.
Good result and well done to them.

Sad part of this whole affair, is the racists, bigots and the down right abusive trash that crawled from under their rocks and had nothing positive to say.

You should look back and 're read the whole thread and you may then be as embarresed as myself with what so called educated intelligent people think is ok to write.

And no,I don't know the dealer or TMF personally before it's suggested.

Pretty normal for this forum...