Anatomy of the accident....

[(RIP) Edvard Munch]

Call me gauche but it didn't look like a 'tank slapper' to me

Having ridden erm what are now termed 'classic' bikes and as Steppers said, tankslappers hurt your thumbs

High frequency uncontrollable movement from lock to lock that takes the bars out of your hands whether you like it or not.

I'm not saying that it wouldn't have been tricky to control but the rear slid out and rather than committing to getting the bike back on some sort of line he opted for the Bear Grylls off road option no doubt transfixed by his apparent lack of front brakes

He didn't need to brake, his speed was not excessive IMHO, the corner was not steep but sweeping he just (understandably) cacked his pants and bailed out into what turned out to be a much worse, rocky, hard, unforgiving situation.

In true internet stylee he hints at various mechanical failure scenarios which don't really make sense IMHO but at least might absolve the rider from some 'blame'.

There may be a load of other contributory factors as previously posted, if it had happened to me it would definitely have invoked the half a crown sixpence sphincter

 

[Posh Pete]

Downhill sweeper during which he appears to push the bike into a tighter line. Bike sits up as a result and all hell breaks loose as he responds by overcompensating. There but for the grace of God ...

 

[adventuredon]

The guy is a biker; a member of our 'family'. He has an accident and gets badly injured.

On the back of this, we're all suddenly Riding Gods, quick to point out all his rookie errors and kick him when he's down.

I'm with you on this one. He doesn't come across as looking for grievance, he seems sensible, analytical and experienced. He has done everything we all do when riding, pulling off at side of road (full of loose clippings- if you must), setting off again to get line Not excessive speed. No light flashing on his dash, no brakes (a lot on here forget he tried to brake). He hasn't hidden any details. To me it doesn't make sense all this "gravel on tyres"...We all know tyres are far more forgiving than we can actually ride. It does look like the bars were working of their own accord, for whatever reason. But with all the rider aids BMW have on their new bikes, surely that should not have happened. he even mentions a damper (which as I recall was an after launch addition- so problem must have been there). I think he deserves more credit and time than being written off as a speed junkie/ powerranger who can't ride

 

[Tractors are go]

I'm with you on this one. He doesn't come across as looking for grievance, he seems sensible, analytical and experienced. He has done everything we all do when riding, pulling off at side of road (full of loose clippings- if you must), setting off again to get line Not excessive speed. No light flashing on his dash, no brakes (a lot on here forget he tried to brake). He hasn't hidden any details. To me it doesn't make sense all this "gravel on tyres"...We all know tyres are far more forgiving than we can actually ride. It does look like the bars were working of their own accord, for whatever reason. But with all the rider aids BMW have on their new bikes, surely that should not have happened. he even mentions a damper (which as I recall was an after launch addition- so problem must have been there). I think he deserves more credit and time than being written off as a speed junkie/ powerranger who can't ride

He is someone who asked for people's opinions and they were provided. Some maybe wrong some even right, who knows.

The man it happened too, who has viewed this probably countless times still isn't 100% sure.

What is fact is he needs help to get over this, it maybe counselling, cbt, rider training.

None of us are him, he has had a very lucky escape from a life threatening moment, we all cope and deal with situations as individuals.
Not better, not worse, just different.

Maybe he will ride again, maybe not, none of us know. But hopefully we can all wish him well no matter what happens.

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[ianboydsnr]

For some reason the bars have turned to the left, whilst he is banked over, this stands the bike up, he reacts to that causing the steering wobble, it’s not a tankslapper as such, he Kept maintaining the lean and continuing riding the bend, he picks the bike up for some reason, and rides across the road, he says that the front brake doesn’t work, no idea why that would be

His mistake is picking the bike back up and riding across the road, and not re leaning once he was running out of road, quite understandable that he did it in the circumstances,

Maybe he had a little too much feedback from the rear, maybe he had a twitch, nothing apart from possibly the brake is the bikes fault,

I have done the same possibly, would I be blaming myself if I did definitely,

Conclusion, if your banked over on a left hand bend, and you manage despite it needing considerable effort to turn the bars left, the bike will stand up quickly, and you will creat a tankslapper in trying to control it.

 

[Morety]

I'm sure that we all wish him well and hope that he gets over the trauma of his terrible injuries. No one wishes that sort of outcome on anyone and it's pretty tragic that it happened. On that we're all agreed I'm sure.

As Tractors are Go says, opinions were asked for and given. They're offered in an attempt to look at things in the cold light of day and see if lessons can be learned from the perspective of not knowing this guy and simply observing the clues from the video. Some need to wind their necks in a little and if they cannot offer anything constructive, it's offering nothing to the debate to criticise those that are. To set the record straight, I can't see anyone referring to him as a "power ranger" who cannot ride or anything like that and from my point of view I don't consider him to be anything of the sort.

There were a few errors in his riding that most likely have contributed massively to his accident. That's a perfectly fair assessment and if he can learn from that then perhaps he can overcome the need to examine the minutia of detail such as what started the tank slapper, when the bigger picture was his approach, positioning, speed, gear and control. There's no suggestion of speeding being a contributing factor but there is a suggestion of positioning (after turning in too early) and gear selection both not helping him.

 

[Delboy777]

For some reason the bars have turned to the left, whilst he is banked over, this stands the bike up, he reacts to that causing the steering wobble, it’s not a tankslapper as such, he Kept maintaining the lean and continuing riding the bend, he picks the bike up for some reason, and rides across the road, he says that the front brake doesn’t work, no idea why that would be

His mistake is picking the bike back up and riding across the road, and not re leaning once he was running out of road, quite understandable that he did it in the circumstances,

Maybe he had a little too much feedback from the rear, maybe he had a twitch, nothing apart from possibly the brake is the bikes fault,

I have done the same possibly, would I be blaming myself if I did definitely,

Conclusion, if your banked over on a left hand bend, and you manage despite it needing considerable effort to turn the bars left, the bike will stand up quickly, and you will creat a tankslapper in trying to control it.

The front brake didnt work because of pad push back in the calipers due to the violent side to side movement of the bars. Im only guessing but thats my tuppence worth.

 

[boatman]

I had one on a pan 1300 at about 130mph


I remember thinking 'Ahhhh ...... so thats what they're talking about ...... '

Was that a " Work bike " or a standard one ?

 

[ianboydsnr]

The front brake didnt work because of pad push back in the calipers due to the violent side to side movement of the bars. Im only guessing but thats my tuppence worth.

I am not convinced about that, sounds a bit far fetched, I have had a few tank flappers in my time and it’s never done that on any of them.

 

[DC]

feel sorry for the rider.....A few things could have caused it. he was definitely fighting the Slapper,and grabbing at his brake. I thought it was advised not to fight it. I suppose its an instant reaction to Brake though .It does look like this front wheel is the cause of this, crap from the lay by ? to much lean angle for the tyre ? too much acceleration trying to catch his friends? for what ever reason its lifted up and with the top box weight,which might be exceeding the recommended weight, the front is now very light and flighty. Difficult to control. I think there was quite alot of target fixation here too, he did seem to be getting a grasp of the "wobble" only to keep going to the right, were his vision was definitely fixated. Had he look the other way ??? .......easy for us to speculate now its all over and done with......The only Positive thing is nothing was approaching on the other side of the road, otherwise I think this may have been a different outcome altogether ....hope he recovers from his bad injuries and gets to make more vids for his riding mates.

 

[Tractors are go]

The front brake didnt work because of pad push back in the calipers due to the violent side to side movement of the bars. Im only guessing but thats my tuppence worth.

Totally agree.

Had it several times on the track, once you know what's wrong it's easy to solve.

This was probably his first oh shit occasion and he ran out of time and space.

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[Tractors are go]

I am not convinced about that, sounds a bit far fetched, I have had a few tank flappers in my time and it’s never done that on any of them.

Too high a gear for speed, wrong position for the corner, looks like they hit a worn patch of the road and it kicked back.

As for the tankslapper, if he'd relaxed a bit more...

The lack of brakes is caused by the tankslapper knocking the pads back in the caliper, couple of quick squeezes they'd have been fine.

If your pegs ain't touching the deck you can lean it over further, but by now it is target fixation.

Like everything a culmination of lots of small things making it a big problem.

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[Giles]

Was that a " Work bike " or a standard one ?

My own. (standard). It came on under acceleration from a slip onto a dual carriageway. I was in lane two, upright and bang .... lock stop to lock stop! Never had anything like that before or since. I tried to recreate it several times out of curiosity (same slip on, same speed) and never could. It was that really (that, randomness as to when it would, when it wouldn't) that was the real problem.

It was off the back of that the BM scored the marketing coup of Police sales. Honda did what they could but ultimately washed their hands saying 'you, the cops. have altered the bike with all sorts of add ons and weight penalties - we won't give you any warranty'. BM immediately announced, 'We'll make you a factory bike bike with all the bells and whistles and give you a warranty'. Marketing success over night. The RT's you see are basically the same bike from Australia to Europe to California.

 

[Tractors are go]

My own. (standard). It came on under acceleration from a slip onto a dual carriageway. I was in lane two, upright and bang .... lock stop to lock stop! Never had anything like that before or since. I tried to recreate it several times out of curiosity (same slip on, same speed) and never could. It was that really (that, randomness as to when it would, when it wouldn't) that was the real problem.

It was off the back of that the BM scored the marketing coup of Police sales. Honda did what they could but ultimately washed their hands saying 'you, the cops. have altered the bike with all sorts of add ons and weight penalties - we won't give you any warranty'. BM immediately announced, 'We'll make you a factory bike bike with all the bells and whistles and give you a warranty'. Marketing success over night. The RT's you see are basically the same bike from Australia to Europe to California.

Honda also shot themselves in the foot over trade in values.

I was told it was all Mets fault with the requirement for kerb hopping. Early pans were bashing their sumps in.

Who knows the truth, the HO will never admit the spec was a fuck up.

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[Andi_archer]

I did hear a few years ago from ex met riders in the Pan club weather true or not, that the frames were cut on all the Police Pan European bikes before being sold off so that no one could make a claim for selling defective goods.

 

[Tractors are go]

I did hear a few years ago from ex met riders in the Pan club weather true or not, that the frames were cut on all the Police Pan European bikes before being sold off so that no one could make a claim for selling defective goods.

Yes.

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[PH1969]

Out of interest what year was his bike?

I didn't get an answer on this but there was no steering dampers on the 2013 LC bikes.
Looks to me like he made a simple error which he compounded by panic instead of making a decision on how to correct it. You have to feel sorry for him as the punishment far outweighed the crime on this.

 

[Morety]

I didn't get an answer on this but there was no steering dampers on the 2013 LC bikes.
Looks to me like he made a simple error which he compounded by panic instead of making a decision on how to correct it. You have to feel sorry for him as the punishment far outweighed the crime on this.

+1. Absolutely. When we think back on our own experiences I think that many of us have been lucky to walk away with bruises and scratches from similar offs. This guy was very unlucky.

 

[ianboydsnr]

+1. Absolutely. When we think back on our own experiences I think that many of us have been lucky to walk away with bruises and scratches from similar offs. This guy was very unlucky.

I had a tank slapped on a straight road, spat me off the bike it was that bad, at 80mph, still got a few little scars from that, but I was out drinking that same evening, and nothing broken, it happened that fast, that I was off before I knew about it,

It was a Kawasaki 500 four, less than a week old in 1979, with handle bar fairing fitted.

 

[Delboy777]

I am not convinced about that, sounds a bit far fetched, I have had a few tank flappers in my time and it’s never done that on any of them.

You've been very lucky then. Its a very common thing on the track. I personnaly have never had it either, but then again i've never had a tank slapper !