ABS Query

[Disaster Area]

Hello again everyone,

I put a new battery into the old girl this afternoon (a Motobatt MB51814 with 220 CCA and 22.0AH).
I was a little concerned to see that the ABS didn't detect enough voltage to initialise when starting for the first couple of times.

Is is normal for this to happen with a brand new battery?

I have to say that I'm only bothered if the ABS initialises twice a year when it goes for its Warrant of Fitness, but having just spent money on a new battery I was expecting a little bit more peace of mind!

 

[DrFarkoff]

I was a little concerned to see that the ABS didn't detect enough voltage to initialise when starting for the first couple of times.
Is is normal for this to happen with a brand new battery?

If teh ABS lamps flash alternately when you turn on the key but have not yet pressed the starter? You either have not done a reset on reconnection of battery Or the system has a stored ABS fault code

Did you reset the ABS after you installed the battery ??

If I recall correctly 1100 needs a reset after battery installation 1150 does not

Also Your starter may be needing a wee bit of love

Clutch dust and general dust ingress over the years take it out of the starters bendix and one way clutch and the grease dries up in the reduction gearbox just to the rear of the front section, the grease plate of said part comes loose and sticks to the front of the armature causing a short and a magnetic field issue AND of course a dislodged magnet on the casing

 

[Disaster Area]

Is the starter motor something that is user serviceable?

As far as I can remember, the ABS lights do what they should (they flash simultaneously), but the system just doesn't initialise.

 

[Steptoe]

Turn the ignition on, don’t have any other electrics on, lights, heated grips etc, they must all be turned off. After turning ignition on wait a few seconds before pressing the starter button, this allows the ABS to self check, it must read 12v + otherwise it switches itself off. If you happen to be pressing the starter as it’s checking voltage it’ll read 9/10 bolts and shut itself off.

 

[Disaster Area]

Turn the ignition on, don’t have any other electrics on, lights, heated grips etc, they must all be turned off. After turning ignition on wait a few seconds before pressing the starter button, this allows the ABS to self check, it must read 12v + otherwise it switches itself off. If you happen to be pressing the starter as it’s checking voltage it’ll read 9/10 bolts and shut itself off.

Will try.
Thanks.

 

[Disaster Area]

OK, so the bike went in for it's test today. It failed on the ABS not initializing and a 'draggy rear brake'.

I will strip the rear caliper and put it all back together, but I'm annoyed about the ABS because on the way home I turned the bike on and off again at some traffic lights and the ABS worked perfectly.

My thinking is that when the engine is warm it will work, when the engine is cold it won't.

My plan is to take the starter off and see if I can find someone to 'refurbish' it and see if that makes a difference.
Any other suggestions warmly welcomed as its frustrating that it is an intermittent problem that means I can't ride the bike.

Thanks!

 

[fox889]

Don't dismiss the 'draggy brake' as being just the calliper at fault, my '02 1150 had a lazy rear brake & yes, I stripped the calliper down [which was fine] turned out to be a collapsed rear brake hose, original rubber hose so was well past it's sell by date. New braided one & she's sweet!

 

[Disaster Area]

Don't dismiss the 'draggy brake' as being just the calliper at fault, my '02 1150 had a lazy rear brake & yes, I stripped the calliper down [which was fine] turned out to be a collapsed rear brake hose, original rubber hose so was well past it's sell by date. New braided one & she's sweet!

Thanks - that's a good tip - I changed mine after hearing of horror stories!
I'll give everything a good flush through with fresh fluid and see if there's anything lurking.

 

[DrFarkoff]

Is the starter motor something that is user serviceable?

As far as I can remember, the ABS lights do what they should (they flash simultaneously), but the system just doesn't initialise.

You need to explain that a bit further

If the lights flash on and off together the system is fault free

If you press the starter button and they immediately start flashing alternately then its a starter issue its likely drawing excess current because it is dirty or the grease plate has fallen off and dragging down the volts below the warning threshold

The system will only initialise if it "sees" the wheels turning for more than 10 kph for 5 metres

Do your ABS pulse rings have rust on them ??
Is the ABS gap (between sensor and pulse) ring in spec??
AND finally are you on the original brake hoses ??

I have a mod to eliminate the ABS Start up issue forever, Just a relay and 4 wires using the load relief relay

If you want let me know and I will go and try and find it in my files

If you can't put your foot on the caliper and push towards the wheel bolt side then you could simply have swollen seals Or as Fox889 says possibly a collapsing rear hose (inner sheath acts as a one way valve)

 

[DrFarkoff]

The starter motors are very easy worked on You can get to the bits you need without disturbing bushes etc

You will need a torx 25 and a torx 20

Mark a line on the alloy to the steel of the body This will make it easier on reassembly Trust me

Just undo the three torx 25 bolts and the one T20 at the top by the solenoid

The alloy nose will now come off exposing the pinion and actuating lever

BE careful to stay over a bench or table with a cloth or towel because any moment now the pivot pin for the pinion is going to fall out its a shiny 4 mm x 15mm ish diameter shiny pin It is just held in by the pressure of the solenoid spring once the alloy nose is off

undo the 13mm nut on the lower solenoid power feed to the motor

and cut the two rivet heads off and gently pry the motor body back

IN one hand you will have the Front assembly with a steel plate and that circular thing on the motor housing side is a reduction gearbox and is usually full of dried up grease

in teh other hand you should have teh motor housing, a quick inspection inside the motor housing will tell you if the magnets are where they should be i.e. equidistant around the diameter. If two are close together Then the glue has failed and the displaced magnet(s) are screwing the mag field and drawing more current and dropping the volts and tripping the ABS fault

Also! If there is a shiny disc on the rotor ?? Likely to have a couple of burns from the coils?

Then the grease plate has dislodged from the reduction gearbox and is shorting the mag field and again making the motor draw excess current

I'd need pics for an evaluation but for many folks who "needed" their bikes I have cleaned it out, regreased the gearbox Refitted the cover and epoxy'd it in place and cleaned and lubricated the rest of the moving bits and reassembled and refitted the starter and it worked perfectly
You can drip in a teaspoon of 3in 1 oil (or PAS fluid) into the one way clutch of the bendix it improves its operation greatly

I all the bits a good session in the parts cleaning tank and then a blow dry before doing the lubrication stuff

the only time I won't reassemble and recommend a new starter or rear casing is when the magnets move its usually a mess in there with bits of ground up magnet everywhere

 

[theoneandonly]

Don't dismiss the 'draggy brake' as being just the calliper at fault, my '02 1150 had a lazy rear brake & yes, I stripped the calliper down [which was fine] turned out to be a collapsed rear brake hose, original rubber hose so was well past it's sell by date. New braided one & she's sweet!

if you are doing the rear?......might aswell do the front too...

 

[Disaster Area]

You need to explain that a bit further

If the lights flash on and off together the system is fault free Yes, they do this.

If you press the starter button and they immediately start flashing alternately then its a starter issue its likely drawing excess current because it is dirty or the grease plate has fallen off and dragging down the volts below the warning threshold Yes, they do this as well

The system will only initialise if it "sees" the wheels turning for more than 10 kph for 5 metres Yep.

Do your ABS pulse rings have rust on them ?? Will check carefully
Is the ABS gap (between sensor and pulse) ring in spec?? No idea
AND finally are you on the original brake hoses ?? No, I've fitted braided hoses

I have a mod to eliminate the ABS Start up issue forever, Just a relay and 4 wires using the load relief relay

If you want let me know and I will go and try and find it in my files Does this eliminate the error, or does it disable the ABS? I have a feeling that disabling the ABS permanently would be a paperwork nightmare here

If you can't put your foot on the caliper and push towards the wheel bolt side then you could simply have swollen seals Or as Fox889 says possibly a collapsing rear hose (inner sheath acts as a one way valve) I'll check

Thanks for the advice.

 

[DrFarkoff]

Thanks for the advice

If you want let me know and I will go and try and find it in my files??

Does this eliminate the error, or does it disable the ABS? I have a feeling that disabling the ABS permanently would be a paperwork nightmare here

Momentarily switches off the power to ABS unit

Reconnecting once the starter button is released and then does its self checks again with the engine running

Never a problem with ABS low voltage Ever again

 

[Disaster Area]

Momentarily switches off the power to ABS unit

Reconnecting once the starter button is released and then does its self checks again with the engine running

Never a problem with ABS low voltage Ever again

In that case, it could be the answer to my problems! If you can give me the details, I'd love to see if doing it is within my skill set.

 

[DrFarkoff]

In that case, it could be the answer to my problems! If you can give me the details, I'd love to see if doing it is within my skill set.

You will need a 12 volt relay Micro is fine as its not high current at all
Some crimping pliers and female spades for the relay and a 6 or 8 mm lug for the earth
Some heat shrink and solder for 3 joints
and a few normal tools

It is not a hard job What you do is

Take the tank off and then disconnect and open the ABS unit connector (peel the boot back and two screws and split the wire to pin 15 (usually solid green) the numbers are embossed on the plastic

The easy way is to take some light twincore and run it from the fusebox to the abs connector (we have very small twin core available here called thinwall it's about 7 mm wide and 3 to 4 mm thick it does not have a heavy load to carry! But this stuff is amazing and is rated to 16 amps a metre is plenty)

Anyway I digress Open the connector plug and slide your wire in in some sort of a not permitting water to get in sort of a way and simply split the green wire to pin 15

solder and heat shrink an end to each of the twin core wires

Rebuild and refit the ABS plug back in place

In the fuse box Locate the Load relief relay It can be a pain in the arse to get the socket to release But Once you have it lifted you will find an ignition 12v live for the supply side of things and all the "downstream" load items

You want to connect into the downstream side of the relay wire Solder and tape are my method here

And you will need a ground wire also a lug onto the seat mount usually works

So to terminal 30 and 87 (load circuit) you connect one of each of the twin core or (two wires) that you have split the terminal 15 wires with

To terminal 85 and 86 (Switching circuit) you connect your wire from the load relief wire and the ground

Secure teh ABS unit and recheck your wiring for possible chafe points

What will happen is when you switch on your ignition the ABS does its self checks

With the modification You then press the starter button and the ABS is fooled into thinking the ignition is off by the relay disconnecting and one ABS lamp only appears (half the system is still on )
Once you have released the starter button power is restored to the unit via the relay bridging and that green wire reconnecting and the ABS Unit does a quick self check

At this stage the engine is running so the chances of a Low Voltage fault are miniscule

The Yanks use a similar mod but theirs relies on the blue wire of the alternator giving a ground I much prefer not to mess with the charging circuit chaffed wire etc

If you want to you can fit a small fuse on the wire from the Load relief to the relay but there is not much room and its not any current at all just enough to switch the relay I normally cut a bit of the plastic out inside the fusebox that allows you to fit the relay side by side with the sidestand mod relay in there

I don't see the photos online any more but may have some stored in my old hard drive

Any questions give me a shout

 

[DrFarkoff]

Thanks for the advice.

Draggy rear brake

Rear seals had an annoying habit of swelling If you struggle to push the pistons back in with your fingers? Its going to be a bit draggy, In reality replacement was the only fix but the kit is cheap £20 ish

Rear Brake lever travel

Ideally you want to have a mm or two before the brake actuates If you don't ?? The brake stays slightly applied and the hotter the fluid gets the more the brake is applied etc etc etc

Did you adjust the lever for a sharper brake ??

 

[Disaster Area]

Draggy rear brake

Rear seals had an annoying habit of swelling If you struggle to push the pistons back in with your fingers? Its going to be a bit draggy, In reality replacement was the only fix but the kit is cheap £20 ish

Rear Brake lever travel

Ideally you want to have a mm or two before the brake actuates If you don't ?? The brake stays slightly applied and the hotter the fluid gets the more the brake is applied etc etc etc

Did you adjust the lever for a sharper brake ??

Thanks for your help with the post above, I'll give that a try. I've always regarded automotive electrics as a black art, so I'll take it slowly.

As for the brakes, as far as I know everything is original, so the seals will have perished and the pistons may well have corroded. My plan is to take the callipers off and have a look. If needs be, I'll order new pistons as well as seals. I'm just very grumpy as none of the brake specialists that I have spoken to will touch motorbike brakes and there appear to be no seal kits in the whole of New Zealand. I'm going to ring a few other places on Monday, but I'm not holding out much hope. Brakes are something I'd prefer not to do myself as they tend to be regarded as 'quite important' by some people, but as with all of my spannering, I'll do it through necessity, not a sense of fun.

 

[darvi]

You will need a 12 volt relay Micro is fine as its not high current at all
Some crimping pliers and female spades for the relay and a 6 or 8 mm lug for the earth
Some heat shrink and solder for 3 joints
and a few normal tools

It is not a hard job What you do is

Take the tank off and then disconnect and open the ABS unit connector (peel the boot back and two screws and split the wire to pin 15 (usually solid green) the numbers are embossed on the plastic

The easy way is to take some light twincore and run it from the fusebox to the abs connector (we have very small twin core available here called thinwall it's about 7 mm wide and 3 to 4 mm thick it does not have a heavy load to carry! But this stuff is amazing and is rated to 16 amps a metre is plenty)

Anyway I digress Open the connector plug and slide your wire in in some sort of a not permitting water to get in sort of a way and simply split the green wire to pin 15

solder and heat shrink an end to each of the twin core wires

Rebuild and refit the ABS plug back in place

In the fuse box Locate the Load relief relay It can be a pain in the arse to get the socket to release But Once you have it lifted you will find an ignition 12v live for the supply side of things and all the "downstream" load items

You want to connect into the downstream side of the relay wire Solder and tape are my method here

And you will need a ground wire also a lug onto the seat mount usually works

So to terminal 30 and 87 (load circuit) you connect one of each of the twin core or (two wires) that you have split the terminal 15 wires with

To terminal 85 and 86 (Switching circuit) you connect your wire from the load relief wire and the ground

Secure teh ABS unit and recheck your wiring for possible chafe points

What will happen is when you switch on your ignition the ABS does its self checks

With the modification You then press the starter button and the ABS is fooled into thinking the ignition is off by the relay disconnecting and one ABS lamp only appears (half the system is still on )
Once you have released the starter button power is restored to the unit via the relay bridging and that green wire reconnecting and the ABS Unit does a quick self check

At this stage the engine is running so the chances of a Low Voltage fault are miniscule

The Yanks use a similar mod but theirs relies on the blue wire of the alternator giving a ground I much prefer not to mess with the charging circuit chaffed wire etc

If you want to you can fit a small fuse on the wire from the Load relief to the relay but there is not much room and its not any current at all just enough to switch the relay I normally cut a bit of the plastic out inside the fusebox that allows you to fit the relay side by side with the sidestand mod relay in there

I don't see the photos online any more but may have some stored in my old hard drive

Any questions give me a shout

hi i stumbled across yor abs switching mod and im very interested in doing this mod on my rs 1100 electrics are not my strong point and im ok upto the pointof connecting the twin flex to terminals 30 and 87 on th load circuit relay its the conecting to terminal85 and 86 on the switchin curcuit im not sure of which wires from the load circuit i connect into sorry if im being a bit thick but any help would be ver helpful and if you could find yor original photos that would be very much appreciated

 

[DrFarkoff]

hi i stumbled across yor abs switching mod and im very interested in doing this mod on my rs 1100 electrics are not my strong point and im ok upto the pointof connecting the twin flex to terminals 30 and 87 on th load circuit relay its the conecting to terminal85 and 86 on the switchin curcuit im not sure of which wires from the load circuit i connect into sorry if im being a bit thick but any help would be ver helpful and if you could find yor original photos that would be very much appreciated

You have to dig the Load relief relay out from the box

There is a supply side which is always live and the Supply side that is powered when the relay is powered up by the ignition

So basically you want to connect to the Supply side rather than the always live side

When you press the starter button the relay is powered down and the supply side goes to zero and the ABS mod relay disconnects the ABS

When you release the starter button That side of the relay gets power again and the ABS mod relay will connect and the ABS circuit will be remade and at that stage the ABS unit does its self checks and as the engine is running there is never a low power fault code

 

[snelly]

The Abs on my 1100 is intermittent; if it does'nt arm straight away i turn of the ignition wait awhile; then give it another kick in the guts which usually has the desired effect .
As for failing its test; how can it fail when you can manually switch the Abs off when you want;; that facility is built into the system.