A Shocked TMF

[Chunkstar]

Sorry but it would be all makes the good will is from the dealer pushing the maker but they dont push everytime.
I look at lots of forums for motorbikes and cars most have threads very similar and most dont get it sorted by the maker most have it out with dealers some bend over some don't.
The shock going at that miles on a bike which is designed to do so much more is a shock "no pun" but its the price i would be most upset by,I wouldnt expect it fixed for free and just because he does you tube shouldnt mean he gets treated any different to any one else.
A warrwnty period is just that AND THE BIKE is out of it so best you could hope is a gesture

 

[Giles]

I own and run an independent garage ....

Yeah .... You're famous ...... we spoke to your boss while he was having his lunch ..




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[Warlord]

A warranty period is just that AND THE BIKE is out of it so best you could hope is a gesture

Absolute bollocks

A warranty period is a manufacturers made up system to divert you away from your real consumer rights in UK Law.

UK Law is your consumer rights enforcement, not the made up warranty bollocks.

If you don't get what you want, and while you're pissing about arguing in the warranty system, your real consumer rights are ebbing away in the background.

Just depends whether your up for a fight with the tossers, if it gets to that point....

 

[Chunkstar]

So how long should a wear and tear item last then?
I said it should last longer so does the law say a time ?could you take them to court in 5 years and say you expected to last longer ?!?

 

[RedRick Esq.]

So how long should a wear and tear item last then?
I said it should last longer so does the law say a time ?could you take them to court in 5 years and say you expected to last longer ?!?

I think there is a test o9f what would be considered reasonable !

I dont happen to believe that 20K miles in 4 years is reasonable for it to fail.

If tested BMW could provide all the figures of failed shocks and mileages etc to prove that they all do that sir and it is therefore reasonable to expect it to fail

 

[Warlord]

So how long should a wear and tear item last then?
I said it should last longer so does the law say a time ?could you take them to court in 5 years and say you expected to last longer ?!?

UK Law says you can make a claim for 'unfit for purpose' up to 6 years after purchase.

However, a decision will be made based on the circumstances surrounding the claim. Like value of the item, its intended use, its actual use, maintenance etc.

Judges apply common sense and applied law based on the information presented to them.

So if you claim in 5 years time that your dish scourer broke, and it cost you £0.99 then forget it. You got good use out of it.

If you claim that a BMW Suspension component failed at less than 20,000 miles and costs £1800 to replace, even with full Service History (when in actual fact the part that actually broke, like a valve, only costs £3.50 but is unserviceable) then you could argue that £1800 is totally unreasonable (for a single component) and it should last longer, or be able to be fixed at a component level. Especially if BMW Market the bike as a round the world adventure machine capable of amazing things. Well quite frankly, that is not amazing.

It's about expectation and actual results.

 

[Chunkstar]

I think there is a test o9f what would be considered reasonable !

I dont happen to believe that 20K miles in 4 years is reasonable for it to fail.

If tested BMW could provide all the figures of failed shocks and mileages etc to prove that they all do that sir and it is therefore reasonable to expect it to fail

Im not defending bmw and i have no faith any other maker would be different i too would be in the shop asking the dealer principle to do a good well gesture .
i know some people quote laws but it comes down to the man or woman in front of you and their attitude.
you could go to court to recover cost but would you win?

 

[Warlord]

Im not defending bmw and i have no faith any other maker would be different i too would be in the shop asking the dealer principle to do a good well gesture .
i know some people quote laws but it comes down to the man or woman in front of you and their attitude.
you could go to court to recover cost but would you win?

The path of least resistance is always the preferred route. Talk to the dealer, no need to make any threats or get shouty. Just talk with them and or BMW Directly.

If that doesn't work, consider using the Motorcycle Industry Association for Arbitration. If they don't apply to your circumstances. Start the Small Claims route.

Small Claims Court only costs around £45 and it doesn't matter if you loose as no losses can be awarded against you. But in my experience, most settle out of court as they don't want a Judgement against them.

Remember it's a Small Claims Court, not the Crown Court.

 

[Chunkstar]

is the issue that bmw or the dealer didnt even try to help or that it should last longer and they shouldnt even question and give him a new one?if everyone thought they could take everything back then where would it end ?whats the point of having a warranty?As warlord says we should all be taking the makers to court EVERTIME

 

[Warlord]

is the issue that bmw or the dealer didnt even try to help or that it should last longer and they shouldnt even question and give him a new one?if everyone thought they could take everything back then where would it end ?whats the point of having a warranty?As warlord says we should all be taking the makers to court EVERTIME

Yeah, you don't want to become Litigious as a first point of call (unless it's a serious event, in which case go for it). Just be awake and aware this is an option if all else fails. Don't be smoke screened away from it.

Sales of Goods Act, Sales of Goods and Services Act, Distance Selling Regulations, Consumer Credit Act

Are all your friends (or whatever the latest update to those acts are).

 

[Chunkstar]

Yeah, you don't want to become Litigious as a first point of call. Just be awake and aware this is an option if all else fails. Don't be smoke screened away from it.

Sales of Goods Act, Sales of Goods and Services Act, Distance Selling Regulations, Consumer Credit Act

Are all your friends (or whatever the latest update to those acts are).

I find it poor they didnt help him but sorry to say not a bit suprised

 

[Warlord]

I remember a story of Case Law regarding Audi Dealer and an Audi TT Customer.

Something happened with the car and a claim was brought to court (outside the values of Small Claims Court).

The car owner made a case which cost them around £100,000 in legal fees, expert witnesses, testimonials, expert reports.

The Dealer made a case which cost them around £100,000 in legal fees, expert witnesses, testimonials, expert reports.

The Judge told them both to fuck off, as the car was only worth £33,000 in total. Asking them where the common sense was in all this?

 

[wileeeeeey]

I bought a used R1200 GS 18 months ago (traded after 2 weeks for a GSA) and it was a 14 plate on less than 10k miles and had just had the rear shock replaced under warranty.

Sounds like it’s a part that just goes on the GS/A. Another bully tactic to get you to PCP a bike forever and take the extended warranty.

 

[mrtee43]

As the ESA shocks are manufactured by Sachs, shouldn't BMW be getting on to them about the poor quality ? After all, they have form as in the debacle with the RT shocks failing.

If mine goes, and it is still fine after near 23k, I shall have it refurbished at Firefox Racing in Keighley.

I don't know if it makes any difference, but I do cycle mine between one rider and two quite often.

http://firefoxracing.co.uk/bmw-esa-electronic-suspension-adjustment-servicing/

 

[littleade]

As the ESA shocks are manufactured by Sachs, shouldn't BMW be getting on to them about the poor quality ? After all, they have form as in the debacle with the RT shocks failing.

If mine goes, and it is still fine after near 23k, I shall have it refurbished at Firefox Racing in Keighley.

I don't know if it makes any difference, but I do cycle mine between one rider and two quite often.

http://firefoxracing.co.uk/bmw-esa-electronic-suspension-adjustment-servicing/

Cheers for the link-that makes more sense than buying a used one that could do exactly the same thing sooner than you'd like

 

[Bahnstormer8]

Right - this is shooting ourselves in the foot somewhat but hey, in for a penny......

So TMF bought the bike from us, we know him well (on the sales side at least), he's been very complimentary about us and BMW Motorrad in his previous videos - it's fair to say that he is a good customer. Why we didn't go further to help him on this particular occasion is very, very frustrating. From our side, lessons have been learnt to try and understand what a customer is going to do when presented with an unexpected cost such as this. A little bit of empathy goes a long way under these circumstances. The cost is expensive but that is what we pay to buy the part from BMW. The component shouldn't fail but it can happen, as we know. Sachs is a good manufacturer but there will be a spectrum of failures across age and mileage - hopefully with the majority being much older and with many more miles.

BMW will support (and would have supported - regardless of it being a vlogger or not) the repair, which makes it more frustrating really. Our offer is we sort this out so that TMF gets a new shock of known origin - we haven't spoken to Andy about this yet but it would hopefully allow him to recoup his outlay if he can sell the shock on.

The conversation on here has drifted off into the realms of legal proceedings and the likes and the comments are right in that a warranty or goodwill are just there to support your legal rights, not replace them. BMW are very good at supporting customers (generally) and we would normally try and apply common sense - we just completely missed the opportunity to make something good out of a disappointing situation on this occasion. It's easy to say that this isn't how we normally look after our customers....

I think the point about not fitting a second-hand component is ok. I think asking TMF to sign to say he was taking the bike away with an unresolved fault is ok too.

An interesting situation that highlights that we always have the opportunity to learn more.

I'm sure there will be plenty more comments.

 

[Chunkstar]

Right - this is shooting ourselves in the foot somewhat but hey, in for a penny......

So TMF bought the bike from us, we know him well (on the sales side at least), he's been very complimentary about us and BMW Motorrad in his previous videos - it's fair to say that he is a good customer. Why we didn't go further to help him on this particular occasion is very, very frustrating. From our side, lessons have been learnt to try and understand what a customer is going to do when presented with an unexpected cost such as this. A little bit of empathy goes a long way under these circumstances. The cost is expensive but that is what we pay to buy the part from BMW. The component shouldn't fail but it can happen, as we know. Sachs is a good manufacturer but there will be a spectrum of failures across age and mileage - hopefully with the majority being much older and with many more miles.

BMW will support (and would have supported - regardless of it being a vlogger or not) the repair, which makes it more frustrating really. Our offer is we sort this out so that TMF gets a new shock of known origin - we haven't spoken to Andy about this yet but it would hopefully allow him to recoup his outlay if he can sell the shock on.

The conversation on here has drifted off into the realms of legal proceedings and the likes and the comments are right in that a warranty or goodwill are just there to support your legal rights, not replace them. BMW are very good at supporting customers (generally) and we would normally try and apply common sense - we just completely missed the opportunity to make something good out of a disappointing situation on this occasion. It's easy to say that this isn't how we normally look after our customers....

I think the point about not fitting a second-hand component is ok. I think asking TMF to sign to say he was taking the bike away with an unresolved fault is ok too.

An interesting situation that highlights that we always have the opportunity to learn more.

I'm sure there will be plenty more comments.

Pleased that you see it this way and i do see what your saying gives me some confidence back but i do hope that bahnstormer make bmw and other dealers aware and we can all benefit from this "learning" if we are unlucky enough to suffer similar.

 

[Chunkstar]

Also hope that TMF makes a video to update his followers of what the outcome is.

 

[Nice 'n' Fat]

An interesting situation that highlights that we always have the opportunity to learn more

Never a truer word spoken

 

[Warlord]

Right - this is shooting ourselves in the foot somewhat but hey, in for a penny......

So TMF bought the bike from us, we know him well (on the sales side at least), he's been very complimentary about us and BMW Motorrad in his previous videos - it's fair to say that he is a good customer. Why we didn't go further to help him on this particular occasion is very, very frustrating. From our side, lessons have been learnt to try and understand what a customer is going to do when presented with an unexpected cost such as this. A little bit of empathy goes a long way under these circumstances. The cost is expensive but that is what we pay to buy the part from BMW. The component shouldn't fail but it can happen, as we know. Sachs is a good manufacturer but there will be a spectrum of failures across age and mileage - hopefully with the majority being much older and with many more miles.

BMW will support (and would have supported - regardless of it being a vlogger or not) the repair, which makes it more frustrating really. Our offer is we sort this out so that TMF gets a new shock of known origin - we haven't spoken to Andy about this yet but it would hopefully allow him to recoup his outlay if he can sell the shock on.

The conversation on here has drifted off into the realms of legal proceedings and the likes and the comments are right in that a warranty or goodwill are just there to support your legal rights, not replace them. BMW are very good at supporting customers (generally) and we would normally try and apply common sense - we just completely missed the opportunity to make something good out of a disappointing situation on this occasion. It's easy to say that this isn't how we normally look after our customers....

I think the point about not fitting a second-hand component is ok. I think asking TMF to sign to say he was taking the bike away with an unresolved fault is ok too.

An interesting situation that highlights that we always have the opportunity to learn more.

I'm sure there will be plenty more comments.

Don't know who you are, but that post is of the highest calibre in my opinion.

You Sir are a Gent.

Very well done, in my opinion and if that's how you treat customers in the future you deserve great success and support...