ABS V non-ABS

[Malcvtr]

Malcvtr- Smug comments about taking advanced courses are bollox, and you know it

Smug? Moi?

 

[Engineer]

He never said this from experience, nor from the TWO test in question. As I said earlier it was a hypothetical comment, not tested, or COULD YOU NOT READ my earlier POST

You seem to have a habit of selectively disregarding my comments. I wonder why?

Perhaps you're spending too much time watching the weather forcasts

How can you possibly know whether he said it from experience or not? I'm prepeared to believe that he meant what he said - do you know otherwise?

I think that your 'passion' for all things ABS is affecting your judgement.

P.S. try looking up cognitive dissonance and you might understand

 

[JohnC]

How can you possibly know whether he said it from experience or not? I'm prepeared to believe that he meant what he said - do you know otherwise?

I think that your 'passion' for all things ABS is affecting your judgement.

P.S. try looking up cognitive dissonance and you might understand

It's all in the context. READ IT and feel free to suffer the wrath of TWO for posting what he DID say

With three bikes in the garage, and only one with ABS, I have very few contradicting cognitions. I'm cool

Here comes the rain, tadda da da

 

[Engineer]

It's all in the context. READ IT and feel free to suffer the wrath of TWO for posting what he said

With three bikes in the garage, and only one with ABS, I have very few contradicting cognitions. I'm cool

But obviously still enough to confuse yourself Goodnight

P.S. TWO should send me a free pair of boots for all the extra publicity they are getting from this thread.

 

[JohnC]

But obviously still enough to confuse yourself Goodnight

P.S. TWO should send me a free pair of boots for all the extra publicity they are getting from this thread.

Hey, I started it, they're mine, mine I say

Goodnight fine sir

Damp tommorow I believe

 

[buckles]

Yes I was but I didn't expect ABS to make it worse!
I don't think expecting ABS to be better than non-ABS is much to expect do you?
I did learn something and that's to go out and try a few e-stops, I suggest you do the same and see what you think to what happens.

HANG ON IF YOU ARE TRAVELLING TO FAST APPLY BRAKES RUN OUT OF ROAD WOT IS ABS SUPPOSED TO DO. DID TRY E-STOPS ON ROAD OFF ROAD ON GRAVEL AND GUESS WOT AT EXCESS SPEED YOU STILL FALL OFF,LEARNED THAT IN THE FIRST MONTH. AS FOR BRAND LOYALTY ITS ME FIRST BMW AND IF IT TURNS OUT TO BE ABAGOWANK I'LL SELL IT NO PROBS.

 

[Fanum]

Yes I was but I didn't expect ABS to make it worse!
I don't think expecting ABS to be better than non-ABS is much to expect do you?
I did learn something and that's to go out and try a few e-stops, I suggest you do the same and see what you think to what happens.

HANG ON IF YOU ARE TRAVELLING TO FAST APPLY BRAKES RUN OUT OF ROAD WOT IS ABS SUPPOSED TO DO. DID TRY E-STOPS ON ROAD OFF ROAD ON GRAVEL AND GUESS WOT AT EXCESS SPEED YOU STILL FALL OFF,LEARNED THAT IN THE FIRST MONTH. AS FOR BRAND LOYALTY ITS ME FIRST BMW AND IF IT TURNS OUT TO BE ABAGOWANK I'LL SELL IT NO PROBS.

Well pointed out Buckles

Guess what...ABS won't save you if you ride off a cliff either...mebbe we should ask for our money back

 

[Engineer]

I've had a bright idea!

BMW need to make the ABS switchable while you are on the move. You could ride along the road as happy as Larry and if you spotted that an accident was about to happen and you were riding upright on a straight smooth road, then you could quickly turn the ABS on, stop safely and breath a huge sigh of relief - Phew! ABS saved me again.

On the other hand you could be riding along as happy as Larry with the ABS turned on (you had forgotten to turn it off after the previous incident) - perhaps even admiring the view (carefully of course) - then as you find yourself at your favorite roundabout, the one with the bumps on the approach and all that gravel swept neatly onto you riding line, you quickly turn your whizzo ABS system off and safely negotiate the roundabout without running straight over the top - Phew! my brakes saved me again.

Quick where's the phone number of my patent lawyer? )

 

[TheJoker]

My turn to patronise now....if you think it's snatchy, time you learnt some proper control......brakes aren't an on or off switch, they have degrees in between. Either that or you should get them checked...my Evo's are nice and smooooooth

Damn! The only one biting was Fanum... Should have guessed I do happen to know that brakes aren't an on-off switch. In fact, on my GSX-R1000 I changed my front pads for the first time at 16,000 miles.
I have never had a bike's brakes momentarily lock up at the brow after T13 braking for the left-hander... except on the servo equipped R1200GS... a nice little squeak every lap... same thing for most corners. The servo gives the brakes a bit of lorry-air-brakes-characteristics. Apply too little braking force for a while, to let the servo settle, then adjust braking as needed.... Not very nice

I also suspect that the servo's behaviour is largely making the ABS' work harder due to the sudden braking power....

Now where's my popcorn...

 

[Isaac]

When you are a child, learning to ride a push-bike, it is fitted with stabilisers.
After a few weeks of practise, you can ride the push-bike fairly competently without the help of the stabilisers, but, occassionally when, through lack of experience or ability, you get it wrong, the stabilisers prevent you falling off.
This is exactly the purpose of ABS.
Engineer is 100% correct, but expecting someone like John C to recognise his lack of riding ability/experience is going to take some doing!

 

[cookie]

the stabilisers prevent you falling off.
This is exactly the purpose of ABS.

stabilisers detracted from the enjoyment of riding IIRC.

bottom line for me is, ABS is a great idea but BMW need to make it work better. at least they seem to have seen the light on those fecking stupid servo brakes

 

[luckylucian]

Hopefully this won't add fuel to the flames but I've had 22 years of riding experience, most of it on non-abs bad handling bikes. Generally if you are braking over bumps the front often locks-up in the dips but starts rotating again when it rises back out of the dip (if you've not applied too much pressure), you can feel this through the bars (and see the black stripes afterwards on the road).The BMW ABS lets off at this point, "surging" you forwards. It is the feeling that the brakes are not stopping you which causes the emotion and it does feel like a lifetime until they brake again, in real time it is a momentary blip.

I steamed into a wet cattle grid yesterday, hard on the brakes, ABS released them over the metal bars and re-applied them later, I knew it would happen and wasn't worried. Previously I would have braked harder before, not braked on the cattle grid and re-applied later. It is when it unexpectedly happens thet people get worried, on a non-ABS bike you would have had a locked up wheel to deal with, honest!

 

[JohnC]

When you are a child, learning to ride a push-bike, it is fitted with stabilisers.
After a few weeks of practise, you can ride the push-bike fairly competently without the help of the stabilisers, but, occassionally when, through lack of experience or ability, you get it wrong, the stabilisers prevent you falling off.
This is exactly the purpose of ABS.
Engineer is 100% correct, but expecting someone like John C to recognise his lack of riding ability/experience is going to take some doing!

I did reply but then I remembered who you were/are. Bye

 

[Engineer]

.............I steamed into a wet cattle grid yesterday, hard on the brakes, ABS released them over the metal bars and re-applied them later, I knew it would happen and wasn't worried. Previously I would have braked harder before, not braked on the cattle grid and re-applied later. It is when it unexpectedly happens thet people get worried, on a non-ABS bike you would have had a locked up wheel to deal with, honest!

Hmmm.... so it has a use after all - I will no longer worry about "steaming" into a wet cattle grid whilst hard on the brakes - I always knew there was a killer application for ABS - this one should convince all the sceptics

P.S.
This, of course assumes that you have remembered to switch the ABS back on after the earlier bumpy/gravelly roundabout incident

 

[APE]

Ian MacPherson (Ex World Supersports) in this month's Bike magazine 1200GS test : "That ABS isn't good - I never noticed it on the road, but it failed completely going into the hairpin once, no brakes at all for four or five metres. The bike can cope with much more brakes than the ABS thinks it can".

 

[archie]

unlike a car system where the ABS cycles the brakes very fast so you always have brakes,

Sorry, but I had just the same issue in my previous car - a BMW! - on a smooth grippy surface well in excess of 100mph. It felt just like I had let go of the brakes.

 

[JohnC]

Ian MacPherson (Ex World Supersports) in this month's Bike magazine 1200GS test : "That ABS isn't good - I never noticed it on the road, but it failed completely going into the hairpin once, no brakes at all for four or five metres. The bike can cope with much more brakes than the ABS thinks it can".

It's not and never will be a track bike though. Although in a similar article Neil McKenzie (I think) said the GS ABS brakes were fine on the track and he was outbraking loads of folk. I'll try to dig out the article. In this situation I'd deffo have switched the ABS off. I see now that Engineer has mastered the art of wit, well perhaps half mastered it. All he needs to master now is getting his waterproofs on

 

[Engineer]

Ian MacPherson (Ex World Supersports) in this month's Bike magazine 1200GS test : "That ABS isn't good - I never noticed it on the road, but it failed completely going into the hairpin once, no brakes at all for four or five metres. The bike can cope with much more brakes than the ABS thinks it can".

I read this also - there definitely seems to be something weird going on - perhaps it's the algorithm that is used in the control circuit - I assume it's controlled by some sort of embedded microcontroller - I know how easy it is to create an imperfect software control system that works most of the time but occasionally throws an unexplained wobbly! It can be damn near impossible to get the bugs out of some systems.