Accelerator module fitted

[Gigsy]

Sorry, I should have realised that if I agued with an idiot, that they'd eventually bring me down to their level and beat me with experience. Well done, have a gold star.

Seriously though, you should read my previous comment - you may learn something.

 

[haditlowered]

Sorry, I should have realised that if I agued with an idiot, that they'd eventually bring me down to their level

Well Ian.. I think for an "idiot" i have proved a point that you refuse to accept, the module works - it's simply pitching a users practical experience over the theory of a self proclaimed clever one, i'll not bother reading the post though, because i know it will be full of ramblings that are not based on your experience of using the module.

beat me with experience. Well done, have a gold star.

The fact is a lot of people use the module and love it, for it's simplicity, cost and effectiveness - so yes, it's the experience of having and using one that counts - not your theory based on what a mate said.

seriously though, you should read my previous comment - you may learn something.

Perhaps if you dare admit it yourself, you are the one who has something to learn - can it be possible that you already know everything about the Sol2.be module, well i'm not getting that feeling this end, nor will the countless others that use the device, essentially you are saying they all simply "imagine", their bikes are better, quite a bold statement from a chap thats never seen one - take the opportunity, if you believe it's useless - why don't you back it up with hard and practical evidence. - so if thats all...

 

[Gigsy]

Why don't you actually read post 37 instead of insisting on droning on about some diatribe about what I have supposedly said and read what I have actually said. You're just proving yourself to be a bigger fool that I originally thought right now.

 

[haditlowered]

how can it be that it's working for you, do you think?

i think it works for me because it gives the engine a slightly richer fuel mix in the lower gear,s smoothing out that lumpiness with the standard GS fuelling... but you already new that...

it turns out, I did think of something last night that could have a positive effect in the conditions you describe. Namely, it is possible that the ECU could learn that it can increase ignition advance rather than reduce fuelling once it realises it's running richer than it should be. This would be similar to what happens when you run a higher grade fuel.

Again conjecture based on your theory... they specify that the fuelling is increased due to the modified temp reading - these guys develop tuning modules not web sites, i,m just tempted to believe them whilst i am lacking anything other that theory on your part.

the ECU assumes that the reason the O2 in the exhaust gasses differs from what it expects is because it's burning a higher grade fuel (i.e. one that burns slower and is more resistant to knock), then it may advance the ignition so that more of the fuel is burnt during the combustion cycle. However, as already explained, this is something it can only discover if it's in closed loop and the AFR sensor is therefore within tolerance - of course, that is at odds with the info Sol2.be have provided you (i.e. that their device only works in open loop fuelling).

So more conjecture - you clearly have a knowledge of fuelling, but still refuse to accept that the module works, you are on a constant route to try, with your theory to prove that the module cannot possibly work - whereas in practice it does.

my imagined conversation example

yes indeed.... imagined, whereas the module is actually a reality.

, I'm not saying that this is definitely what's happening

I think that might have been an admission that you have no real idea how the module actually works... was it...? not sure..

the ECU thinks it can get more bang for a given volume of fuel, it will learn this and keep doing it.

so on that basis, the ECU has now "learnt" has it... if it had, we would all be able to take the module off safe in the knowledge that the ECU has now learnt to be more economical with our petrol, and give us more power in the lower gears.... but of course it hasn't has it - as i proved yesterday when i took it off - my ECU all of a sudden had a memory lapse.... but it regained it rather quickly when i plugged the module back in

if you've found the device to work, that's great. I'm genuinely happy for you. However, I believe that they are floored and would recommend that anyone thinking about one saves there money and puts it towards a remap instead.

So how are you going to prove that they are flawed, since i and countless other are getting great benefits from them, i stick to what i am saying - you have experience of sorts, but you cannot figure this one out... it's your theory against lots of actual users getting actual results - and a remap is not always the right answer either, there are many posts online in that regard

Why don't you actually read post 37 instead of insisting on droning on about some diatribe about what I have supposedly said and read what I have actually said. You're just proving yourself to be a bigger fool that I originally thought right now.

Ian - I've read it - and it was still your own theory and conjecture: your theory that it does't / cannot work vs users practical experiences and getting good results, it's a no brainer really, might i suggest that you go and get a Module... try it on yer bike, and figure out why they DO work.... that will give you the opportunity to pay with the AFR thingy too, as well as posting a valued write up for people with actual experience of the Module on a long term test - lots of people, including myself would like to see that from one with knowledge .

 

[Gigsy]

Thanks for finally reading it. However, you might want to read it again and try to understand it this time rather than taking the automatic assumption that what I'm saying is incorrect or nonsense. If you do, you might just see that I've provided an explanation for why you see the benefits you claim.

If you don't get it that's fine but what you're actually now doing is pretty ignorant as your picking holes in me saying "you know what, I can see how it works for you".

The gist of the argument is this (I'm going to jazz it up a bit for dramatic effect):

Sol2.be claim: Our device tricks the ECU into thinking it's colder than it is and this causes the ECU to add more fuel. Our module gives you a less snatchy throttle etc.
You say: Yes, I agree. That's what I've observed.
I say: Yes, OK, but hang on, if it we're just that then the ECU would learn to correct itself for erroneous data so over time the effects of the module would decrease. Practical tests, of which I've observed, agree with my findings.
You say: Liar! I've been riding since before you were born (you weren't BTW) and I know best because Sol2.be told me so. Burn the heretic!!! Burn the heathen!!!!

Sol2.be say: Our module only works in open loop
I say: Hang on, that's not right as this chap is seeing the effects of the device in closed loop fuelling conditions.
I think to myself - Hmm, this chap also isn't seeing the effects drop off. I wonder what else could be happening?
I say: I know, instead of correcting the data mismatch by reducing fuelling, it must be adding ignition advance. This would allow it to burn off the extra fuel each combustion cycle and return the O2 sensor readings within it's targets and provide the effects described (thus proving your point by the way). Hmm, Sol2.be might want to think about what they're saying because according to this chap's observation, it actually has it's greatest effect in those situations. Of course, it won't be the same for all ECUs since they have different fuelling strategies and will be receiving different sensor data - thus explaining why some people see the benefit tail off over time (which is what I've observed) and some continue to see the benefit (which is what you observed).
You say: I don't care, I'm not reading what you've written because I don't understand half of what you've already written so I'm just going to claim you've no idea what you're talking about instead. Burn the heretic!!! Etc. (even though what I'd written proves your point).
I say: You should probably read it (knowing I've just proved your point and proved an explanation for the effects you observed - I may have called you a c*** at that point too. Sorry about that).
You say: Rubbish, I'm not reading what you've written and I'm just going to claim you've no idea what you're talking about despite not reading it. Burn the heretic!!! Etc.
I say: Seriously, you should read it (again, knowing I've proved your point for you, admitted I was not entirely right and actually explained properly why it works for you).
You say: OK, I've read it now because I've quoted some of it. You've no idea what you're talking about despite the fact that I don't actually understand what you've written and despite you having just proved my point for me. Burn the heretic!!! Etc.

So, I'm actually saying, yes, I may have being wrong in my blanket statement that it won't work in all cases - I was wrong and allowed myself to be blinkered by my own experience of it. However, I've been open minded enough to figure out why you observe what you do - I even pointed you to my post on the subject several times before you even read it and even now that you have, you're still so blinkered that you don't get it.

The bottom line is, I know that it doesn't work long term in all cases as I've experienced that. I also know that some people will adapt to the lessening effect without noticing it because people just do that (an increasing placebo effect if you will). I can also see that some like you may well continue to have a long lasting effect from it. I also know that Sol2.be are wrong if they think it doesn't work in closed loop fuelling - again, you would not see the effects you do if it didn't. It will work for some (like you) but it won't work for others and the only guaranteed way to alter the fuelling is a remap (but yes, it does depend on who does the remap).

Am I guilty of trolling you? Yes. Do I think you deserved it? Yes. Was it fun? Yes. Have you had enough yet?

 

[Gigsy]

P.S. Yes, I am a c*** but I'm old enough not to give a shit

 

[haditlowered]

P.S. Yes, I am a c*** but I'm old enough not to give a shit

Ian, haven't called you a c*** during this thread, although perhaps one or two other things have slipped in, although i seem to remember in a previous post i was referred to as such, but with 10 years on you my friend (Ian 40 aint that old...) i am equally un bothered by the label.

In the conditions you describe, your bike is in closed loop fuelling, which according to the info you provided from Sol2.be says their module has little on no effect on fuelling. Therefore, how can it be that it's working

So do you assume that it should work in the open loop, of course not, even I've learnt that from the thread..: FROM Sol2.be: Open loop simply means there is no feedback of the Lambda sensor to the ECU. It means there is no sensing or measuring of the exhaust gas to see how the motorcycle is running. The fuel injected is determined by the RPM and throttle position"

You don't seem, (despite your self proclaimed cleverness), to be able to appreciate that the requirement to smooth out the lumpy gear changes, and initial acceleration grumbling is easily achieved with little (but not NO) effect on the fuelling, Sol2.be have obviously mastered something you cannot grasp, and it is evident that it will remain beyond your grasp, by enhancing the "little effect" you mention on the fuelling Sol2.be have developed their Module - each time you post you prove even more that you really do have something to learn..... have you considered taking a break, perhaps walking the dog, and just moving on to something else, in all honesty - there are enough posts above for any user to make his / her mind up about the Module - and you aren't really making any progress - but that is not down to me......

 

[Gigsy]

You don't seem, (despite your self proclaimed cleverness), to be able to appreciate that the requirement to smooth out the lumpy gear changes, and initial acceleration grumbling is easily achieved with little (but not NO) effect on the fuelling, Sol2.be have obviously mastered something you cannot grasp, and it is evident that it will remain beyond your grasp, by enhancing the "little effect" you mention on the fuelling Sol2.be have developed their Module - each time you post you prove even more that you really do have something to learn..... have you considered taking a break, perhaps walking the dog, and just moving on to something else, in all honesty - there are enough posts above for any user to make his / her mind up about the Module - and you aren't really making any progress - but that is not down to me......

You've obviously still not quite grasped my explanation - perhaps I've not explained it well enough for you but like you say, there's enough info I the thread for people to make up their own minds.

Genuinely, the fact that you experience an effect from the module means Sol2.be are not right in what they are saying - that's not to say their module doesn't work for you. It's just if they tell you it only works in open loop (which is what you have said they told you), they're wrong and shows they don't really know why it works for you.

Bottom line, the module works for you and that's great. It didn't work in my experience, that's also fine.

BTW I've never said 40 was old, just old enough not to give a shit. 50 on the other hand....

 

[haditlowered]

You've obviously still not quite grasped my explanation

You haven't given an explanation, just your opinion and conjecture... my explanation on the other hand is based on the fact that i use the Module... hands on practical experience - that negates theory.

perhaps I've not explained it well enough for you but like you say, there's enough info I the thread for people to make up their own minds.

you didn't explain anything either, other than your theory as to why the Module doesn't work, whereas, it does, if you want people to believe you post some FACTS.

Genuinely, the fact that you experience an effect from the module means Sol2.be are not right in what they are saying

That'll be the arrogance showing it's head again... ( see how i tamed my response there) - so it's just me is it, yeh right...me and and all the other people with Modules fitted that know we feel the benefits of it, against ... err.... Ian, who says "Genuinely" it doesn't work... and thats based on errm...well actually nothing but hot air.... time to give it up Ian.. it works, and you do not know why.

thats not to say their module doesn't work for you.

Make your mind up.... you say it doesn't/ cannot work, and now your saying it works for me... it cant do both chap..did you hit the sauce tonight...?

it's just if they tell you it only works in open loop (which is what you have said they told you), they're wrong and shows they don't really know why it works for you.

Actually Ian, i didn't tell you it only works in open loop mode, in fact it was my mistake when i told you it works in closed loop mode!! - see post #47...., but correcting myself, the Module does only work in the open loop mode, as per Sol2.be web site, but again you don't understand why it works on the open loop mode, chap, we've all been at the limit of our ability to understand something, and when you reach that point it's best to listen... thats when you learn.

Bottom line, the module works for you and that's great. It didn't work in my experience, that's also fine.

So you really did hit the sauce... firstly, how can you state that the Module cannot possibly / doesn't work in one breath, then you say "the module works for you and that's great" but all the time assuming that i'm referring to the closed loop mode, when in fact that is impossible, Ian either you believe it works or you don't?? and i really couldn't give a toss what you believe, you have said nothing to convince me that you are right, but you followed that statement by saying....... wait for it....

It didn't work in my experience, that's also fine

That statement really makes you look a bit of a wally... you have no "experience" with the module whatsoever....WTF!!...sorry ill take that back..., you did say earlier that "a mate told you something". I'd say it's time to give this one up, your not convincing anyone that you are right, your theories are just theories, and the "idiot" seems to be outweighing those theories with hard facts based on user experience of the product.

BTW i never said i was 40, just old enough not to give a shit. 50 on the other hand....

You didn't have to say... i know already, but perhaps i,m not such an idiot

 

[Bem]

Now the dust appears to be settling, the question is rephrased, restated.
Apart from me, is there anyone out there who has fitted one of these thingies on a 658/800, and with what results?

 

[Smythson]

Hi Bem,

I used to have one fitted (658) that i spliced a switch into and didn't use it on my commuting miles. I'll be honest and say i didn't notice too much of a difference though i'm pretty sure it did smooth things a little but couldn't say there were any power gains. It is quite hard to measure but for me it had less effect than an oil change. There's a good thread on ADV about loops etc that is probably worth looking at.

Best,

S

 

[GregBMF]

Very interesting thread- I've just ordered one and it came to just under £30. Tbh I bought it out of curiousity as I'm pretty happy with my bike... Once it's fitted I'll share my views

Atb

Greg

 

[fezzer]

Ironically I read this entire thread last night with much amusement.
Not so funny now. Could it be my sol be interfering not so well at extreme temperatures causing my problem?
First thing tomorrow I'll be removing it to see if it's my quick fix outta here.
40 deg c not normal running conditions, especially 1 tooth down up front and motorway speed.

http://www.ukgser.com/forums/showthread.php/401644-Throttle-back-of-to-stall-problem

 

[Bem]

Just a bit of evidence of change - my long term average had stayed resolutely on 69mpg - last week moved up to 70mpg
And a bit of "impressions" - bike picks up from low revs in 2,3, or 4 like never before, in the instant style of an 1150, rather than the slightly reluctant style of both 800 and 1200`s. - at least I am happy with this cheap mod.

 

[GregBMF]

I've fitted mine this morning and went for 50 mile spin- I must say the module made a difference at low revs and I'm liking it

Atb

Greg

 

[pojoel]

Here's a diagram and some other info from Booster Plug which I hope is reasonably true, cuz within an hour I'll be trying to attach one to Madame's F800GS.

http://www.boosterplug.com/shop/cms-the_alternatives.html