Are 1200 gs's designed to fail

  • Thread starter Thread starter bigal
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Im with Wilb, i reckon the problem with a 'fair' amount of the faults highlighted on here couldhave been caused by the (as i said earlier) 'Sloppy link'. You know, the one between the handlebars and seat. Either dont read the manual prior to use for operator faults, or have a little knowledge of how to fix/fit something and cause even more problems.

Some people have obviously had bad experiences and i feel for them, but without wishing to tar everyone with the same brush, as im sure Wilb had no intention of doing, it would interest me to know how many of the faults/problems occur on bikes that have had all manner of electrical wizardry, exhaust systems, any other bling fitted.

The same as DIY in the home, i have seen some terrible engineering DIY on bikes and lots of blank looks when you ask them how it affects other systems on their bikes. :nenau
 
There are clearly a few regularly occurring issues (fuel pump, oil leak, EWS warning) which are not bling related. What is not clear is how prevalent they are as the forum tends to be a naturally self selecting fault reporting tool.
 
Recurring faults

There are clearly a few regularly occurring issues (fuel pump, oil leak, EWS warning) which are not bling related. What is not clear is how prevalent they are as the forum tends to be a naturally self selecting fault reporting tool.
I think that you will find that most, if not all dealers, record these faults and notify BMW accordingly. (Certainly I know that 'my' dealer in Lyon does this.) Also, of course, the dealer will watch out for and anticipate many of these faults IF the bike is serviced at the correct intervals. I know that dealers do vary vastly and during my 30 years riding BMW's, (8 models) I have tried to build a relationship with a dealer - not always easy I know. One failed my R100RS -which had covered about 3000 miles because the rear srings had "collapsed" - they were 1/4" shorter than those in his spares rack. He went out of business in due course.
 
There are clearly a few regularly occurring issues (fuel pump, oil leak, EWS warning) which are not bling related. What is not clear is how prevalent they are as the forum tends to be a naturally self selecting fault reporting tool.

There's no denying this. I carry a spare fuel pump "relay" and a spare EWS antenna ring. The later after seeing what a show stopper this is on a trip to Morocco. I've used the fuel pump part on a friends bike when his failed.

I've had three GS (about 15,000 miles on each bike) - fourth on order, and have had no faults myself but am certainly not blind to the problems of others.
 
".....I've had three GS (about 15,000 miles on each bike) - fourth on order, and have had no faults myself but am certainly not blind to the problems of others..." and I suspect that they were bought from and serviced by (the same?) reputable BMW dealer?
 
".....I've had three GS (about 15,000 miles on each bike) - fourth on order, and have had no faults myself but am certainly not blind to the problems of others..." and I suspect that they were bought from and serviced by (the same?) reputable BMW dealer?


Yes Brian:

Like you were intimating, find a good dealer and stick with them. My local dealer is very good and is where I buy my bikes and have them serviced. Incidentally the best service experience I have ever had was from Klaus Meyer in Mannheim (Germany) - if anyone's service is due when in the area. :thumb2
.
 
Yes Brian:

Like you were intimating, find a good dealer and stick with them. My local dealer is very good and is where I buy my bikes and have them serviced. Incidentally the best service experience I have ever had was from Klaus Meyer in Mannheim (Germany) - if anyone's service is due when in the area. :thumb2
.

Isnt this a contradiction? stick by your dealer... but if you happen to be in Mannheim !!!

:rob
 
I agree entirely about having a good dealer relationship. I think I do (Steve - don't answer that :D). But certain things they can't do anything about until they appear (such as gearbox oil seals).

What I meant by a "self selecting fault reporting tool" was that the site identifies common faults but does not identify how many bikes actually suffer from them because people tend to only comment when there is a problem.
 
Im with Wilb, i reckon the problem with a 'fair' amount of the faults highlighted on here couldhave been caused by the (as i said earlier) 'Sloppy link'. You know, the one between the handlebars and seat. Either dont read the manual prior to use for operator faults, or have a little knowledge of how to fix/fit something and cause even more problems.

Some people have obviously had bad experiences and i feel for them, but without wishing to tar everyone with the same brush, as im sure Wilb had no intention of doing, it would interest me to know how many of the faults/problems occur on bikes that have had all manner of electrical wizardry, exhaust systems, any other bling fitted.

The same as DIY in the home, i have seen some terrible engineering DIY on bikes and lots of blank looks when you ask them how it affects other systems on their bikes. :nenau

Russ I don't see the logic of this. :( The common faults are very well-documented and unrelated to what you call "the sloppy link" or bling. For instance, have you examples of where fuel pump controllers, EWS failures or gear selection indicator problems are the result of rider negligence or bling? In my view the sloppy link in these common cases is poor engineering design and poor quality control by BMW. For example in a separate thread on here on the changes to the 2008 GS there are some excellent photos which show how fundamentally they have redesigned the fuel pump controller and its location yet they still refuse to acknowledge to many of us that it is problematic on the pre 2008 model. The reason those of us who have suffered get angry about it is this reluctance of BMW to sort these things properly these days. What is more puzzling is the variability of response - some people get good backup, some get none. I've had very good warranty experiences with BMW in the past, appalling experiences with these common problems in the past year and I'm out of pocket as a result. :spitfire
 
Nick,
I didnt mean to belittle your or anyone elses problems. Apologies if it came over that way to you. I did say a "fair amount of the faults highlighted on here could have been caused" at the top of my post trying to be careful "not to tar everyone with the same brush".

I agree there could of been faults with manufacturers design and QC, but for me on a 07 these seem to have gone (hopefully). So maybe their system does work and others pain has been my gain. This is obviously no consolation for those who are/were having problems.

I was just trying to add balance to the initial thread topic that i have had no problems, at the same time adding that 'some' people that have 'some' of the type of problems that get highlighted on this site do not do much to help themselves either by changing the spec themselves or getting supposed experts to do it for them without any or very little knowledge of the bike systems and how they interact. With increasingly complicated technology the old school fiddling in the garage, 'just wiring this GPS/comms up to the lighting loom with an earth back to battery', could affect other systems maybe even the gear indicator display.

With regards to the 3 faults you mentioned, i have no examples, but, fuel pump controller aside, in the same vein can you say that all the faults on here are not attributed to owner/non expert maintenance. Im sure you could quote some and i could give some where they are.

I like to see faults reported on here and applaud others efforts in getting things sorted out by BMW. Like i said just a little balance and a thought that i believe (think) that BMW are not to blame for all faults.
Regards,
 
Bike love

Nick,
I didnt mean to belittle your or anyone elses problems. Apologies if it came over that way to you. I did say a "fair amount of the faults highlighted on here could have been caused" at the top of my post trying to be careful "not to tar everyone with the same brush".............

Thanks for this Russ and no your post didn't appear to me to be belittling but I was puzzled by the general thrust of some of the contributions (yours amongst them) to this thread. Let me explain. :rob


Returning to the original title of this long-running thread, the answer "no" was given a long time ago and seems to have been tacitly accepted by most - yet the thread has continued. For me it has given a very interesting insight into how owners relate to their bikes. Ignoring some of the one line contributions which leave me wondering why they bother, my impression is of three broad groups/opinions. I am talking here of this thread and not of others which I think have "bled" into this one.

Group A contributors consists of the people who have had the well-documented common problems which I won't repeat. Their relationship with their bikes seems contradictory. On one hand they hate its unreliability but continue to keep it and ride it because it IS a brilliant ride. Even Marcus after his first unhappy experience went out and bought another one! :blast This group must be crackers because they whinge like hell then scratch their heads over the alternatives to persevering with the thing. I am in this group and I accept I am acting emotionally and irrationally in ignoring the facts and not trading the thing in for something marginally more reliable like a Hongdou.

There's group B who have had no problems with their bikes, offer "tea and sympathy" to Group A and move on. They are clearly delighted, say so and buzz off for another ride, untroubled by the "what might happen next" and "how much is my next ride going to cost" thoughts which afflict group A.:mmmm

Then there's group C. Now this group gives most scope for analysing relationships and feelings towards a bike. They have had positive experiences too but try to explain Group A's reactions in a number of ways. These explanations for Group A's experience cover inter alia - rider stupidity, ignorance of manuals, iffy dealer support, fitting too many accessories and dodgy DIY. Assessing each of these explanations against my own experience leaves me with a big question. I hope I can be forgiven for assuming that having ridden bikes for 40 years, attained advanced qualifications and actually survived for that length of time with all my limbs intact I am entitled to discount rider stupidity. I also read manuals, BMW's own, Haynes and if one were available I would get a Clymer. I am very happy with my dealer. The only accessories fitted to my bike are a (dealer fitted) second socket and a hugger and I haven't time to do any DIY. So the question for my personal situation is why do members of Group C appear to find it difficult to accept that the weight of the evidence about the common problems I and others have experienced lead inexorably to the conclusion that the GS is a flawed genius? Brilliant to ride but too many have suffered with mechanical and electrical faults that should not be so prevalent in a so-called premier marque? It offers no comfort to me that VFR or other rider forums have similar threads. I don't have their bikes because I paid a premium to have something that was well-designed and reliable.

The answer to me is that riders strike up a very emotional attachment to their chosen steed (e.g. Group A) and it is possible that criticism of the bike creates in some people in Group C a sense of insecurity or a challenge to their decision to own it? From some of the posts I sometimes get the impression that there'd be less of a reaction if someone called their wife or girlfriend a slag. :hide

To me the central point is this. We are (nearly) all owners of this bike. Criticism of it and BMW does not diminish anybody's personal decision to own it. If the results of the criticisms of Group A is to improve the bike and the way BMW address their customer responsibilities then are we not all winners? So why do contributors not accept at face value the weight of the actual evidence and work together on BMW to address it without calling into question the intelligence, experience, capability or motives of the GS/BMW critics?

Jeez that was difficult. Has anyone got any Anadin?:gringo
 
".....I accept I am acting emotionally and irrationally..." How many of us 100,000 owners of the 1200GS bought our bikes for any logical reason, except me?
 
Thanks for this Russ and no your post didn't appear to me to be belittling but I was puzzled by the general thrust of some of the contributions (yours amongst them) to this thread. Let me explain. :rob


Returning to the original title of this long-running thread, the answer "no" was given a long time ago and seems to have been tacitly accepted by most - yet the thread has continued. For me it has given a very interesting insight into how owners relate to their bikes. Ignoring some of the one line contributions which leave me wondering why they bother, my impression is of three broad groups/opinions. I am talking here of this thread and not of others which I think have "bled" into this one.

Group A contributors consists of the people who have had the well-documented common problems which I won't repeat. Their relationship with their bikes seems contradictory. On one hand they hate its unreliability but continue to keep it and ride it because it IS a brilliant ride. Even Marcus after his first unhappy experience went out and bought another one! :blast This group must be crackers because they whinge like hell then scratch their heads over the alternatives to persevering with the thing. I am in this group and I accept I am acting emotionally and irrationally in ignoring the facts and not trading the thing in for something marginally more reliable like a Hongdou.

There's group B who have had no problems with their bikes, offer "tea and sympathy" to Group A and move on. They are clearly delighted, say so and buzz off for another ride, untroubled by the "what might happen next" and "how much is my next ride going to cost" thoughts which afflict group A.:mmmm

Then there's group C. Now this group gives most scope for analysing relationships and feelings towards a bike. They have had positive experiences too but try to explain Group A's reactions in a number of ways. These explanations for Group A's experience cover inter alia - rider stupidity, ignorance of manuals, iffy dealer support, fitting too many accessories and dodgy DIY. Assessing each of these explanations against my own experience leaves me with a big question. I hope I can be forgiven for assuming that having ridden bikes for 40 years, attained advanced qualifications and actually survived for that length of time with all my limbs intact I am entitled to discount rider stupidity. I also read manuals, BMW's own, Haynes and if one were available I would get a Clymer. I am very happy with my dealer. The only accessories fitted to my bike are a (dealer fitted) second socket and a hugger and I haven't time to do any DIY. So the question for my personal situation is why do members of Group C appear to find it difficult to accept that the weight of the evidence about the common problems I and others have experienced lead inexorably to the conclusion that the GS is a flawed genius? Brilliant to ride but too many have suffered with mechanical and electrical faults that should not be so prevalent in a so-called premier marque? It offers no comfort to me that VFR or other rider forums have similar threads. I don't have their bikes because I paid a premium to have something that was well-designed and reliable.

The answer to me is that riders strike up a very emotional attachment to their chosen steed (e.g. Group A) and it is possible that criticism of the bike creates in some people in Group C a sense of insecurity or a challenge to their decision to own it? From some of the posts I sometimes get the impression that there'd be less of a reaction if someone called their wife or girlfriend a slag. :hide

To me the central point is this. We are (nearly) all owners of this bike. Criticism of it and BMW does not diminish anybody's personal decision to own it. If the results of the criticisms of Group A is to improve the bike and the way BMW address their customer responsibilities then are we not all winners? So why do contributors not accept at face value the weight of the actual evidence and work together on BMW to address it without calling into question the intelligence, experience, capability or motives of the GS/BMW critics?

Jeez that was difficult. Has anyone got any Anadin?:gringo

1.) JEEZ IT'S ONLY A MOTORCYCLE! :D

and

2.) NO, IT IS NOT DESIGNED TO FAIL BUT THEY SOMETIMES THEY DO :(
 
From nick boxer:

So why do contributors not accept at face value the weight of the actual evidence and work together on BMW to address it without calling into question the intelligence, experience, capability or motives of the GS/BMW critics?

So:

I've personally not had a faulty fuel pump controller or any of the common faults in three GS's and 45,000 miles of use. I have no axe to grind.

I've been with others who've had problems. I've been able to help with their bikes as I carry spares (bit of insurance when going to out of the way places).

I've seen riders do stupid things because they don't understand their bikes.

In the interests of working together, what exactly do you want me to complain about and to whom. :nenau

(Hope this doesn't sound too supercillious);)
 
Thread started last July!

Why don't we "wrap this up' now? After all the model is now out of date!
 
Nightmares

Oh yes, please can we wrap this up now?

I`m having nightmares that my 26,000 miles GS-A, which is the finest motorcycles I have ever owned and never ceases to make me smile, is actually no damned good and will implode at any time:eek:

Could a kindly moderator please put me and the 95% of happy 1200 owners out of our misery before we all go and buy used 1150`s because after all, they were much better weren`t they:augie:augie
 


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