Autocom Bike to Bike Radio Range?

[ianm00]

I regulary go for rideouts with a friend around Monmouthshire in Wales.

We seem to have decided on purchasing an autocom active-7 system to use with a bike to bike radio.

We are thinking of the Kenwood Funkey radio.

But we seem to get complicting oppinions of the typical range that these radios will work at. We understand that range will be reduced in built up areas etc.

Some people say 100metres is average range, we were hoping for 1-2mile range (out of town in welsh mountains etc) Is this likey? Or will we only be able to speak to each other if we can actually see each other?

Any help would be appreciated.

Ian

 

[Fanum]

Ian..I have no experience of any bike to bike stuff and i'm sure the more experienced old boys will pipe up in a second....but I've used this type of walkie-talkie while skiing a lot and we usually get 2-3 km range from them.......obviously better on clear ground (3-4 km maybe) but last year we were having 'where are we going today' conversations across the resort with our buddies in their apartment every morning and they were 3 km away.....i dont see any reason why it should be much different on a bike.

Oh, and unless i'm completely wrong and about to be told so, I think you could all use different radios and it'd still work...we certainly did and all the channels are tuned the same so that's all you need to check before each ride.......I'm only saying that 'cos those units seem a bit on the dear side to me.......

Nearly all of them come with VOX operation now and you can get them for 30 quid a pair if you scout around.......my last set was 90 quid for a set of four including two chargers that charged two units each......Argos I think.

HTH.

 

[oblertone]

PMR446

You are talking about 'Personal Mobile Radio' (PMR) using a frequency of 446mHz hence PMR446. All such radios will talk to each other if the same setting is selected on each handset; normally these radios offer 8 main channels, each with up to 39 sub divisions so you have a wide choice of settings. Range is normally quoted at 3km or 2 miles and while this is true, it does vary with speed and height. Between two moving bikes it can be as little as half a mile, but distances of up to 80km have been claimed between stationary handsets.
For use on a bike (without Autocom) VOX is no use as wind noise often sets it off, so you need a radio that is capable of using a remote PTT (push to talk) button. I'm not sure how Autocom is operated but I think it can be set to VOX for intercom and PTT for Radio, unless of course you wish your fellow biker to hear your every utterance.
It is also true that PMR sets can be very cheap, but these cheaper sets often don't have the necessary set up to use on a bike.
Try a 'google' search on PMR446 and you will find UK sites with radios reviewed ad nauseum !
I personally use a set from a company called http://www.intaride.com/ and have found them pleasant and prompt to deal with, plus their sets are designed for bike use.

 

[judge]

As Paul says but I can give you a bit more of perspective from an Autocom users point of view.

Autocom recommend three units Kenwoods TK3101, Funky and Icom F22SR, all PMR446 type radios. However they are NOT the cheapest suppliers of these handsets and they are not the only ones you can use. Autocom you'll find VERY accomodating and will make leads for pretty much anything (at a price ).
If going the autocom route do all your riding buddies a favour and opt for the PTT switch (especially if you have a pillion for company or a noisy helmet).

City Slicker has previously recommended the Alinco DJ-446 handset on account of it being very easy to modify power output from the PMR 446 type standard of 0.5w to 5w. This will give a far better range but will kill the radios battery so you'll need to power this off the bike (and of course doing this will contravene the regulations for licence free operation).

I have used and can recommend Crystal Radio for your radio needs. If you are fitting the radio to your bike then go for the more durable units, if its in your tank bank then the lesser units will I guess be fine.

Last bit of advice, in your research you WILL find bike kits and intercoms for £20-50 from Maplins et al, WALK AWAY!!

 

[ianm00]

Alinco DJ446 & Autocom?????

Does anyone know if the Alinco DJ446 can be used with autocom?

The idea of increasing the power output to give a better range seems good.

I tried ringing autocom and they say that they have never heard of Alinco radios!

Thanks again

Ian

 

[judge]

Re: Alinco DJ446 & Autocom?????

Does anyone know if the Alinco DJ446 can be used with autocom?

You won't be able to PM him so send an e-mail to City Slicker as he recommended the Alinco and so far as I know does or did use it with an Autocom so presumably got the lead from somewhere.

 

[Roge]

RADIO RANGE

At the PMR frequencies indeed the radio horizon is line of sight ie if you can see the other user(s) you can communicate. There is a little penetration through solid objects, walls buildings etc but not through hills mountains dense woodland etc.
The idea of giving the public the use of these frequencies is precicly because range is limited and frequency reuse is at a maximum, the power is also regulated also reducing range. therefore the advertised 2-3km is not unreasonable over flat unobscured ground, add obstacles and it will be considerably reduce. It works well for bike to bike effectivly if you can see your mate you will talk. Amy radios pumping out 50W might make 20 miles with a vehicle mounted tuned antenna.
The other issue ia antenna placement and orientation, if one is horizontal and the other virticle recieved signal strenth will be reduced so will be burying it in the bowels of the bike hence you will se coppers etc with the antenna high on the shoulder and virticle

 

[ianm00]

PMR Radios Without Autocom?

Just another thought.

Is it possible to use just a PMR radio Say Alinco DJ446 and a motorcyle headset? Without any autocom system!

This would reduce the cost significantly as Autocom is expensive.

Ian

 

[oblertone]

Yes it is.

I use a PMR radio, headset and remote PTT without an autocom. Frankly it is not much use above 60mph but below that it's fine for chatting to mate's or pillions (I have a spare set). Mine was supplied by Intaride but any bike specific one will do the same job.

However, I am saving up for the autocom to boost power to the speakers.

 

[Greg Masters]

I have the Autocom with Kenwood 3101. The range is dependant on weather and landscape, but we've talked at about 3kms in urban territory before now.

Although I have PTT, you don't really need this unless you have regular conversations with your pillion, or, like Charlie Batty, sing along to the music you're listening to! The Autocom PTT is switchable at the bars between PTT/Vox/transmit continuously.

IMHO, what really makes this kit work (inc the mobile 'phone and radio/MP3) is in-ear speakers-cum-earplugs. They are over £100 as the have to be bespoked to your ears, but transform your listening!



Greg

 

[thesanguine]

IMHO, what really makes this kit work (inc the mobile 'phone and radio/MP3) is in-ear speakers-cum-earplugs. They are over £100 as the have to be bespoked to your ears, but transform your listening![/B][/QUOTE]

Are they really that good Greg? I'm looking into the whole Autocom thing. How do you integrate them into a headset?

 

[judge]

Re: PMR Radios Without Autocom?

Just another thought.

Is it possible to use just a PMR radio Say Alinco DJ446 and a motorcyle headset? Without any autocom system!

This would reduce the cost significantly as Autocom is expensive.

Ian

I refer the honorable gentlemen to the answer I gave previously about looking for a cheap option - you'll be throwing it away and seeking an Autocom sooner rather than later. There are plenty on here who could testify to this.

The Easi Rider Kit 1 is £99 + your radio + your radio lead. This isn't that expensive compared to what it once was.

 

[judge]

Are they really that good Greg? I'm looking into the whole Autocom thing. How do you integrate them into a headset?

Without a doubt, I got mine from Ultimate Ear, they will offer a discount if you mention the GSCLUBUK/UKGS'er. The atuocom headset is modified and fitted with a 3.5mm female jack plug. The custom plugs are supplied as an independent unit with 3.5mm stereo jack meaning they can be used seperately from the Autocom if you desire (and I sometimes do)

Also supplied with a volume control should you desire to have one.

 

[Greg Masters]

Are they really that good Greg? I'm looking into the whole Autocom thing. How do you integrate them into a headset?

Simply, yes!

With the Autocom slim speakers, I couldn't use the telephone much above 50mph - but with the in-ear speaker-cum-earplugs, a telephone conversation at 100mph is easy and clear (in Germany, honest!!).

You need to get an adaptor loom from Headset Services at Shoreham Airport which plugs into the speaker sockets on the Autocom helmet loom. That lead gives you a Nexus stereo jack socket (military spec, not a regular High St spec). They will also put the corresponding plug on the ear piece leads.

I've glued the Nexus socket to the side of my helmet (no jokes, please!!). City Slicker has ensured that his ear-piece leads are the correct length so that they don't flap in the breeze or get caught on your jacket studs etc.

If you go this route, just remember to unplug the Nexus plug before you remove your helmet!!

Greg

 

[cecilthecat]

One other thing to remember with radio communications is that you need to have a matched uplink/downlink power budget. Basically this means that it is no good just turning up the power on your radio equipment unless you either don't match your reciever to increase the sensitivity or that the other party does not increas his power as well.

So if your radio for example is transmitting 50 watts and your mates is only putting out 5 watts then in all probability at longer range he may be able to still recieve your signal but you will not recieve his signal as it is much weaker.

 

[judge]

Although I have PTT, you don't really need this unless you have regular conversations with your pillion, or, like Charlie Batty, sing along to the music you're listening to!

I base needing a PTT switch on the basis of our trip to Normandy last year when all but charlie had a PTT swtich and his was the only one not set up properly to deal with wind noise.

 

[nleader]

Bike to bike

There's already been some good advice on this thread. I'm a professional advanced motorcycle trainer (when I'm not a professional skills development coach) and, yes, I have an Autocom setup.

The intercom component is what makes Autocom better than all the rest except, perhaps, Sonic. I went with Autocom because I wanted a rider-to-pillion intercom, phone calls and music. For bike to bike, Sonic is just as good. Nothing else is as far as I am aware.

Do you want to communicate at higher speeds (say, 50mph +)? Then you need a microphone setup that can remove wind noise before the radio is asked to transmit it. Autocom/Sonic do. Other, cheaper solutions do not. That's fine for training CBT at 30mph, or even DAS at 60mph (just) but not for higher speeds as you and your mate ride down Golden Valley. Vox on an Autocom is fine at high speed. I use PTT or 'always transmit' when training.

Once you get the intercom side sorted and your helmet fitted out, then look at radios. If you want to use a 'licence free' radio, then PMR446 is the way to go. All models are all restricted to 0.5W transmission power and a fixed, short aerial. If not, it isn't legal and you could get nicked. This gives a shortish range when on a bike, as stated by others, but it's good enough if you can see each other. Having both aerials in the same plane (both vertical or both horizontal) does make a difference.

Cheap radios do not transmit with same clarity as expensive ones. I have an Icom FS22R for transmission (expensive) and use cheap Alans for my trainees. Works fine. If I use an Alan to transmit, sound quality is worse and the trainees don't always understand what I'm saying. The Icom is built like a brick s***house, too. The Alans are not.

You cannot do this properly on the cheap. Trust me and all the others who are saying the same. We are not bitter people trying to defend our expensive purchases. We have working systems that satisfy our needs. Some of us went down the cheap route before throwing it all away and going Autocom/Sonic in the end.

Hope this helps.

Norman