Anyone balanced their throttle?

[Craig]

Sometimes I suffer from a numb right hand whilst travelling. The mirror will vibrate on the right so I can't see clearly. Upon reading a previous thread the cause of this vibration may be an unbalanced throttle??

Anyone got any knowledge of how easy a job this is? Or should it go in to BMW?

The vibration is the only grumble I have about the GS (I've had 2) If only I can fix this!!!!!!!

Craig

 

[boxer]

Craig.

Correctly adjusted throttle bodies sure ain't going to do any harm.

Check out the thread started by inshed on 02/01/03 titled "vibration and abs warning light " for some links to detailed descriptions of the sync procedure.

Once you have some experience and have gained some confidence in you ability to perform the syn it is a fairly easy procedure. It does however require a certain patience and a lightness of touch - baby elephants in a rush shouldn't really attempt it.
Don't cut corners, make sure everything is as good as you feel you can get it. That means having your valves adjusted spot on, clean air filter, Twin max warmed up and with a new battery.

The Devil really is in the detail.

 

[Jimb]

Twinmax

Craig, get a Twinmax balancer, it takes 10 mins to balance the TB's on an oilhead, only adjust the right side, leave the left alone as it has the motronic sensor fitted to it.

Its a piece of cake.

 

[Malky]

Sometimes I suffer from a numb right hand whilst travelling. The mirror will vibrate on the right so I can't see clearly. Upon reading a previous thread the cause of this vibration may be an unbalanced throttle??

Anyone got any knowledge of how easy a job this is? Or should it go in to BMW?

The vibration is the only grumble I have about the GS (I've had 2) If only I can fix this!!!!!!!

Craig

doddle. Follow the link to the ibmwr.org doc. Very good source.
Last time I did the ballance I was not able to rattle the mirrors at any speed. And by any I mean ANY. Of course I found an abandoned air field.... blah blah... blah.....
Do not much with the LHS unless of course you need to. I have a 97 1100 and felt the need to. BUT BE CAREFUL, you really have to understand the ins and outs of it. I must have balanced 3 or 4 times before touching the LHS and the stops and Throttle Postion Sensor. I am well chuffed with the results but it is not for the faint hearted. My main reason for leaving alone was I did not understand 1 little detail in the Lentini doc on ibmwr.org site. Once I did there was no holding me back.
Certainly if you are still under warranty don't bother.

This may make sense later if not now BUT ---- Incidentally I helped a fellow GSer balance his 1150 recently. And the damn thing was not on the stops !!! It was actually balanced quite well on idle (if you can call it that) and on 3-4k revs. The bike only had a few 1000 on the clock but the dealer clearly had not done anything at the 600 mile service. Nope on idle the RHS was on the cable not the stop. The LHS was too but not to the same extent. COMPLETE MADNESS. Even the BMW manual makes it clear there should be slack on idle. So we had to mess with the stops on both sides as well as the bleed screws and cables.
A tip : if you have to muck with the stops. then simply read the TPS doc. Work out how to measure the TPS voltage. Set the bleed screw to Lentini's #turns 2 I think. You can then simply do the left stop by winding both stops up (both or it will run too badly) once you get to the 370-400mV just lock the LHS. Then you can get the RHS stop to balance on Twinmax. Trim if required with the RHS bleed valve. Then just balance the cables. Sounds like a lot but is really a complete doddle. However you will probably not have to do the stop madness coz I cannot believe that bikes are out there with no cable slack on idle.

Needless to say I'm told the bike runs better now.

 

[Malky]

I forgot to mention

BTW: make sure your TwinMax has small tubes that can be connected. Mine does and it ensures a good fit. I got from calamander. We wasted a lot of time trying to balance using another TwinMax that did not have these and basically did all we could do to ensure no air leaks but by comparing with my TwinMax proved that a fit was not happening and air was leaking. So make damn sure you know there is no air leaks.

BTW: do the value gaps 1st it will pay dividends.

 

[Craig]

Thanx for the replies to date. A fantastic source of information. I'll let you know how it goes.

Craig

 

[(RIP) Yosi]

Is a good idea to tighten the tubes with small cable ties to avoid leaks. Also, fit the restrictors included in the kit. make the whole operation smoother.

 

[needlongerlegs]

Where Do Yer Live ?

If your near to Felixstowe pop over and I'll apply the Twin Max its a ten min job on a hot bike.

As Mr Malcolm says :- do the value gaps 1st it will pay dividends.

G.....

 

[MikeO]

Re: Where Do Yer Live ?

do the value gaps 1st it will pay dividends.

...are those like value baps?

MikeO

 

[Craig]

Thanx for the offer of popping over to Felixstowe. I live in Bicester near Oxford, so that may be a good rideout. If I can't source a set of these Twinmax thingies I may take you up on that. As for seeing to the valves first. Do they live in the engine!!!

At the moment I am trying to source a set of TWINMAX thingies! My local dealer (Hughendon) hasn't heard of them so can't help. When I mentioned what I needed them for I was told "Could be any number of reasons why it vibrates" Technically I suppose this is true.

However I am wanting to pursue balancing the throttle with the Twinmax as there appears to be people in the know out there.

All the best Craig

 

[needlongerlegs]

Suck Meter v's Bap Clearance

http://www.calamander.co.uk/twinmax/twinmaxmk2.htm

Try the above received mine in a couple of days

Regards

Graham ......

MIKE FYI Just poping out to check my Bap Clearance .....It always comes down to who much bread u got.

H 40 Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh Quick Run.

 

[Malky]

Just out of interest do most balance the cables on 3-4,000 revs ? while on the centre stand ? Or does anyone do anything different ?

 

[boxer]

Just out of interest do most balance the cables on 3-4,000 revs ? while on the centre stand ? Or does anyone do anything different ?

Balance at 3,000 revs on centre stand, then out for a run with Twimmax on tank to see what it looks like in the real world.

Any adjustment here normally involves decreasing or increasing the 'weight' on the RH cable lock nut.

 

[Malky]

Balance at 3,000 revs on centre stand, then out for a run with Twimmax on tank to see what it looks like in the real world.

The idea being it changes under load ?
Do you find it varying in the 3-4,000rev region (on the centre stand I mean)?

 

[boxer]

The idea being it changes under load ?

Yes, I believe that's the theory. Could be a case of overkill, but I've got to say it doesn't sound unreasonable.

Do you find it varying in the 3-4,000rev region (on the centre stand I mean)?

If you mean do I find the sync as displayed on the TM varies as the rev raise and fall - then yes I do.
I've never seen the same reading throughout the rev-range. I've heard about people that can achieve this. Whilst it may be desirable my bike runs so well I can't really justify running the motor on it's c/stand for hours on end attempting a zero reading throughout the rev range when I doubt I'd see any improvement.
To be honest I've a feeling that the sensitivity of the TM is so great that it'd be practicably impossible anyway.

I choose to sync at 3,000 because that's where I had a surging problem develop.

FWIW and FYI. I wouldn't hesitate to balance the RH throttle stop screw these days. Over the miles surely this has got to move?

This is how I do a sync:

1. Back by-pass screws out ***EXACTLY*** the same - say 1.5 turns.

2. Balance @ idle using RH throttle stop.

3. Maybe fine tune @ idle using by-pass screws.

4. Balance @ 3000 revs.

5. Take bike out and make 'micro' adjustments to the weight on the RH cable locknut and by-pass screws. Both of which can be done from the comfort of the saddle.

 

[Malky]

If you mean do I find the sync as displayed on the TM varies as the rev raise and fall - then yes I do.
I've never seen the same reading throughout the rev-range. I've heard about people that can achieve this.

Yeah - I have on two occasions. I found the trick to be whack the throttle up and down a lot when engine is off. Having said that there is not much point. I now just get it very very close on max sensivity (TMax) at 3K 3.5K and 4K over 4K is a waste of time IMHO.
Afters some miles it will go aout a tad anyhow. As the whole thing creeps over time. I have found no percievable diff getting it say -ve by a tad at 3K and +ve by a tad at 4K compared to getting it bang on. As I said before bang on will only last so many hundred miles anyhow.

Whilst it may be desirable my bike runs so well I can't really justify running the motor on it's c/stand for hours on end attempting a zero reading throughout the rev range when I doubt I'd see any improvement.

YEAH

To be honest I've a feeling that the sensitivity of the TM is so great that it'd be practicably impossible anyway.

Yeah if a fly lands on the cable.... But what about 2 twin flys one on each cable

I choose to sync at 3,000 because that's where I had a surging problem develop.

Oh I see - never had surging. Did Twinmax fix it then ?.

FWIW and FYI. I wouldn't hesitate to balance the RH throttle stop screw these days. Over the miles surely this has got to move?

Yup
BTW : every tried 2 turns on the screws. I have done this lately as Lentini advise this and given is seems to be very wise in these matters.....

I set to 2, set idle (may have to turn RHS, if not balancing idle on stops) then set cable then tweak RHS screw coz getting the RH cable bang on is very hard.

 

[boxer]

Oh I see - never had surging. Did Twinmax fix it then ?.

I 0=0'ed it [was .341v and I adjusted it to .381v.
] and then reset sync etc - this reset included the first time I adjusted the RH throttle stop screw so it's not easy to say what actually did it. One things for sure though, I had it and got rid of it.


I set to1.5 for no real reason. As long as idle speed ok I don't think it important.
When I say ***EXACTLY*** 1.5, some people use zero [fully home] to ensure they are both exactly the same. Thing is, the engine runs very poorly and is quite off putting to run so I use 1.5. This gives good tick over. I use a piece of plastercine and apointer lined up with the screw driver slots to get 1.5 turns ***EXACTLY***.

 

[Malky]

Oh I see - never had surging. Did Twinmax fix it then ?.

I 0=0'ed it [was .341v and I adjusted it to .381v.
] and then reset sync etc - this reset included the first time I adjusted the RH throttle stop screw so it's not easy to say what actually did it. One things for sure though, I had it and got rid of it.


I set to1.5 for no real reason. As long as idle speed ok I don't think it important.

I would agree

When I say ***EXACTLY*** 1.5, some people use zero [fully home] to ensure they are both exactly the same. Thing is, the engine runs very poorly and is quite off putting to run so I use 1.5. This gives good tick over. I use a piece of plastercine and apointer lined up with the screw driver slots to get 1.5 turns ***EXACTLY***.

So maybe the 0=0 and balance did the trick then.
I did this at about 18k (July 02) and moved from 340mV to 391mV.
Then balanced - it did run better but then even a balance would have done that.
What did seem to change was the bike started to rev quicker. But then at 18k it was maybe just finished running in.