Are wc really better than my TC ?

[team duvet]

90th

Well just had to join in.......1st MOT today on the TC 90th Anni.

Past year looked at WC gone away, test rode WC, gone away. Just get back on the 90th TC and think a lot of dosh to swop on something that I still love, get on with etc.

Perfect solution would be to keep the 90th and have a WC..but eh £££££

Interesting thread so far........

TD

 

[Schtum]

For several generations of boxer, the criteria which BMW gave to Getrag who manufacture BMW gearboxes was that the selection of 1st gear should be relatively silent, i.e. in comparison with the clunk which is standard with WC's and most Japanese bikes. Getrag achieved this by engineering a fast spin-down time into the gearbox shafts. They did this by using sealed bearings which create extra drag. Of course they also cause the shaft to spin-down faster in between gearchanges on the move. Hence the notorious *clunk* when changing gear.

 

[Frankh]

I always thought it was down to a dry clutch on the old boxers and the wet clutch on the wc?

 

[steveC]

I have experience of both and these are my views. I have had numerous BMW's yes too many, the reason being age.

First off, I bought a TE, Gs new. Certain aspects were brilliant, acceleration, comfort, mpg, integration of the GPS with the controller. Initially the suspension was fine, yes only average. After 3000 miles it was doing my head in, It developed over a thousand miles and I just lost my confidence. No matter what I did improved it or got it back to what it was originally. The noise bouncing back off the screen was on the high side and that I found irritating.

Corrosion, well having had so many BMW's it was well protected and lived in a garage. I think I was one of the lucky ones with the quality.

I sold it and went back to a R1200r TC Classic, I have had 3 twin cams, 2 GS and a R.

I got a model with no abs, bog standard suspension. I can maintain it myself and when the timing is right it will receive some decent suspension. But the standard suspension was definitely better than the LC.( well the one I had )

From my perspective the twin cam models, in whatever frame are a decent bike. It was good enough for me and I returned to that model.

Is the LC better than the TC ? if you get two bikes with the same build quality the LC is the better bike, if you forget the purchase price.

From my view of ownership the LC is an expensive toy to run. Depreciation and running costs are high. With regard to the TC the servicing can be done by myself and the major part of its depreciation has taken place.

So your question was "what are your thoughts", those were mine. Don't let people make up your mind. Take their comments, sift through them and apply your own standards.

 

[Blackal]

I own a TC but have done about 600 miles on a hired WC. In all honesty the WC is a 'better' bike in terms of performance and handling. It has the perception of being lighter, even though it's heavier. The TC has more character though, especially the engine, and I haven't felt a burning desire to upgrade.

I'm not sure what you are trying to say there......

The WC is a better-performing bike - full stop.

Al (10yrs of running a SC and a TC)

 

[Glen]

I've previously owned 3 oil cooled GS's and between those three bikes I went though-
Five final drive units,
four fuel strip,
three front engine covers, (due to corrosion)
one drive axel,
Plus lots of recall items. My combined mileage on the three bikes was only 35000.

I'm on my second WC bike, the first one covering 19000 and my present one with
12500 and I've not had any problems with the WC bikes what so ever.
In my experience the WC this a much better bike in every way.

 

[mrtee43]

1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10.

The OP did not ask me to give my opinion about every bike on the planet. I was asked about WC BMs cf the TC. I own a TCRT. (How remiss of me not to say that.) Anyhow, having ridden the WCRT, I could not be doing with that massive klunk when engaging first gear. My TC does not do that nor , I imagine, does the OP's.

Now toddle off and and find another non existent argument to engage in.

Checkmate !

 

[J biker]

Yes.

More power. Better handling. Less agricultural.

...sort of depends if you like living in the past and kidding yourself or not.

 

[Scotriders]

I've done 77,500 miles on my 2010 TC GSA and have absolutely hated when its been in for service or warranty work over the last couple of years as they keep giving me a WC GS as a loaner and I can't stand them.

Plasticy, noisy, twitchy and harsh are probably the most common words I use to describe it every time I hand it back.

But it does make me appreciate my own bike even more when I get back on it, like putting on your old comfy slippers.

My bike looks rough as hell, got more rust than paint on the rear sub frame, paint on the wheels is rough and matt (changed under warranty but new ones have gone the same way) engine paint is peeling off all over, every other bolt I try to remove is seized and every other one of those tends to sheer off, on my third set of clutch plates, burns half a litre of oil ever 5,000 miles (some of that may get lost from the joints on the oil cooler pipes) front brake lever can be squeezed back to the bar well after the brake has stopped the bike and it's not as pretty as the WC's.

But when I do finally kill this one I will be looking for a low mileage TC to take its place not a WC.

Just my opinion.

 

[Engineer]

I always thought it was down to a dry clutch on the old boxers and the wet clutch on the wc?

You are correct, before the LC they all used a single plate dry clutch like a car - this had the problem of sometimes not allowing selection of 1st gear as the gear box was stationary when the clutch lever was pulled in - releasing the clutch slightly to add some drag and spin the box then allowed 1st to be selected. The LC wet clutch always has some drag even with the lever pulled back to the Barr which lets 1st gear select more easily but gives that typical wet clutch clunk.

 

[JohnnyBoxer]

Subjective and depends who you ask, take a long test ride and decide for yourself.

The correct answer

 

[JohnnyBoxer]

Yes the WC may be faster , it has more toys and if you want a bike with harsher suspension and sketchier build quality buy one.

Unlike most on here I didn't go from one bike to the other and I was actually running the 2014 GSA WC and the 2011 GSA TC together for well over a year, I admit my TC had uprated non ESA suspension but handling wise it would run rings around the WC on poorly surfaced roads .

Despite a number of ESA ECU updates the WC's handling has only ever been happy on really smooth tarmac , it always feels harsh and unsettled and even if it had an extra 50 bhp I doubt it be any quicker on the roads around here and in the Borders.

Yes the WC is faster when blasting down an Autobahn and can get up to 80 or so a little bit faster , however, in the UK where I would rather travel at sensible speeds with a bit of comfort the TC totally outclassed it.

I was persuaded by my wife to sell one of them and the only reason I kept the WC was because unlike those on here who never actually own their bikes (PCP) I paid cash for mine and the hit I would have taken by getting rid of the WC was just too much.

To sum it up when I had both bikes I did more miles on the TC and it was always the bike of choice when I was going out .

Initially in 2015 I was going to use the TC for the first trip to the Alps but changed my mind and took the WC to see if it would break (give it its dues it didn't) but after 3 Alpine trips in 2 years on roads I know very well I would still maintain that the TC would keep up a higher average speed .

I reckon an ideal WC would be a basic GSA model without ESA (but money spent on Maxton or similar shocks) and a few but definitely not all the toys.

I will keep my WC until it is 3 years old and the extra years free warranty given to me by BMW because of its reliability issues runs out and then if I do get a new one it will NOT have ESA.

Also my TC had a much nicer gearbox than the one on my WC that has also had a number of ECU updates to get it and the shift pro working correctly

So you sold a bike you preferred in all instances, except outright speed on a pool table smooth road and kept a bike that you didn't like too much and had given you more grief and angst

Sometimes it is hard to understand people ?

 

[Decompressing]

So you sold a bike you preferred in all instances, except outright speed on a pool table smooth road and kept a bike that you didn't like too much and had given you more grief and angst

Sometimes it is hard to understand people ?

Well, in all fairness he does say his wife wanted one of the bikes to go and he made the decision on which one based on the financial hit he'd take if he sold the WC....just saying!

 

[EVskiy]

Yes. Without question. I've had a few twin cams and am waiting for my 4th lc powered GS, and cannot bloody wait.

4th??????????

 

[Nutty]

I've previously owned 3 oil cooled GS's and between those three bikes I went though-
Five final drive units,
four fuel strip,
three front engine covers, (due to corrosion)
one drive axel,
Plus lots of recall items. My combined mileage on the three bikes was only 35000.

I'm on my second WC bike, the first one covering 19000 and my present one with
12500 and I've not had any problems with the WC bikes what so ever.
In my experience the WC this a much better bike in every way.

And there we have it.

 

[Nutty]

4th??????????

2 GS's and a GSA, with another GSA on the way.

 

[JohnnyBoxer]

Well, in all fairness he does say his wife wanted one of the bikes to go and he made the decision on which one based on the financial hit he'd take if he sold the WC....just saying!

I think I'd thought harder before I bought a WC, in that case

In 2008, I bought one of the new variant MU 1200GSA's with ESA and all the toys

I didn't gel with it, somehow...................it was a competent bike, with loads of gadgets - but it was a bit soul less and nowt went wrong with it - but I sold it

Luckily I'd kept my 1150 GSA,owned from new........... instead of chopping it in and after a 6 month hiatus, I got it back out of the garage and loved being back on it, so much so ............I bought another to keep it company

Different bikes suit different blokes, ride and buy what you enjoy

 

[bod]

I do prefer the WC to the TC, but I didn't feel the same joy I did going from a 55 plate single cam to the TC.

To me the WC just feels more polished and reliable than the old model.
It turns over faster, seat is better, fuel gauge works, screen is better, power is greater & the flappy exhaust thing doesn't stick.

The engine looks tidier, as does the top box carrier that doesn't need a mounting bracket. and the top box swallows any helmet up with ease.

The switch gear is shite & I will be having a word before the warranty runs out next month. I will also be giving it a good going over for any signs of corrosion, but I know I will not find anything.

Funny thing is when I traded in the TC for the WC, I rode away really regretting my decision - But 10 days later when I called back to pick up some bits, I saw my old bike up for sale and felt nothing for it.

Part company whilst you still fancy them is my motto .... and never look back!

 

[tanneman]

What do like about the LC? - Everything.

What would you change on the LC? - The only 2 things I would do to the LC is some decent suspension and proper heated grips, mine is a 14 plate but the 15 plate onward has heated grips that works in the cold at 70 mph. Apart from Hilltop and exhaust that many prefer. Both my GSA's had bar risers fitted which made it so much more comfortable.

And the previous GSA? - My Hexhead GSA was a really good bike. It could do with more power and being smoother. Lights was not the best hence I fitted spotlights

Would I have it back? - Don't know. Probably not because I enjoy the extra hooliganism you can extract from the LC.

What do I miss from the hexhead? - The massive screen provided good wind protection and you could hide behind in the rain. It is easier to clean. The ESA suspension is better suited to 2 up and loaded. It feels like that to me. And on the rear carrier rack you could strap down a 90l Ortlieb bag no problem. The LC has a smaller rack. The range is bit better on the Hexhead.

Is the LC a better bike? - That is subjective to who owns and buys one. I still do look at the Hexheads in the dealership. It is cheaper to own and won't loose too much value in the coming years. So financially it is a better buy. It may be more reliable for anybody considering touring to the back and beyond because of the air cooled engine. The LC has many improvements that I would say makes the riding experience more enjoyable and reduces the work load. Like the easier to manage integrated NAV system, cruise control, narrower seat at the front to get the legs on floor easier, LCD display is on par for ease of use as the Hexhead. Less vibration is a huge plus for me. Riding position is similar and comfort wise they are the same to me.

What issues did you had on the Hexhead? - The fuel strip, had a fair few of them fitted. 2011 bikes onward had a float so no more fuel strip problems. Clutch slipped at 16K but that was taken care of by BMW.

And the LC? - When I collected the dealer demo the final drive had corrosion on the hollow shaft. The replacement was not a good fit and made some funny noises. By 5K miles it had 2 final drives replaced and all is good and I have no sleepless nights. The fog lights kept on failing, eventually the harness was changed. I spotted some corrosion on the subframe due to my oversight in applying the anti corrosion wonder fluid but again BMW stepped in and done it under warranty.

It seems you had more issues with the LC than the Hexhead? - Yes it does. The only serious issue was the funny final drive replacement. I only mentioned it and the dealership had a good look at it twice. First time they thought it might be the suspension but subsequent investigation revealed and out of spec final drive replacement. The fog light harness is not the best and it is known the wire breaks behind the pins in the connector.

Which bike would you recommend, Hexhead or LC? - It depends on budget. If you can afford the new LC then go for it. It is a continent crosser only equaled by the Hexhead. No more fannying with gloved fingers on the nav with the wheel thingy. There are other machines that does the same job but the GSA is my choice of transport. It suits me and carries the missus in comfort with all the kit needed for a 2 weeks camping. If money is a bit tighter then the late model TC is a good bet financially.

 

[sven]

I never really liked my 2009 GS MU as I found it dull after three years on K1200S, even though it was more comfortable two-up. It was perfectly reliable until about 12k miles when the clutch started slipping I test rode a TC back-to-back and liked the slightly better roll-on performance and gear change, but not enough to change.

What I did like was the RT TC, which felt much quicker than my GS thanks to the more aerodynamic fairing and it was brilliant two-up fully loaded.

However, I loved the performance of the GS LC when it game out and nearly bought an RT LC, but went for the GS LC as I'm still the right side of 50

I've loved the bike and it's been totally reliable and better than my old GS in every way (except the heated grips) BUT the dreaded corrosion appeared, despite it barely being ridden in winter, so it was fitted with a new engine in April after the 12k service.....which is now showing the dreaded white spots again on the left side of the block next to the cylinder head

I've kind of fallen out of love with it at the moment and have barely ridden it in recent weeks. Maybe it's time for a complete change from BMW's?