ABS - Low Voltage?

[Oldie]

Having read various posts on here about ABS problems I'm still having trouble diagnosing an issue with my 1100.

Switch on ignition and both ABS lights come on together. Start engine and the lights immediately start alternating, indicating a fault. I borrowed a diagnostic tool which suggests that it's a low voltage issue although I installed a brand new, fully charged, battery and the problem persists. Is my next port of call the magnets in the starter motor which, if I've read it correctly, could cause an unusally high draw on the battery? Thanks

 

[blagonadezdins]

...got the same problem and i woud like to know the answer too...

In my opinion it is the starter motor...so i started thinking about this :

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/360485884583?ssPageName=STRK:MESINDXX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1436.l2649

 

[The smudger]

Possibly...

If its ABS2 then it should work like this,

Ignition on. ABS does a 'flash' test. I.e. are you all there? (sensors pump windings etc). If they are all OK then both lamps flash together.

Start engine. Both lights should flash together before the last couple of tests are complete.

Move off. ABS speed sensors are checked for plausibility at 5 kph, if OK pump test then lights out.

ABS2 is voltage sensitive so if the voltage drops below 12v on cranking it will log a fault, where both lights flash alternately.

You need to get a volt drop test done on the starter or measure the current draw when cranking.

It could still be a duff battery but also a bad earth (check for a volt drop on the negative side), or indeed a starter. If you do a search for starter on here someone recently found one on ebay (new) for 35 quid??

Hope this helps,

Steve.

 

[The smudger]

...got the same problem and i woud like to know the answer too...

In my opinion it is the starter motor...so i started thinking about this :

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/360485884583?ssPageName=STRK:MESINDXX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1436.l2649

Thats the one!

 

[Fanum]

Have you by any chance dropped the bike whilst moving recently, or done some naughty wheelies?

It sounds like the abs just needs resetting.

HERE are the instructions

 

[Oldie]

Smudger, when I switch on the ignition both ABS lights come on and stay lit (no flashing). As soon as the bike starts they begin to flash alternately. Stays like that even when I move off. No indication that the ABS is going through it's testing procedure - just seems to identify a fault as soon as the engine is running.

Fanum - yes, I've done the reset a number of times without success. Puzzling.

Blag - yeah, I was looking at the German ebay starter motor too but wanted to check the basics first.

 

[blagonadezdins]

does it do it every single time You start the engine?
What about if You restart it again ?
Mine does it when it is cold but after a while i stop restart the engine and everything is fine.

 

[sidestand]

Are the tail/stop light bulbs working? as they can cause ABS light issues.

 

[The smudger]

Smudger, when I switch on the ignition both ABS lights come on and stay lit (no flashing). As soon as the bike starts they begin to flash alternately. Stays like that even when I move off. No indication that the ABS is going through it's testing procedure - just seems to identify a fault as soon as the engine is running.

Fanum - yes, I've done the reset a number of times without success. Puzzling.

Blag - yeah, I was looking at the German ebay starter motor too but wanted to check the basics first.

Never had that happen? they should flash....

Anyhow, if you have a low voltage fault code youre on the right track. Get the battery/starter checks done, mine does it as well, I start it in the morning, before I start it the lights flash together as they should, as soon as i start the bike they flash opposite, ride a mile or so, switch off, re-start, all OK,

I think its the battery......

 

[Dave78]

I had a similar issue when I had my R1100RS, new battery, was thinking of going for a new starter motor, but then carried out this then no more problems with the ABS on starting

 

[The smudger]

I had a similar issue when I had my R1100RS, new battery, was thinking of going for a new starter motor, but then carried out this then no more problems with the ABS on starting

Good mod.

As I understand it, the ABS is not powered up until the alternator starts charging. Makes sense to me, can't think of any down sides to that, at the moment...

 

[Dave78]

Good mod.

As I understand it, the ABS is not powered up until the alternator starts charging. Makes sense to me, can't think of any down sides to that, at the moment...

Almost, when you crank it kills power to the ABS. So once the engine is running and alternator is charging power to applied to the ABS, hence no more low voltage starts on the ABS from a crank.

I used to get the fail every morning during cold weather, did the mod, then no more fails still during the cold weather and from that point one wards.

If I had another R1100/1150 I'd do the mod again.

 

[DrFarkoff]

I do that Mod to any R1100 1150 with ABS II but I don;t use the Alternator wire I use the load shedding relay

The system powers up with the Key switched on and then when you press the starter button the relay releases and the ABS controller "goes to sleep" while the starter is turning only re-initialising when the starter button is released and usually at that stage the engine is running

Also lets you see if there is a fault code before starting as you can see both lights flashing until you press the starter button then one stays on and the other disappears until the starter button is released and they both come back on together

My R1100GR got another "addition" very soon after I headed down a muddy lane and could not get stopped due to not being able to kill the ABS on the move and I mean I tried everything ending up with the kill switch and using the clutch as a rear brake it got a big button on the dash that said ABS ON road / Off Road

 

[Dave78]

I do that Mod to any R1100 1150 with ABS II but I don;t use the Alternator wire I use the load shedding relay

I think I ending up using the load shedding relay for the same reasons you state. Can't really remember as I've slept since then. But I made a note of what I did in the wiring diagram

 

[DrFarkoff]

I think I ending up using the load shedding relay for the same reasons you state. Can't really remember as I've slept since then. But I made a note of what I did in the wiring diagram

Basically What I did was to change where the Merkin chappies take the live off the alternator blue wire

I take mine off the bottom of the load relief relay in the wiring box I've done quite a few for folks now

Lift the fuse box lid and have the bike on centrestand and press the starter button I think it's the second relay from the left side When you press the starter it will clunk and clunk again when you release the button So you know you have the right one If the clunking on and off of the ABS is distracting just unplug the light blue relay it will stop the clicking

All you are doing is making and breaking a circuit using a relay

You break into the green wire on terminal 15 in the ABS connector solder and insulate the wires and rebuild the connector you are finished in there and I run the wires back to the fusebox and put them on the "load" terminals on my new relay 30 and 87 on a standard 12v relay

I cut the first plastic divider out with a hacksaw blade (It makes life soooooo much easier) I lift up the relay block and I find the wire that goes dead when the starter is pushed this the tripping wire , I break in to it and make a short spur this goes to one of the tripping circuit terms 85 or 86 whatever terminal 85 or 86 that isn't used yet goes to a good earth, I usually use a decent crimped cable lug and fit it under the seat mount blocks just by the fusebox

A basic principle of the relay you are energising or tripping the relay with the 85 and 86 terminal connection and the ABS wire is thru connected on the 87 and 30 terminals When you switch on your ignition you get the normal flashing lamps

Once you tap the starter button the ABS thinks it is off (One red lamp stays on steady while the starter is pressed the other is off) and does not self check until you release the starter and the relay reconnects again Usually you will have the engine running and there is no current drain and therefore no low voltage

BE WARNED If you have a dodgy starter it may draw a helluva lot of current and I believe but have no proof that excessive current surge is what usually kills hall sensor units

I also do the "start the bike with the sidestand up" mod They really do modernise the 1100s

 

[Dave78]

I also do the "start the bike with the sidestand up" mod They really do modernise the 1100s

That was my plan, but sold the bike before I got around to it.

 

[Oldie]

The bypass mod seems to be a good option. However, I'm going to strip the starter motor first as I have also experienced the odd non-start recently (ie press the starter button and I get a single "clunk" but no spinning). I haven't properly checked for good earths either. Maybe should have mentioned that in my original post!

My bike came with the added bonus of having the ABS warning bulbs removed (must have been annoying the previous owner) but was told that the ABS was working fine! Slowly picking my way through posts to futher my knowledge - so thanks for all the replies

 

[DrFarkoff]

My bike came with the added bonus of having the ABS warning bulbs removed (must have been annoying the previous owner) but was told that the ABS was working fine! Slowly picking my way through posts to futher my knowledge - so thanks for all the replies

If the ABS bulbs have been removed the system will NOT activate so do NOT be depending on the ABS magically kicking in some day Until you refit the bulbs and see both lamps out once you have ridden a short distance

If they flash while you are riding the system becomes inactive as soon as they flash for a fault

Ride Safe

 

[Oldie]

Thanks. I replaced the bulbs before I could start the checking process.

I just went out and stripped the starter motor and found that two of the magnets came out with the armature! The remaining two are still in the casing but everything looks really beat up and filthy. Rather than replace the magnets and clean it all up I'm more inclined just to go for a new motor assembly from Germany, as it's still only circa £50 delivered. Maybe I'll get another 70k mikles out of it.

 

[kennyc]

The bypass mod seems to be a good option. However, I'm going to strip the starter motor first as I have also experienced the odd non-start recently (ie press the starter button and I get a single "clunk" but no spinning). I haven't properly checked for good earths either. Maybe should have mentioned that in my original post!

My bike came with the added bonus of having the ABS warning bulbs removed (must have been annoying the previous owner) but was told that the ABS was working fine! Slowly picking my way through posts to futher my knowledge - so thanks for all the replies

if you are getting the single "clunk" and ABS faults on start up then my money would be on the starter magnets coming loose/breaking up DAMHIK