Audio Diagnostic Please. It doesn't sound right and has no drive...

[Lawrence_NZ]

Lawrence, I have cross referenced all numbers on the MaxBMW Fiche site between ‘05 and ‘08 bikes and all the part numbers match (as expected). I’ve found the used clutch pushrod with felt and put it in the box of parts.

The only issue now is as you are not a subscriber I can’t private message you to sort payment and posting, and I don’t want to plaster my email address and bank details over a public internet forum.

I will try and get shipping estimates to NZ this week.

The only items you ought to try and purchase from BMW assuming you have an agent where you are in NZ are the six “Collar Screw” clutch mounting screws 21 21 7 684 771 there are used bolts in the kit but BMW advise to replace them after each use. If it’s a drame for you, I can probably get some from my BMW agent here in UK and put them in the box.

I lived for a while in Perth, WA which only had the one BMW dealer in 100,000 square miles so I have some sympathy for getting hold of stuff down under.

Subscribed now so that should solve that one. My local BMW place will be able to get me the bolts I'm sure. I've spotted a few rusty ones in my spanner wielding so far so might get a bunch. Especially rusted were the luggage frame bolts but these looked to be nearer wood screw than stainless I might leave the side panniers off as I've never used them anyway.

I didn't manage to get the wiring out but that will be my evenings this week.

Thanks for all the help and suggestions all. Might get this thing back on the road in time for Winter!

 

[Lawrence_NZ]

So I have got the top clutch cover off and the starter motor out and everything looks normal to my eye. No visible chips of metal as far as I can see but still the gearbox to get off.

 

[DrFarkoff]

So I have got the top clutch cover off and the starter motor out and everything looks normal to my eye. No visible chips of metal as far as I can see but still the gearbox to get off.

Don't forget about the wee awkward bolt just in behind the right side foot peg

 

[Pukmeister]

That all looks normal with plenty of friction material still on the driven plate. The moment of truth beckons when the box is pulled. Be patient with it don’t get too medieval when trying to prise the box off, they hang up on the casing dowels and splines.

 

[Pukmeister]

If the clutch and input shaft splines turn out to be fine, you are probably looking at a gearbox job.

 

[Lawrence_NZ]

That all looks normal with plenty of friction material still on the driven plate. The moment of truth beckons when the box is pulled. Be patient with it don’t get too medieval when trying to prise the box off, they hang up on the casing dowels and splines.

I got a dead blow hammer for the occasion so will tappity tap it. Thanks for the tip @DrFarkoff, I'll get in there tomorrow and see what is what. The seals on the gearbox looked lots better than I expected so I'm thinking someone has already been in there. As it is a 2005 with >100k kms on it, would expect worse.

 

[Lawrence_NZ]

If the clutch and input shaft splines turn out to be fine, you are probably looking at a gearbox job.

cracking open the gearbox if everything else looks fine you reckon to confirm shredded gears? The engine itself sounded healthy so it has to be close...

 

[Pukmeister]

My suspicion would be stripped splines in the input shaft damper/pinion, but like anything, you only know once it’s opened up.

Once the gearbox is removed, try selecting gears by hand and rotating the input shaft by hand then see what the output shaft does and how things sound/feel.

 

[Pukmeister]

If you need to open up the gearbox casings, you need to make a cheap wooden jig stand and then use a heat gun to sufficiently expand the bearing housings before attempting to lift the gear cluster out. Without heat it won’t come apart.

Worry about that if it gets that far.

 

[botus]

occurred to me the 20 year old rear main seal ought to be replaced whilst apart.... they go in dry, then you rip the sleeve out and leave for 24hrs - oil it and they go wrong

 

[Pukmeister]

Here’s a pic of my 2008GSA input shaft fully disassembled. If either the end splines or pinion/damper splines got stripped it would graunch and fail to transmit drive just like you describe.

With yours being an earlier bike, your input damper assembly is most likely a coil spring rather than spring washers like in my photo but the function is the same.

I ended up fitting a fully built replacement shaft from BMW for £500 as I couldn’t get a new input damper on its own (the pressed steel casing had split open as seen in the photo).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Pukmeister]

Hopefully my box of parts I sent should arrive with you in NZ fairly soon, they are all for a 2008 bike including the pushrod provided, so should drop straight in. Let me know when you get them.

 

[Lawrence_NZ]

I'm watching the postbox like a greasy hawk

 

[Lawrence_NZ]

So it looks like it is the female splines in the clutch area.

The gearbox splines look ok enough but the female side is pretty smooth with the splines having sheared off. Lots of sparkles in the grease but no big bits obvious.

 

[Nin]

That would do it. Next question is - why did that happen?

 

[botus]

That would do it. Next question is - why did that happen?

will be loads of reasons - but likely a few key ones

a batch of bad spec materials designed to BMW stds on the centre plate
the fact the fueling is a disaster won't help - chatter, lots of on off power application, lots of clutch abuse working around a terrible fuel map etc. - AF-Xieds aren't just for Christmas
maybe the input shaft cush-drive (post #71) is playing up, allowing to much transmission lash from bikes that run like a joke, the fault was normal on early bikes
usage of the bike lots of nadgery town work or off roading
high usage in dusty areas
lack of lube on the splines
very aggressive use of the power popping wheelies
high mileage

 

[Lawrence_NZ]

will be loads of reasons - but likely a few key ones

a batch of bad spec materials designed to BMW stds on the centre plate
the fact the fueling is a disaster won't help - chatter, lots of on off power application, lots of clutch abuse working around a terrible fuel map etc. - AF-Xieds aren't just for Christmas
maybe the input shaft cush-drive (post #71) is playing up, allowing to much transmission lash from bikes that run like a joke, the fault was normal on early bikes
usage of the bike lots of nadgery town work or off roading
high usage in dusty areas
lack of lube on the splines
very aggressive use of the power popping wheelies
high mileage

High mileage? - ~68k miles
Previous owner used it offroad extensively. In his 70s so unlikely to have been popping wheelies but who knows...
I use it on road for commuting, popping to the shops and occasional training days on the road mostly year round
Point of failure wasn't aggressively accelerating when I changed up and the immediate crunch and loss of drive suggested the splines all came off in one hit. Just hope I can get the bits all out.
@Pukmeister suggested to me that the design was intentional to have hardened steel in the non consumable part. i.e. the clutch plate is softer metal than the shaft so in the event of failure, the clutch can be replaced easier/cheaper. That makes sense to me from an engineering and servicing perspective.

I admit to a complete lack of servicing in the three or so years I have owned it but also only put about 15k kms on it in that time. Perhaps a more regular servicing would have picked up something amiss.
As a bonus, I am now looking into getting my old VFR some much needed attention with oil, coolant, airfilter, sparkplug, breaks and clutch fluid replacements and am going to check on the Regulator/Rectifier to see if it has already been replaced.

Just glad it didn't kick me off

 

[Hann]

Clutch replacement is beyond me based on it appearing to take the back half of the bike off to get in there. Likewise, replacing/repairing the splines at the engine side is out of my league.

You seem to be doing quite well considering you didn`t fancy tackling it at first.
Enjoying the challenge?

 

[botus]

clutches are just a nuisance

for great smooth operation a bit of gunge on the splines stops rust / corrosion and allows the centre plate to slide away from flywheel and pressure plate - but then it collects all the dust of the wearing plate and all goes wrong for a different reason

either they built plate's splines soft to help smooth operation or its was just bad material - I have never seen a plate fail on the splines (or heard of it on any vehicle) - but in this thread a few say it happens on these ones....

there was no service work you could really have done to help the plate - you only pull the box after its gone - unless carb balance could be considered a contributory factor

 

[Lawrence_NZ]

You seem to be doing quite well considering you didn`t fancy tackling it at first.
Enjoying the challenge?

ask me when its back together The disassembly is far easier that reassembly. No torque settings and keep removing things until you get to the bit you want. Assembly will be a challenge. I'll definitely need to get the wife to help put the two ends together as it is a handful. Also, the danger of breaking (or finding broken) things on the way in can be a deterrent. I'm up for replacing rusted bolts and gaiters and seals that now I've seen, am not comfortable giving it lots of throttle, without replacement. I do not intend to repeat the task so will be doing as much as I can while the bits are accessible. Without @Pukmeister's assistance in advice and parts, it would stay a climbing frame for the little'un.

Glad you lot pushed me to it as it has been an interesting voyage into mechanical systems.