Aspirational brands, go to Hun or Rom and all the 20/30 age group want German or Range Rover
Are the Chinese going to take over the bike market ?
- Thread starter leadfarmer
- Start date
A BMW clone 70bhp, 250cc and 180Kgish? Wow. The large 700cc looks so BMCheck out thr Benda hybrid
If we didn’t have to move to electric, I’d agree with you- European brands have heritage and expertise in petrol and diesel cars.
But with electric, there’s no differentiator. They are just iPads on wheels. The biggest announcement about the upcoming electric Porsche Cayenne is that it has in-car gaming, but despite that Porsche's profits are down 90%, due to spaffing billions on EV R&D while their Chinese market collapsed because the tech in the European EV’s is seen as archaic in China.
And pretty much all EV’s will be landfill at 10 years old, so why not get a cheaper one that has better tech?
I know a couple of people back in Italy that were in the "has to be a BMW mate" camp.
Met them after a few years, after they had kids, bigger place and bigger mortgage, decided to get back into biking to do something at weekends, and all they could do sensibly (if you really want a new bike) was Chinese adventure bikes. Not that there is an issue with that.
Keep in mind we are talking drastically lower average salaries than here.
That's the entry point they have, and are smartly using.
We'll see what happens.
I personally do not care much. I have zero budget (brassic) and stick to my vehicles for a decade or two usually
I believe those Chinese made Benellis are popular in Italy.
A mate bought one of the 502 adv things. I was surprised by the weight of the fucking thing. Nearly ruptured my spleen lifting it off the side stand.
Every other bike.
Regarding size/weight, yes, I agree.
I like smaller bikes (I have one and it's super fun) but do not understand having a GS Adventure-sized bike with a small wheezing engine*.
I'd rather have something nimble.
But also, from what I have noticed while I am there each time, a lot of the owners are first time bikers, that start in their 30ies or 40ies and want to have the bike adventure either on a budget or is their first bike.
Last one I saw was a guy this summer on the Sommelier. We met at the little shack where you pay at the entry point. He was a bit worried and we chatted for a bit. Then saw him (and his wife/gf on the back) again as I was descending and they were on their way up.
To his credit, he went all the way to the top with his pillion perched at the back.
*and I ride an old 1200 Adv that is not exactly a rocket
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Got to agree with this^^^^^^^^^^. These manufacturers are disrupting the European mkt. They are the reason Honda have priced the SP Hornet and GB350 where they are. Honda were forced to do that by brands like these and the India manufacturers.These Chinese bods strike me as clever people. I wonder if they're clever enough to make a 500cc V4 two stroke, that can fly through all of the Euro' emission/noise crap, and come in at less than (say) £15K?
Build that and we would soon see how 'dead' the motorcycle industry is.
Form an orderly queue Gents -
I think some brands are beyond Wacky, Benda ( the boxer) for example and adding Ai to a scooter is just plain daft. But those 500/600 Honda fours will have oldie sports bike riders trading down from their fireblades and S1000rr ‘ and thats a fair sized market! Probably bigger than the “yoof” mkt
maybe bigger than the youth market in the UK but we are a small proportion of the European market. Go to warmer climes and you will see loads of younger people riding bikes of all sizes. Italy has 85% of our population but three times more new bike sales than us. France has a similar population but twice our new bike sales. Spain, 70% of our population but over twice our new bike sales.
Ride mag rate the new CF Moto 800 MT-X as better than the KTM 790 from where its power plant comes .
And the Voge DS900X is second best value new bike on sale behind the Hornet 1000
I bought one and ran it for nine months and took it to Brittany.
Only sold it as found the seat a tad low for my nerve problems and my Vstrom 1050 is roomier.
But the Voge was faultless.
Many on here such as Jetjock proclaimed depreciation would be through the roof.
Guess what -it wasn’t ! Sold it for the asking price on the first day of sale for £5900.
I paid £7800 for it OTR so lost £1900 in nine months , which ain’t horrendous.
People on here have traded ‘up’ from a 1300GS to a 1300GSA and lost £8000 in as many months !
Thats more than the Voge cost.
Bikes such as the DS900X are huge sellers in Europe and slowly but surely the blinkered UK massive are catching on as Moto GB are selling out of every new shipment.
But the ignorant comments will continue for some time , especially on here where the GS mob look down on ‘chinese shite’ which is kind of ironic seeing as half their bike’s components have MADE IN CHINA stamped on them
And the Voge DS900X is second best value new bike on sale behind the Hornet 1000
I bought one and ran it for nine months and took it to Brittany.
Only sold it as found the seat a tad low for my nerve problems and my Vstrom 1050 is roomier.
But the Voge was faultless.
Many on here such as Jetjock proclaimed depreciation would be through the roof.
Guess what -it wasn’t ! Sold it for the asking price on the first day of sale for £5900.
I paid £7800 for it OTR so lost £1900 in nine months , which ain’t horrendous.
People on here have traded ‘up’ from a 1300GS to a 1300GSA and lost £8000 in as many months !
Thats more than the Voge cost.
Bikes such as the DS900X are huge sellers in Europe and slowly but surely the blinkered UK massive are catching on as Moto GB are selling out of every new shipment.
But the ignorant comments will continue for some time , especially on here where the GS mob look down on ‘chinese shite’ which is kind of ironic seeing as half their bike’s components have MADE IN CHINA stamped on them
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Name one Chinese bike that has style, class or character. They specialise in doing their own versions of hum drum bikes they manufacture for European manufacturers. I haven't seen hardly any original development on a Chinese bike so there must be little r&d going on. Many of their engines are developments of long in the tooth Japanese original designs. They may build the engines the KTMs and BMWs but they didn't develop them
How about this one Mille https://www.revzilla.com/common-tre...r-from-china-takes-aim-at-the-honda-gold-wing
https://www.revzilla.com/common-tre...r-from-china-takes-aim-at-the-honda-gold-wing
They will only take over the bike market if we buy them - if bikers were patriotic they would not buy stuff from China and feed their economy and military.
Chasing the lowest price has consequences.
Chasing the lowest price has consequences.
So are you German ?
NoSo are you German ?
I have to agree with Arsey. When the Japanese came over, the British bike industry died. Triumph R&D department decided to over bore a 650 to a 750 and make something unreliable. Patriotism didn’t do much then. Look in the super markets, people will buy the cheapest food, because it is cheap.
And if you remember, when triumph relaunched, it is alleged that they copied the GPZ 900 I think it was and just changed the body to make different styles. Then, later on, guitar a few years later, they really started developing and competing.
The Chinese are doing the same, they copy, then as they get established, and many company’s will go under, but the like of Cf Moto and Voge may well survive and they WILL get into design and development. They may sub it out to someone from Europe. Lots of companies do that. In fact, when I was in electronics, I think we subbed the case designs out to Porsche.
Heritage May interest a 30 or 40 year old who has cash to burn, but means fxxx all to most people. The end price is what matters.
The Chinese were making crap with no spares backup. That is all changing now. The west moved over there 25 years ago and started building with western expertise. The Chinese listened and learnt and we are now seeing the results. In the next 5 years, they will be shipping over bikes to as good a standard as anything made in Europe.
Now, if only they did shaft drive, although, I don’t think I will be changing my GS for a few years.
You are free to disagree with me….. but you are wrong.
And if you remember, when triumph relaunched, it is alleged that they copied the GPZ 900 I think it was and just changed the body to make different styles. Then, later on, guitar a few years later, they really started developing and competing.
The Chinese are doing the same, they copy, then as they get established, and many company’s will go under, but the like of Cf Moto and Voge may well survive and they WILL get into design and development. They may sub it out to someone from Europe. Lots of companies do that. In fact, when I was in electronics, I think we subbed the case designs out to Porsche.
Heritage May interest a 30 or 40 year old who has cash to burn, but means fxxx all to most people. The end price is what matters.
The Chinese were making crap with no spares backup. That is all changing now. The west moved over there 25 years ago and started building with western expertise. The Chinese listened and learnt and we are now seeing the results. In the next 5 years, they will be shipping over bikes to as good a standard as anything made in Europe.
Now, if only they did shaft drive, although, I don’t think I will be changing my GS for a few years.
You are free to disagree with me….. but you are wrong.
Ignoring the topic of funding Chinese companies, or not, for a second… I’ve heard the patriotism line a long time ago, when FIAT had to be propped up (one of the many times).
Good luck with that
Good luck with that
I took my Ktm 1290 Superduke (don’t laugh) for its service to an ironically named motogb, the place was stacked with bikes new and used. Other than the new KTM’S most of the new stuff was Chinese bikes that I’ve never heard of, so I had a good mooch around and for me the realisation that the Chinese mid range bikes looked as good if not better than there Japanese and European rivals was a shock, then when you look at the price difference, well, we’ve seen the results before.
So what's patriotic about riding a GS ?
By not giving my money to the World's largest and growing military/industrial country, who amongst other things is not averse to spying on us to gain even more advantage. Much better to give it our close European friends.
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