ABS or no?

[alimey4u2]

Apologies, my previous reply was possibly a curt "YES"......
Been riding for 40 years ( yes I'm tired) ABS saved my bike & possibly my life one time....THAT to me was money well spent.... Other ( more skillful riders) may dither & prattle about it's appeal & effectivity but if I had the choice again it would be a no brainer.....

 

[Slowdown]

Yes to ABS. You can always turn it off.

I'm not Rossi - Should you need to on the road - could you modulate the brakes enough to stop faster than a bike that *knows* the front won't lock?

 

[floyd]

Yes, it paid for its self in the first week. Someone pulled out in front of me in the wet

 

[Engineer]

Not for me - until I am convinced they have fixed all the problems and it is available as a non-linked system.

 

[Captain GSA]

ABS on day to day riding will not be used..ahem. The one time you are going to need it (hopefull not) is the time you say it was worth it. Would you ride without protection, thinking well I'm not going to fall off? I'm not saying it's a life saver but it gives you a fighting chance. Yes it's one more thing to go wrong and repair but heck, we are talking about walking away or being carried away!
Don't confuse the argument with servo and non servo- that is a different issue. ABS-? Every time, it's like double locking your front door-better to be safe than sorry.

 

[Northants Rob]

ABS or no?.....UPDATE..after test ride...

Thanks to everyone for all the (sometimes differing) views - really appreciate that, plus the warm welcome to the site.

Well today was the day of the test ride...care of Wollaston in Northampton.

Little bit unsure what to expect - after all, I'm coming from a very low-slung Harley! The GS looked pretty daunting height-wise at first, though the 'sag' as you get astride soon takes care of that. Had the bike for a couple of hours. It was an '07 1200GS with ABS.

After the first half mile, any concerns about height (I'm 5'11") disappeared. First impression was how wonderfully nimble the GS felt (again, I'm coming from a 350Kg H-D). Tried to go through a combination of town traffic, country twisties, dual carriageway and motorway.

.....suddenly I'm back at the dealers again - that's how quickly the couple of hours seemed to go. Thoroughly enjoyed my time on the bike, can't enthuse enough about how easy it is to get along with, very nimble, quick (quick enough for me!), brakes awesome! Thankfully I didn't have to rely upon the ABS (that's a relief!!) but I liked the crisp, instant feel through the lever - sure, I grabbed a little too firmly once or twice, but I think I'd soon get used to that.

So, what next? Well, the GS certainly seems the kind of bike I'd like to ride...for weekends, evenings, occasional commuting and to have a crack at light touring on. It's a very rideable bike and seems very addictive. I've still got the small matter of getting rid of the Harley - Wollaston are looking at a few people locally who might be interested in doing a deal on that for me. I might sell privately but, you know, once I've made a decision (and I think I have), I like to get things moving quite quickly. It'll all come down to the £££'s.

Sorry for the long rambling post - but I do appreciate your feedback this week and I don't think it'll be long till I'm a proper GS'er!

Rob

 

[GS TRV]

sounds good Rob

go for it and keep us posted.

Trev

 

[Stevo]

GO FOR IT!

You know it makes sense You'll never look back

From your above post it sounds as if the test ride has made your mind up. Enjoy your GS when you get it, they're great pieces of kit

Oh and welcome to the forum, a great place to be a Tosser

Cheers

Stevo

 

[davedyer]

Initially I thought £800 for ABS was a lot of money - but I've just spent £700 on a helmet and wet weather gear and they're just bits of plastic, polystyrene, glassfibre and nylon. Think of the complexity and engineering of an ABS system and it begins to look fairly cheap.

As for reliability - its a braking system so should be the most reliable system on the bike - but then again it is a B*W!!

 

[Pressurized]

Those who say that you're in more control of the machine without ABS are right, you are. But they declare themselves as are fools because ABS can do a far better job than a human can of modulating braking, preventing wheel lock and maintaining overall control so you're better off with it than without it. So, while you, the rider, may be in more control of a machine without ABS, it's an inferior level of control to that offered by an ABS system when emergency braking. I know this for a fact, from experience. While I'll never know whether or not it actually saved my neck, it certainly gave me a bigger margin to work with. Yes, some may twitter on about tests where journalists achieved better stopping distances without ABS but they practised it again and again until they did and they were doing it in totally known circumstances - not at all like the ones that you, the rider, will encounter when rounding a bend and coming face to face with a wandering Mondeo.

Honestly, some pedants make me howl with laughter - would they go back to the days of an ignition advance lever on their handlebars because they would be more in control of the bike?

It's also sadly true, however, that the ABS system on BMWs is rather complex. The electric servo ones are starting to fail and, at over £1k for the parts, you may regret having it when standing at the counter of your local BMW boutique while they tap big numbers into the machine that's scanning your credit card.

So, you may be better of buying an ABS bike that isn't BMW.

 

[Sgt Bilco]

Pressurized

I think you may have missed the point a little. As a non ABS owner, I would never confess to be able to out think an ABS system. Road test`s are done by riding gods (so they say) and aren`t particularly relevant to everyday riding skills. They always say that ABS doesn`t give you control but IMHO, not many people would notice. There is no doubt that ABS is a wonderful system but I`m happy with my non ABS. The brakes are powerful and have lots of feel and because I do lots of long haul to out of the way, there is less to go wrong. If you read the report in BIKE last month about Nick Sanders trip to Timbuctoo, one GS owner had to turn back because of an ABS fault.

I also don`t subscribe that because it`s a B*W system it will go wrong. A GS is a sophisticated lump of metal like anything else and is not bulletproof.

It`s a matter of choice to what we ride and because I don`t have it, doesn`t mean I`m a luddite or want to return to kickstarts and ignition advance levers!!

Anyway Rob, if you stump up your 12 quid and becaome a sponsor you could advertise the HD in the for sale/wanted section. Some GS owners may even bite but there is no accounting for taste..

 

[Captain GSA]

ABS will not let you down as much as the servo might. The new GS's have had the servo removed (beefed up system instead) but are still equiped with ABS. Nick Sanders episode was indeed a servo problem but was stated as an ABS fault. Unless you are racing or on dirt (you can switch it off) ABS every time. On a day to day basis you'll never even know that you have it unless needs be it kicks in. Best of luck with the GS-

 

[Engineer]

ABS is certainly a triumph of marketing by the suppliers of ABS equipment that's for sure.

Convincing people that they might die if they do not have your latest wonder product is a great way of getting them to buy. Motorcycle dealers love it also, because it is adds disproportionate value to their wares.

Speed cameras also save lives don't they? It is common sense isn't it?

 

[ChrisG]

ABS or not

These comments are from - www.esafety-effects-database.org

"Several statistical crash rate studies have found there to be little or no net safety benefit from four-wheel ABS on passenger cars. Typically these studies have found, that the ABS is associated with a statistically significant decrease in multi-vehicle crashes, a statistically significant decrease in pedestrian strikes and a statistically significant increase in single-vehicle road departure crashes. The safety disbenefit from the third finding approximately cancels the safety benefits from the first two findings."

This is generally interpretted as drivers (of cars) who have ABS have less accidents, but drive faster as a result of their belief that ABS will get them out of trouble.

Therefore is you ride a bike as though you don't have ABS, but do then it is probably safer for you. ABS on bikes does not help with the many forms of lateral skid that we might encounter so hopefully we do not treat it with the same sort of reverence that 4 wheeled drivers might.

 

[Engineer]

These comments are from - www.esafety-effects-database.org

"Several statistical crash rate studies have found there to be little or no net safety benefit from four-wheel ABS on passenger cars. Typically these studies have found, that the ABS is associated with a statistically significant decrease in multi-vehicle crashes, a statistically significant decrease in pedestrian strikes and a statistically significant increase in single-vehicle road departure crashes. The safety disbenefit from the third finding approximately cancels the safety benefits from the first two findings."

This is generally interpretted as drivers (of cars) who have ABS have less accidents, but drive faster as a result of their belief that ABS will get them out of trouble.

Therefore is you ride a bike as though you don't have ABS, but do then it is probably safer for you. ABS on bikes does not help with the many forms of lateral skid that we might encounter so hopefully we do not treat it with the same sort of reverence that 4 wheeled drivers might.

So the net ABS safety benefit on cars is NIL - and on bikes it can only safely be used in far fewer circumstances - so use with extreme care!

Hmmmm - Training and skills improvement would seem a far better way of spending money to save lives than wasting it on bogus safety gadgets - Eureka!

 

[Northants Rob]

Thanks again guys - some great and entertaining views

New thread to read now......'I've Done it!'

 

[Pressurized]

These comments are from - www.esafety-effects-database.org

"Several statistical crash rate studies have found there to be little or no net safety benefit from four-wheel ABS on passenger cars. Typically these studies have found, that the ABS is associated with a statistically significant decrease in multi-vehicle crashes, a statistically significant decrease in pedestrian strikes and a statistically significant increase in single-vehicle road departure crashes. The safety disbenefit from the third finding approximately cancels the safety benefits from the first two findings."

This is generally interpretted as drivers (of cars) who have ABS have less accidents, but drive faster as a result of their belief that ABS will get them out of trouble.

Therefore is you ride a bike as though you don't have ABS, but do then it is probably safer for you. ABS on bikes does not help with the many forms of lateral skid that we might encounter so hopefully we do not treat it with the same sort of reverence that 4 wheeled drivers might.

I agree with this post. I've heard of frequent studies that riders tend to go faster when they upgrade their helmets or leathers. Academics explain it by saying they try to restore their level of perceived danger. And may well get it wrong...

So the net ABS safety benefit on cars is NIL - and on bikes it can only safely be used in far fewer circumstances - so use with extreme care!

Hmmmm - Training and skills improvement would seem a far better way of spending money to save lives than wasting it on bogus safety gadgets - Eureka!

Hmmmm, rubbish being talked here! ... the net safety benefit on cars is NIL only if drivers compensate to bring back the danger. If you're an intelligent, trained driver, you wouldn't over-compensate, would you? You tout training as a benefit so I gather you've had a bit so you would act smartly and get a benefit from ABS. I'm not slagging training - I think it's vitally important. Get both training and ABS and you'll be safer than with just one or the other.

Then you say that on bikes it can only be used sometimes (though bikes weren't in the study so I guess you've pulled this from somewhere else). Not really true. It can be used whenever but will work best when upright and progressively less well when canted over. I can't think of one genuine scenario when not having it would be worse than having it. Excepting off-road which I'm excluding as I don't ride off road.

"Bogus safety gadget", er no! The test that you refer to demonstrates that, as a gadget it improves safety. It's when people get into the equation that things get worse. Engineering is full of circumstances where this has been the case.

Sorry if this is a bit rant like, 'Engineer' but I do think your opinion is wrong - you are entitled to it though!

 

[Engineer]

I agree with this post. I've heard of frequent studies that riders tend to go faster when they upgrade their helmets or leathers. Academics explain it by saying they try to restore their level of perceived danger. And may well get it wrong...


Hmmmm, rubbish being talked here! ... the net safety benefit on cars is NIL only if drivers compensate to bring back the danger. If you're an intelligent, trained driver, you wouldn't over-compensate, would you? You tout training as a benefit so I gather you've had a bit so you would act smartly and get a benefit from ABS. I'm not slagging training - I think it's vitally important. Get both training and ABS and you'll be safer than with just one or the other.

Then you say that on bikes it can only be used sometimes (though bikes weren't in the study so I guess you've pulled this from somewhere else). Not really true. It can be used whenever but will work best when upright and progressively less well when canted over. I can't think of one genuine scenario when not having it would be worse than having it. Excepting off-road which I'm excluding as I don't ride off road.

"Bogus safety gadget", er no! The test that you refer to demonstrates that, as a gadget it improves safety. It's when people get into the equation that things get worse. Engineering is full of circumstances where this has been the case.

Sorry if this is a bit rant like, 'Engineer' but I do think your opinion is wrong - you are entitled to it though!

The stats for cars said that overall that ABS gave no overall reduction (i.e. NIL) in accidents, because one good effect was offset another negative effect, stats are stats (they maybe poor stats of course). If bike ABS is effective in fewer circumstances on the road (e.g. no good when leant over) than it is for cars then logically it is not much use at all as a safety feature.

What I'm trying to say is that I believe ABS on bikes does very little to increase safety and that the safety benefits are largely an illusion created by marketing people (that is what they are paid for). It may well be a dangerous illusion if it gives you a nice warm fuzzy feeling of increased safety.

Training, whether it is a formal course or some method of self teaching that increases awareness and observation of the dangers is likely to have a far greater benefit than a mechanical/electrical device with limited functionality.