Advice Please

[THE DOCTOR]

I picked up my new bike last week & found the previous owner's address in the service history. I wrote to him & got this reply...

Hi Phil,

I sold my old bike to Kens Motorcycles in Newcastle Upon Tyne at the back end of September last year, I have since heard that the person who bought it then has been in touch with the supplying dealer ( Mill BMW of Boldon ) as he was not happy with it, I'm not sure if it was you or not.

As for the history of that machine, where should I start? It has never been crashed although my legs proved to be too short on one occasioin not long after I bought it, hence the scratch on the left cylinder. However it proved to be the worst buying decision which I ever made as it was by far the most unreliable and disapointing bag of crap which I have ever had the misfortune to own, let me explain

after 1000 mile the final drive hub required replacing as it had developed too much play,

shortly after this both of the lower spark plugs failed ( the insulating core developed some slack in the holder ) this caused combustion gases to wreck one of the spark plug caps/coils which required the services of the breakdown people

after another 1000 miles or so the final drive hub was replaced again as the part which had been fitted previously had not been painted properly,

when approx 5000 miles wher on the clock the gearbox required a full replacement as it was making odd noises and shortly after this the final drive hub required replacing yet again as it was worn out, although I was never happy with this hub as it always seemed to have some slack on it, grab it at quarter to 3 when on the centre stand and try to wigle the wheel, you should be able to feel it move, it has more slack on it when hot, although it may have been changed again since Sep

to cap all this, the bike had a software mod to prevent the battery going flat but it still did, to the extent that if it was left in the garage for over a week or so it would not start.

If you were to take my advice and it's not too late, I would take it back from where you got it and get your money bike as I feel it is what the saleman in the BMW dealers has been quoted as saying "that it must be a friday afternoon bike" not good enough really is it.

I went a bought a nice Suzuki v strom perhaps not as nice to look at and not as good handling as the gs can be but at least I feel I can rely on it.

Please accept my apologies if this puts a dampener on thinngs for you.

What do you recon I should do? The bike feels fine to me. I wrote to the previous owner only because I saw his address on the service history.
Imagine my surprise when I got that reply.
I bought it from a BMW dealer (Southport Superbikes) with a used BMW 12 months warrantee. As I say, it feels fine to me atm (no play at all in the rear hub.

Phil.

 

[marcus]

Certainly worth getting a comment from the dealer, who will probably reply along the lines of "caveat emptor warranty costus maximus denarii"

Counter argument however:


Equally I got told a couple of years back "must have been a friday afternoon bike" - it was eventually taken in by BMW after gearbox failure number 3 in the first year (if I recall) and I never saw it again - got a new 'un.

I'm pretty it was sold onto another punter though as when trying to book in for repairs on the current one I gave the reg for the old one and they said OK Mr Goggins (or whatever )
from that I assume that the bike that got through 3 gearboxes 3 top boxes 2 electrical systems 2 batteries and about 10 calls to BMW arsist is still out there being serviced by the same BMW dealer. Hopefully with a lot less bother than I had.


It might be a fellow forum member

So the question remains:

If the dealer is aware that the vehicle has a problematic history and has been in for countless repairs under warranty, are they obliged to disclose to a potential buyer and if asked "how many times was this vehicle in for repair when under warranty" are they obliged to answer?

 

[Gas'd Off]

Don't do anything except ride! Sounds like all the teething problems were sorted by the previous owner

 

[JayGee]

I can imagine your concern to get such a letter from a previous owner but I doubt that the seller would think that grounds for a refund.
It seems to me that the previous owner had three problems, final drive, battery going flat and gearbox. Whilst non of these should happen with a new bike thay aren'r disastrous provided they have been fixed, and they are all problems that not unknown to a few other owners
FINAL DRIVE
Some early models did have a manufacturing fault on the final drives but it looks like that has been fixed on yours now.
BATTERY
The battery discharge problem has been fixed now provided you have the latest software. If the battery or charging is not up to spec you'll soon find out and get it replaced under warranty.
GEARBOX
The gearbox has been replaced so should be OK

My advice would be to discuss your concerns with the dealer, maybe they would be willing to extend the used warranty beyond the first year, Then just try and forget the letter and judge it by your own experiences.

TBH I nearly got paranoid about mine after reading all the bad experiences of people on here. I've had two new wheels, new main oil seals, quite a few software updates, two recalls and new front engine plate. Not really acceptable on a new bike but things seem to have settled down so I'm looking to keep mine for a while now.

I can appreciate this is not a good start to ownership but iit's what you experience on the bike that matters. I hope it goes well for you, good luck.

 

[Paul Wakefield]

Years ago I was talking to a dealer (can't remember who now) about reliability and used bikes. He said that, strangely, previous history often gave no indication about the future on a change of owner. Some bikes which hadn't had a moment's problem start falling apart with the new owner and real dogs have behaved impeccably with subsequent owners (and it wasn't as simple as to how each owner rode and maintained them).

Make of that what you will!

Paul

 

[Yoda]

You've got a 12 month warranty so I'd suggest that you carefully log any issues you might have with the bike.

It's a bummer though to receive such information. As has been pointed out, the bike is probably in far better nick now that it was when it came off the production line on Friday or whatever day of the week.

Some of these so-called "battery" problems are (IMO) caused by people inadvertently leaving the sidelights on. I'd say that at least once a week I unknowingly catch one of the indicator flippers as I get off the bike. This activates the sidelights and it's only because I'll then unload my work stuff from one of the panniers that I notice the rear light is on, so I have to reset the ignition to turn them off.

 

[chasr]

I really wouldn't worry. In fact, learning that the bike hasn't been dropped is a bonus.

The final drive failures are well known, and quite rare now, I'm sure. Yours has been fixed - it shouldn't re-occur. Again, if you had an early bike (04 - plate), and you knew about these failures, you might be worried that yours was 'about to go.' You don't need to worry now.

The battery software problem is also well known. I am told that dealers are reluctant to perform some of the battery software mods as they can introduce new problems. As has been said many times, stick in on an Optimate - and don't worry.

One can hardly blame the spark plug failure on BMW (unless, of course, they were over-tightened).

The first owner (quite rightly) got piddled off with his new BMW, and bought another bike. His loss is your gain. Enjoy.

 

[Sgt Bilco]

I deal in used heavy trucks ( a kind of Arthur Daly with Diesel ) and I have found that second time around, any vehicle can be completely different.

I`ve had plenty of instance where a truck was an absolute bag of shite, had in the workshop, checked and repaired it and we`ve sold it to a new owner who`s had no problems whatsoever.

I dunno why this is but it`s quite common. I would perhaps check with the dealer and investigate what work they did on the bike. I`m sure it will be fine and just enjoy it..!!

Hope this helps a bit.

 

[THE DOCTOR]

Thanks for al your input guys, I wish I hadn't written to the previous owner now.
I've had the bike for a week now & done about 150 miles, (I've been busy, I plan to do at least that mileage today around N.Wales). So far the bike has been a peach rather than a lemon and I've enjoyed every minute. After reading the prev. owners reply I've been checking the rear hub, which is fine & the battery (with a multi meter) which so far has maintained a healthy 12.6v.

I'm going to put all the comments made by the previous owner out of my head now & judge the bike for myself.

Thanks again & see you out there.

 

[Paul Wakefield]

Thanks for al your input guys, I wish I hadn't written to the previous owner now.
I've had the bike for a week now & done about 150 miles, (I've been busy, I plan to do at least that mileage today around N.Wales). So far the bike has been a peach rather than a lemon and I've enjoyed every minute. After reading the prev. owners reply I've been checking the rear hub, which is fine & the battery (with a multi meter) which so far has maintained a healthy 12.6v.

I'm going to put all the comments made by the previous owner out of my head now & judge the bike for myself.

Thanks again & see you out there.

 

[Dellis]

Thanks for al your input guys, I wish I hadn't written to the previous owner now.
I've had the bike for a week now & done about 150 miles, (I've been busy, I plan to do at least that mileage today around N.Wales). So far the bike has been a peach rather than a lemon and I've enjoyed every minute. After reading the prev. owners reply I've been checking the rear hub, which is fine & the battery (with a multi meter) which so far has maintained a healthy 12.6v.

I'm going to put all the comments made by the previous owner out of my head now & judge the bike for myself.

Thanks again & see you out there.

The right decision! Ride it, enjoy it and forget you ever wrote to the previous owner.

Dave

 

[chasr]

Let us know, in a few months, how the bike has behaved.

 

[Howard Millichap]

Let us know, in a few months, how the bike has behaved.

If he survives the rear wheel falling off!

 

[guffter6969]

Aye panzerphil, keep us posted as I still drop in every now and again, being the previous owner of the aforementioned lemon ( my opinion hopefully not yours ), do a search of the threads that I have added to and you should see the trouble I had with the thing.
Ta Guffter6969

 

[jonothan]

Phil, it's my guess that this bike will give you trouble-free service.. It seems that it has had a few problems, which have been ironed out now. Good luck, and enjoy your new ride.

Cheers!

J

 

[minkyhead]

I picked up my new bike last week & found the previous owner's address in the service history. I wrote to him & got this reply...

Hi Phil,

I sold my old bike to Kens Motorcycles in Newcastle Upon Tyne at the back end of September last year, I have since heard that the person who bought it then has been in touch with the supplying dealer ( Mill BMW of Boldon ) as he was not happy with it, I'm not sure if it was you or not.

As for the history of that machine, where should I start? It has never been crashed although my legs proved to be too short on one occasioin not long after I bought it, hence the scratch on the left cylinder. However it proved to be the worst buying decision which I ever made as it was by far the most unreliable and disapointing bag of crap which I have ever had the misfortune to own, let me explain

after 1000 mile the final drive hub required replacing as it had developed too much play,

shortly after this both of the lower spark plugs failed ( the insulating core developed some slack in the holder ) this caused combustion gases to wreck one of the spark plug caps/coils which required the services of the breakdown people

after another 1000 miles or so the final drive hub was replaced again as the part which had been fitted previously had not been painted properly,

when approx 5000 miles wher on the clock the gearbox required a full replacement as it was making odd noises and shortly after this the final drive hub required replacing yet again as it was worn out, although I was never happy with this hub as it always seemed to have some slack on it, grab it at quarter to 3 when on the centre stand and try to wigle the wheel, you should be able to feel it move, it has more slack on it when hot, although it may have been changed again since Sep

to cap all this, the bike had a software mod to prevent the battery going flat but it still did, to the extent that if it was left in the garage for over a week or so it would not start.

If you were to take my advice and it's not too late, I would take it back from where you got it and get your money bike as I feel it is what the saleman in the BMW dealers has been quoted as saying "that it must be a friday afternoon bike" not good enough really is it.

I went a bought a nice Suzuki v strom perhaps not as nice to look at and not as good handling as the gs can be but at least I feel I can rely on it.

Please accept my apologies if this puts a dampener on thinngs for you.

What do you recon I should do? The bike feels fine to me. I wrote to the previous owner only because I saw his address on the service history.
Imagine my surprise when I got that reply.
I bought it from a BMW dealer (Southport Superbikes) with a used BMW 12 months warrantee. As I say, it feels fine to me atm (no play at all in the rear hub.

Phil.

often wondered what happened to my two 1200s especially the first one
iwouldnt sell it privatly i didnt want it on my concionce ater brake failure and jammed throttle [same time ] it was very scary i was trying to cross to the cental reservation of a dual carriagway when it happened it was just luck i wasnt killed .. [from that moment i was out of love with it ]
happened again on a overtake closed throttle cos i changed me mind and it kept driving forward
after it had dissapered three weeks to be fixed

they never traced the fault as the computer said [no faults ] and to this day is was never diagnosed ...they replaced all the throttle bodies and the wiring loom /sensors and god knows what
but err indoors refused to get on it again so after astand off it was replaced [plus 1400 quid ] for another
which failed to start twice and then failed with the fual pump

mine were brand new but if id been sold one with that history i would not be a happy bunny
bail out before all your well planned holidays go tits up

mine were breaking down about every 12 weeks over 18 months s i figured i was a 1 to six chance of bieng stranded abroad and gave up and sold it

i have to say the 1150 before it gave me good service but the 1200 is not that reliable at all
there is life after bmw just like there was before
bought meself a varadero and a v stom and ive still got 1400 quid left and its been a really good move
i hope yours has been cured i really do but dont hold your breath

takeyour bike on its merits or not but your going to get extreams on here like my posting for instance
at the other end of the scale there are people so brand loyal that they would carry them on their backs before admitting there is a problem ..
and quite a few in between [voices of moderation ]
im afraid im with gufter and more than a few others who have been shafted by the 1200 expieriance ..yes i am still bitter about it but it is the truth ....

 

[minkyhead]

If he survives the rear wheel falling off!

nothing to do with me but one in ten thousand is more than enough to convince me ...............
the more digging you do the more worrying failures you come accross
there have been postings on here the rear wheel held on just by the brake caliper ect ect postings of spectacular failures are not that uncommon brake servos /residual braking [sic] final drives
jumping gears ......
wakey wakey it could be your bike in the wrong place at the wrong time ...these are spectacularly unaccepable ....????

 

[steforsh]

minkyhead;902863]often wondered what happened to my two 1200s especially the first one
iwouldnt sell it privatly i didnt want it on my concionce ater brake failure and jammed throttle [same time ] it was very scary i was trying to cross to the cental reservation of a dual carriagway when it happened it was just luck i wasnt killed .. [from that moment i was out of love with it ]
happened again on a overtake closed throttle cos i changed me mind and it kept driving forward
after it had dissapered three weeks to be fixed

they never traced the fault as the computer said [no faults ] and to this day is was never diagnosed ...they replaced all the throttle bodies and the wiring loom /sensors and god knows what
but err indoors refused to get on it again so after astand off it was replaced [plus 1400 quid ] for another
which failed to start twice and then failed with the fual pump

mine were brand new but if id been sold one with that history i would not be a happy bunny
bail out before all your well planned holidays go tits up

mine were breaking down about every 12 weeks over 18 months s i figured i was a 1 to six chance of bieng stranded abroad and gave up and sold it

i have to say the 1150 before it gave me good service but the 1200 is not that reliable at all
there is life after bmw just like there was before
bought meself a varadero and a v stom and ive still got 1400 quid left and its been a really good move
i hope yours has been cured i really do but dont hold your breath

takeyour bike on its merits or not but your going to get extreams on here like my posting for instance
at the other end of the scale there are people so brand loyal that they would carry them on their backs before admitting there is a problem ..
and quite a few in between [voices of moderation ]
im afraid im with gufter and more than a few others who have been shafted by the 1200 expieriance ..yes i am still bitter about it but it is the truth ...[/CODE].

i have one. the 2nd one i hope.... sorry i can't post a pic but its no longer red... a nice shade of midnight graphite ( think bmw 1 series / mini )

i've put another 5000m on it, including a round trip of scotland, with no probs at all. it's been great.

much more reliable than my mates ktm 950,which, although it's not had a major let down, it's had it fair share of niggles.

i'll be keeping it a while so i'll keep you posted if things take a turn for the worse.

 

[Pukmeister]

Minkyhead, why is the 1200 in your first pic with rear drive failure showing a heavily dented rear rim? Is that cause or effect ?? The paralever looks like its still connected and only the FD housing has failed at the hinge/knuckle area.

Are you sure its not from a heavy rear impact (following car too close ??) rather than a FD unit failure. If so, you can hardly blame BMW.

The burning 1200adv rear hub looks like another story though......

 

[minkyhead]

i have one. the 2nd one i hope.... sorry i can't post a pic but its no longer red... a nice shade of midnight graphite ( think bmw 1 series / mini )

i've put another 5000m on it, including a round trip of scotland, with no probs at all. it's been great.

much more reliable than my mates ktm 950,which, although it's not had a major let down, it's had it fair share of niggles.

i'll be keeping it a while so i'll keep you posted if things take a turn for the worse.

happily if your from holmes area you have the 2nd 06 one the only faults on that one were a flat battery and the fuel pump failing which in fairness was mentioned before the sale

i assure you i would not of sold anyone the first one i had thats for sure ..that was one dangerouse mother *******
it a combination of the two bikes the last beakdown was the last straw
id spent 500 quid the week before on a remus system and was bitten again stranded in the pissing down rain lost all friday night and all saturday morning . cos i needed the bike for work sunday i had to cough up the taxi fare to collect it..
that was the end of it there and then
enough was enough
i am really pleased that its behaving .it was sold in good faith with no known faults and i hope that long may continue

this last breakdown example is part of the problem the fual pump sender unit was replaced probably only took 30 minits ..but there is no mod no upgrade the same problem remains so as we all know check the pump housing...
cos it could be filling with water again ????nothing to stop it
to me its just not good enough the same time bomb ticking not a major problem to fix if you have the part and know of the problem ..unless maby your in the middle of norway perhaps without a spare
i covered the one on the first bike with gortex off an old coat after emptying the water out again
11 grand should i be doing this ???
i nievley thought that the later model would have had a mod done to cure it but it obviosley didnt leaving me with a perfectly preventable breakdown
you would have thought after three years there would be a mod and a recall ..but no ......?????
even worse still turning out the new ones with the same old fault
unless somone can confirm a more recent mod for 2007 bikes [not before time ]
things like this add to your frustration especially after the first one which was a very naughty bike indeed ....

so apart from the horrors of the first one there are other factors that caused me to call it a day as i hope peaple will appriciate
just lost the confidence to book a ferry plus margaret was never that happy after the throttle/brakes thing on the first bike which as i say was never actually diagnosed as to the cause ???

any way got me half pad in turkey and still ended up with another bike so alls well that ends i supose

happy gsing regards steve





any way got me half pad in