Advice about rejecting 1250GSA

[Nice 'n' Fat]

I know what you mean mate, and it probably does sound dramatic to phrase it that way but I took a lot of time to decide to jump ship from my Triumph Explorer to the BMW. I test rode most other brands and similar styles of bikes, KTM Adventure, Ducati Multostrada, Honda Africa Twin etc and none of them even remotely lit my fire. For me, if the BMW goes back I’ve already ruled out the rest of the competition as an option as none of the others are right for me, at least not when I test rode them all last time.

If you like Triumph then maybe you should try the all new Tiger 900 ?

 

[the woodster]

I know what you mean mate, and it probably does sound dramatic to phrase it that way but I took a lot of time to decide to jump ship from my Triumph Explorer to the BMW. I test rode most other brands and similar styles of bikes, KTM Adventure, Ducati Multostrada, Honda Africa Twin etc and none of them even remotely lit my fire. For me, if the BMW goes back I’ve already ruled out the rest of the competition as an option as none of the others are right for me, at least not when I test rode them all last time.

I've had some problems with both my GSs, all sorted out on warranty. I feel the same as you about the GS: none of the competition is just right for me. I obviously completely understand your reluctance to buy the brand new again but what about a low mileage used one that has a few thousand miles under the wheels? I wish you the very best mate.

 

[peej1977]

Thanks for the suggestions all, nothing else out there floats my boat, including other BMW models. I have no loyalty to the brand but when I purchased the GSA it was either that or stick with the Explorer I had, nothing else on the market really flicked my switch. I'd never go back to the Explorer so I guess I'll see what happens on Wednesday and decide accordingly.

 

[peej1977]

So Tristan from BMW came out yesterday, Steve Bellars was a no show. He listened to my bike, started his own 1250 up and said it sounded fine to him and that was that. A whole days annual leave for that.

 

[JohnnyBoxer]

So Tristan from BMW came out yesterday, Steve Bellars was a no show. He listened to my bike, started his own 1250 up and said it sounded fine to him and that was that. A whole days annual leave for that.

Tristan, what's his skill level?

 

[Nutty]

So Tristan from BMW came out yesterday, Steve Bellars was a no show. He listened to my bike, started his own 1250 up and said it sounded fine to him and that was that. A whole days annual leave for that.

So that's you and bikes done then?

 

[Nice 'n' Fat]

So Tristan from BMW came out yesterday, Steve Bellars was a no show. He listened to my bike, started his own 1250 up and said it sounded fine to him and that was that. A whole days annual leave for that.

Just ride it ... You've got a 3 year warranty, if it grenades itself then they will fix it

 

[knutk]

So Tristan from BMW came out yesterday, Steve Bellars was a no show. He listened to my bike, started his own 1250 up and said it sounded fine to him and that was that. A whole days annual leave for that.

Every individual engine does have it own sound. Not much different, but it's there. Dogs can pick them easily.

I have not been remotely close to your bike, but I'll play the role of the Devils Attorney here:

What if the bike is ok? What if you have become so obsessed by the noise of the engine that you interpret ANY natural noise as a problem?

BMW mass-produce their engines like any other company, and, belive it or not, they do make great efforts to do quality control.

I understand that there has been a new engine installed, and you find there is noise that you interpret as a malfunction.

Soo, let me get the numbers straight: 99.9 % of the LC engines are ok, and occasionally a lemon passes under the radar. Your previous engine might be one of them. BMW replace your engine, and you get a brand new engine installed. And you find this engine faulty as well.
My friend, that is statistically quite a coincidence.

I understand that in your mind there is still a problem, and I can not prove you wrong as such. However, a BMW tech claims that the engine is ok. I know... the tech may be partial, and he might be paid to say so..... . But what if what he says is correct?

You obviously feel like you are banging your head against the wall and feel you get nowhere. But if the tech has examined the engine and given it a green light, you still have the warranty. If the engine does have a problem, your remarks are in the records, and if the problem is real, it will develop further and with a more noticeable fault the bike will be taken care of. (I don't know how BMW UK responds, but BMW takes care of their customers. A friend of mine had a issue with his ESA shock on a K1200GT when it was new. The shock got fixed, but 5 years later an 60 000 km the shock failed again. BMW again replaced the shock since there was a history of issues 5 years back).

If this case was my problem, I would have spoken to the dealer, claimed that even if the tech had given the bike a green light you still felt that something is wrong. I would agree to accept the bike as is for now, and open the door for the fact that the tech is right and that you may be over anxious, but that you would like to come back if your assumption is correct.

For ease of mind, what if you bring the bike to a neutral dealer and have a tech evaluate the bike, without pinpointing what the problem is. If the noise is for real, it should be recognized by others.

I do apologize if I sound harsh now, but I get the feeling that you have painted your self into a corner, and that your pleasure of owning a bike that to most people feels is great is shadowed by an obsession triggered by a problem that has been resolved.

I sincerely hope you find a solution you can live with, as the 1250 is a great bike, and it's a pity that you are not able to enjoy it.
And get a set of earplugs

 

[peej1977]

Every individual engine does have it own sound. Not much different, but it's there. Dogs can pick them easily.

I have not been remotely close to your bike, but I'll play the role of the Devils Attorney here:

What if the bike is ok? What if you have become so obsessed by the noise of the engine that you interpret ANY natural noise as a problem?

BMW mass-produce their engines like any other company, and, belive it or not, they do make great efforts to do quality control.

I understand that there has been a new engine installed, and you find there is noise that you interpret as a malfunction.

Soo, let me get the numbers straight: 99.9 % of the LC engines are ok, and occasionally a lemon passes under the radar. Your previous engine might be one of them. BMW replace your engine, and you get a brand new engine installed. And you find this engine faulty as well.
My friend, that is statistically quite a coincidence.

I understand that in your mind there is still a problem, and I can not prove you wrong as such. However, a BMW tech claims that the engine is ok. I know... the tech may be partial, and he might be paid to say so..... . But what if what he says is correct?

You obviously feel like you are banging your head against the wall and feel you get nowhere. But if the tech has examined the engine and given it a green light, you still have the warranty. If the engine does have a problem, your remarks are in the records, and if the problem is real, it will develop further and with a more noticeable fault the bike will be taken care of. (I don't know how BMW UK responds, but BMW takes care of their customers. A friend of mine had a issue with his ESA shock on a K1200GT when it was new. The shock got fixed, but 5 years later an 60 000 km the shock failed again. BMW again replaced the shock since there was a history of issues 5 years back).

If this case was my problem, I would have spoken to the dealer, claimed that even if the tech had given the bike a green light you still felt that something is wrong. I would agree to accept the bike as is for now, and open the door for the fact that the tech is right and that you may be over anxious, but that you would like to come back if your assumption is correct.

For ease of mind, what if you bring the bike to a neutral dealer and have a tech evaluate the bike, without pinpointing what the problem is. If the noise is for real, it should be recognized by others.

I do apologize if I sound harsh now, but I get the feeling that you have painted your self into a corner, and that your pleasure of owning a bike that to most people feels is great is shadowed by an obsession triggered by a problem that has been resolved.

I sincerely hope you find a solution you can live with, as the 1250 is a great bike, and it's a pity that you are not able to enjoy it.
And get a set of earplugs

You don't sound harsh at all, I totally accept that part of this is my mindset with the bike, I've had a replacement engine and then work done on the new engine that shouldn't have needed to be done. So the engine may well now be ok, but my mindset is one of distrust which I'm perfectly happy to accept is a major factor now.

I'm more annoyed that I could have saved myself using a days annual leave to be told something I knew would be what was going to be said, they were vague over the intended purpose of the meeting so I should have asked more questions perhaps.

Ultimately the bike is probably running OK now, but it's all left a sour taste in my mouth and lacking faith in it. So it's a struggle between my emotional side rhat just wants rid, and my intellectual side that accepts that the likelihood the engine is faulty is slim lol

 

[roundincircles]

Hi all, I've commented a bit on the 1250 Recalls thread but I'm getting to the end of my tether now. I realise some may read this and be of the opinion, "just ignore the noise, ride it, it's under warranty and if it blows up they'll sort it". I totally get this mindset but at the moment with the problems I've had it doesn't sit right with me to accept that on such an expensive machine.

So a short timeline of where I'm at with it:

1. Purchased the bike (7th Dec 2019) with 685miles on from Marshal BMW Grimsby.
2. The day after I noticed a rattle/tap/ticking from LHS cylinder head.
3. Bike booked in with Williams BMW Manchester for 4th Jan with 816miles on.
4. Piston slap was diagnosed as well as gear backlash, engine replacement recommended by BMW.
5. Picked bike up 18th Jan and noise is still present, but even louder. Advised to run the engine in.
6. Bike returned to Williams for oil swap at 1267 miles and told that although they can hear the noise (again on LHS) they think it's normal and in some cases some "just sound like that". They started 2 other 1250's and neither sounded even remotely similar. Advised they couldn't investigate further.
7. Bike washed for first time since engine swap and a big chunk of the frame powdercoat had been chipped off on one of the engine mounts. Reported to Williams.
8. After various conversations with Marshal about rejecting the bike they asked me to book it back in with Williams.
9. Bike was collected by Williams 12th Feb.
10. 12th Feb Williams advised me that on the LHS cylinder that both the inlet and exhaust valve clearances were so far at the upper end of the tolerances they were borderline out of spec so new shims were installed. Also frame has been painted but you can still see the indent of the chip out of it.
11. Bike still exhibits a loud pronounced ticking/rattle from LHS which is unexplained and I'm told it's the decompression valve even though it's coming from further in towards the centre of the engine than the top of the head.
12. More conversations with Marshals who have been speaking with BMW UK who suggest they get one of their own guys to come out and inspect the bike.

Currently I'm waiting on a date for this to happen but they can only do week days and they would like me to be present. Unfortunately I cannot be there on a weekday so I'll be unable to talk to the guy himself.

I'm told that "if", he agrees that the engine isn't right, they will go down the rejection route. There was an inference that if he deems the bike to be healthy then they will not allow rejection, I'm currently waiting for someone to confirm my understanding of this comment.

I've got 3 friends all with the 1250 who have mileages exceeding 10,000 miles in some cases and none exhibit this noise. I feel almost silly for being so hung up on a noise that doesn't seem to affect performance but after the issues I've had my faith in the bike isn't exactly great.

I know noone can really tell me what I should do, but I'm curious what people think. As I said above I know some people will think I'm being melodramatic but for me this feels like I'm being fobbed off with a "oh they all do that" excuse.

Thanks

I have not read the many replies to your question. Regarding rejection. If the bike is not fit for the purpose you can reject it. If the bike is faulty after 30 days the dealer has 'a reasonable amount of time to rectify' and if they don't then the bike is rejectable......keep an email trail of all events and outcomes. The difficulty is that engine noise does not make the bike unfit unless it can be established that it is a threat to the bikes operation or rider safety.

I have had engines and gearboxes swapped on GS's. The key was I laid out what I was experiencing in an email to the dealer who then made the effort to represent that to BMW IF THEY DON'T MAKE THE EFFORT nothing happens. I did have BMW HQ strip down a RT that pinked and ran lean, eventually, they found out it had a USA engine map which caused the problem