You need to see the whole graph to determine a strong map. Not just read the top BHP number
Another Hilltop Convert
- Thread starter ShakeyGS
- Start date
I'm going to have my AT Hilltopped and will compare it back to back with another one I have use of, both are decatted and Dct models .
Pick up the phone, tell him you're not happy, and would like a refund. What's the problem with doing that?
I asked a simple question which was, to show me, where it states this refund policy, where's the problem with that ? If its that much of a 'no quibble refund' I would expect it to say so somewhere. I would also expect it's his main USP, from the way you are banging on about it, but can't find any mention
Blackal , you say the same as Nutty, can point out where I can find details of this guarantee, where is it stated?
So what the fuck is it then, a sort of semi promise only to those in the know ???
You can decide that for yourself?
But - maybe instead of acting all whiney now, you should have asked Geoff at the time?
Ah so you start getting personal, crack on.
it wasnt and isn't advertised anywhere, How can I ask him for a refund when it ain't advertised anywhere. Even you can't find it, but think you heard someone mention it, sometime, maybe, sort of.
I'll state again Geoff frequented this site, probably still does, and I would if it was my business. He must have seen the 'few' negative threads, so why not simply pm them and make the offer, if it's as clear cut as you say?
I have little doubt that the standard fuelling can be improved and I’m sure that Hilltop pretty much definitely does this, many have attested to improved performance..
Equally there will be people who won’t notice the improvement perhaps, I for one have a wooden arse when it comes to suspension settings.
Where I had a problem was with the many before and after charts, I simply don’t believe that a near 30% increase (pre-toilet days!) could not be felt as an increase kick in the jacksy. Some +30 candidates commenting on the much smoother running when asked.
Having said that it was widely known that Geoff would return to standard and refund the cost if unhappy.
I have chosen the AF-XIED route, I am getting far better fuelling and torque does appear improved and continues to as the miles go on, still early days but I think it has proved to be a viable alternative. And it has resale value should I decide to change the bike in the future.
Equally there will be people who won’t notice the improvement perhaps, I for one have a wooden arse when it comes to suspension settings.
Where I had a problem was with the many before and after charts, I simply don’t believe that a near 30% increase (pre-toilet days!) could not be felt as an increase kick in the jacksy. Some +30 candidates commenting on the much smoother running when asked.
Having said that it was widely known that Geoff would return to standard and refund the cost if unhappy.
I have chosen the AF-XIED route, I am getting far better fuelling and torque does appear improved and continues to as the miles go on, still early days but I think it has proved to be a viable alternative. And it has resale value should I decide to change the bike in the future.
you were advised several times to revert to Hilltop - but 7 months on...... you are still whining. You can apply your 'hurt filter' and complain that is 'personal', but there really is no way of sugar-coating it.
Your seeming reluctance back then, appears at odds with your "So what the fuck is it, then........" - in-your-face temperament now?
Strange behaviour, to me.
Devil
Registered user
I'm going to put my two cents in..
I had my ECU Hilltop'd by post about 5 weeks ago, and noted early on that the bike seems to bog down around 4k, so a quick call to Geoff, and he said run it over to a BMW mech, and get him to test ride it.
So off to BMW and ask the Mech to test ride it, His comment after the ride was, he felt it was FLUFFY around 3k but over 5k the bike seemed to come alive. He also noted the headers seemed very BLUE (their Titanium) but the tech felt it was running hot low down. He also said that he could tell if a bike had been hilltop'd by riding it, but felt my bike is not right.
So I will admit to wondering if the ECU was actually Map'ed.
So I rang HT, their reply was not Problem run it down and they will stick it on the dyno, (No Charge). So its going to down south on my next day off.
Hilltop have been nothing but helpful with me.
I had my ECU Hilltop'd by post about 5 weeks ago, and noted early on that the bike seems to bog down around 4k, so a quick call to Geoff, and he said run it over to a BMW mech, and get him to test ride it.
So off to BMW and ask the Mech to test ride it, His comment after the ride was, he felt it was FLUFFY around 3k but over 5k the bike seemed to come alive. He also noted the headers seemed very BLUE (their Titanium) but the tech felt it was running hot low down. He also said that he could tell if a bike had been hilltop'd by riding it, but felt my bike is not right.
So I will admit to wondering if the ECU was actually Map'ed.
So I rang HT, their reply was not Problem run it down and they will stick it on the dyno, (No Charge). So its going to down south on my next day off.
Hilltop have been nothing but helpful with me.
It has occurred to me that unless all these bikes going over to Hilltop are brand new.
How do you know if a remap hasn't already been done on your engine. It may already be at it's prime, having been remapped already.
Some on here get their bikes remapped immediately after the first service at 600 miles. So any second hand bike could have been done already.
Now, before you go saying that the 'before' and 'after' charts would show the remapped figures, not necessarily.
Rolling Road technicians can manipulate 'before' graphs if they want to (playing them down to show a greater increase with the 'after' chart). I'm not suggesting that Hilltop do this, but it happens and more often than you think. Again, greed getting in the way of an honest service.
So you wouldn't always know, except by running time/measured-distance runs. To see what the difference was.
Just saying...
A very good point and one that had crossed my mind.... how would you know. I bought mine (2014 GSA) a year ago. I wonder if I contacted HT with the reg number, perhaps they could advise.
. Worth a punt.
A very good point and one that had crossed my mind.... how would you know. I bought mine (2014 GSA) a year ago. I wonder if I contacted HT with the reg number, perhaps they could advise.
It all depends how good they are at keeping records on file.
If they are not paying TAX and all your remaps are CASH deals, then it's unlikely they will keep detailed records on file. Inland Revenue like to hunt through records when investigating stuff for unpaid VAT, Corp Tax and Income Tax.
Back street businesses and cash deals are a dirty affair as you don't get a clear understanding on your contract of sale and services. So in a dispute, its all word of mouth, no receipt, no records, no proof money changed hands.
The transaction may be made good on a morally applied gentlemens agreement. Like a backstreet abortion or brain surgery haha... if they kill your bike, tuff shit, you knew the risks.
However, lets assume it's all above board with Hill Top. I assume you get a clear description of what service you get on their website, they'll be VAT registered with the amout of remaps they do, so you'll get a receipt. As everything is above board they'll keep records on file and will have Professional Indemnity and Public Liability Insurance.
Your leaving your motorcycle brain in their hands after all
Just to add one more point.
Does Hill Top store your original map file on their system, BEFORE they do any work to replace that file with their own work?
If your second hand bike is already remapped and you didn't know about it, Hill Top new map wont feel any different.
So you, quite rightly complain, and they offer to give you your money back.
But with a refund no way will they let you ride out of there with the new map still on your bike. It'll be reverted back to 'before'. But if this occurs weeks after the work, will they still have your original map still?
Very important this....
a) Do they reapply your previous map file? as they dilligently record every customers details and file it for ever?
b) Do they apply a generic standard map they have on file for that bike?
If it's B... You might just come away with a standard map and your bike will be slower than when you originally went in.
Does Hill Top store your original map file on their system, BEFORE they do any work to replace that file with their own work?
If your second hand bike is already remapped and you didn't know about it, Hill Top new map wont feel any different.
So you, quite rightly complain, and they offer to give you your money back.
But with a refund no way will they let you ride out of there with the new map still on your bike. It'll be reverted back to 'before'. But if this occurs weeks after the work, will they still have your original map still?
Very important this....
a) Do they reapply your previous map file? as they dilligently record every customers details and file it for ever?
b) Do they apply a generic standard map they have on file for that bike?
If it's B... You might just come away with a standard map and your bike will be slower than when you originally went in.
http://www.ukgser.com/forums/showth...cycles-Remap?p=4157971&viewfull=1#post4157971
Here it is, clear as day. Now, get on the phone and get your refund.
They store their new map in a different location in the ECU memory. They make the ECU load their map instead of the BMW installed mapping. The BMW maps are still there, just not being used.
Geoff does ask you to wait until the ECU completes all of its checks at power on before starting the engine. That ensures that the Hilltop maps are in play and not the BMW maps.
Theoretically then, if you switch and immediately thumb the starter you get the BM maps; you could fo that to see what differences there are.
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Geoff does ask you to wait until the ECU completes all of its checks at power on before starting the engine. That ensures that the Hilltop maps are in play and not the BMW maps.
Theoretically then, if you switch and immediately thumb the starter you get the BM maps; you could fo that to see what differences there are.
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Thats interesting, so could it be that some bike maps weren't switched across correctly? leaving their owners unimpressed.
What's the manual switch across proceedure. Thats interesting as well that owners can switch between maps if they want to.
This isn't about me getting/wanting a refund, as you know, because you obviously searched the old thread and I make it very clear, it's about people raving about Hilltop. I posted about my experience and you came back with, ask for your money back. I asked where it was stated this was his policy and despite asking you numerous times you can't come up with ANYTHING.
So either tell me where it is or stop being a Cnut
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