Another 1150 not starting

[Hubba94]

Evening all,

After trying for many nights, I still can’t get the b*****d going!!!

We swapped out the engine a couple of weeks ago for an 1150r twin spark replacement, just the block & heads, nothing else. Everything else came off the old engine which was all working prior to it all coming off! (Engine was FUBAR because of a previous owner thinking ringing off the crank pulley threads and loctiting them back in place was ok, thus bending 7 of 8 valves when it spun...)

Anyway, it timed up ok, fuel pump kicks in at TDC doing the manual alignment using the tab hole visible on the right side. Both injectors are spraying fuel with a fair amount of gusto. All 4 plugs have a strong spark when it turns over. Throttle cables are seated properly too. The bike turns over well and at speed, occasionally emits a slight backfire but nothing else to give an indication of running. Even resorted to easy start!!

It’s also had a new fuel pump & filter. New battery and new hall sensor. Still no joy. I’ve checked all the harnesses for nipped wires and throttle cable routing.

Is there something I’m missing?!

Must be something I’ve missed...

 

[The Other PaulG]

Can’t offer anything other than sympathy. It sounds like you have checked everything very thoroughly...but clearly something’s not right. Fuel, compression, correctly timed spark under compression...it should run. Maybe just check everything again from scratch and wait for the more experienced folk to offer their wisdom.

 

[Robbi]

Coils swapped over.?

 

[Hubba94]

Not something I’ve thought about!! I shall be trying that tomorrow...

 

[Ian J Hartley]

Coils swapped over.?

Makes no difference. It’s a wasted spark system. Both plugs and both injectors fire at the same time. One hall sensor fires the plugs, and the other sensor 180 degrees later fires the injectors.

 

[golfy1]

OK, start with the basics - again....!
Do you have a spark, fuel and compression - check all of these.
If you do, the fault ( ? faults ! ) are outside the engine.
I would also check TDC is true.
Other than that work through the 3 factors logically, and in my experience ASSUME NOTHING.
Also sometimes its a good idea to walk away for a while
Let us know how it goes.
Cheers

 

[DrFarkoff]

Coils don't matter its a wasted spark system !

Any farts or Bangs out of it at all???

LOL Cheers Ian That will teach me to refresh the page before posting

Makes no difference. It’s a wasted spark system. Both plugs and both injectors fire at the same time. One hall sensor fires the plugs, and the other sensor 180 degrees later fires the injectors.

 

[HTB]

Sounds like a timing issue (even though it set up ok), given you’ve got spark, fuel and the occasional backfire - possibly as you’ve got enough fuel in the cylinders to ignite when the plugs fire at the wrong time.... good luck. I recall it’s a wasted spark system?.

If you hadn’t read this thread, could be helpful?

https://www.ukgser.com/forums/showthread.php/31919-Ignition-Timing

 

[DrFarkoff]

(Engine was FUBAR because of a previous owner thinking ringing off the crank pulley threads and loctiting them back in place was ok, thus bending 7 of 8 valves when it spun...).

What Bike are you actually working on here ?? 1150 Twin Spark ??

Crank Pulley threads ?? Crank has One Bolt which holds on the timing disc Will have no effect on valves ??

Was it Camshaft Chain sprockets ?

How did you time the valves?

What compression do you have ?

You say Fuel injected, Spray a water pistol jet or well atomised?

Just bouncing ideas around

Unplug the Lamda Probe and check the throttle position sensor you want 0.38 volt between the rear most pin and a Good earth

I have seen bits "Ding" the lamda and short it internally causing schite starting and running

 

[Ian J Hartley]

Have you checked all the sensor connections, lambda, TPS, air temp and oil temp. When I say check, have a good look and make sure you haven’t got any unlocked pins pushed back in the connector.

Has the TPS voltage been set correctly.

You have changed the Hall sensor. Is there any possibility that you have incorrectly refitted the rotor. It is keyed so it fits the crankshaft in only one position, but if it’s out then the timing will be way out. If it is fitted correctly then have you tried moving the hall sensor plate, there are a few degrees of adjustment via the slotted holes.

The fact that you have fuel and spark, and I’m assuming compression, then it’s more likely timing. Which is fixed by the crankshaft (hall sensor).

In theory you should be able to swop the left and right plug leads and injection leads over from one side to the other and the bike should still run. Provided the timing cycle is correct.

 

[Hubba94]

Cheers chaps, I shall be stripping down and starting again I think. Recheck EVERYTHING! I’ll set the timing again etc etc. I’ll keep you posted, as always chaps, as pleasure

 

[fox889]

Can you get the timing on these old girls 180 degrees out like a car? May look like TDC but it actually isn't. Just a thought?

 

[Hubba94]

Not entirely sure what it was but a strip down including removal of the hall sensor has certainly helped! Away we go... cheers for the support chaps, just needed to go over it again!

Can you get the timing on these old girls 180 degrees out like a car? May look like TDC but it actually isn't. Just a thought?

 

[plrb]

Any fuel in her?

 

[DrFarkoff]

Can you get the timing on these old girls 180 degrees out like a car? May look like TDC but it actually isn't. Just a thought?

No because it sparks and injects every TDC Just one is on the compression stroke at the time