Deleted account 211025001
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- Feb 3, 2005
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wilbjr21 said:
Or, kill the engine with the kill switch and leave the ignition turned on - no need to then run through the set up procedure.
Andres
BMW to drop servos
- Thread starter JayGee
- Start date
Or, kill the engine with the kill switch and leave the ignition turned on - no need to then run through the set up procedure.
Andres
pikeydave
Registered user
Bones said:
Not right. You do have brakes. Try pulling the brake lever more or ask an adult to help.
Phil Thomas
Registered user
Apart from the fact that servos were quite unecessary, the fatal flaw was that it was essentially a Fail Unsafe system - how BMW ever got type aproval in the first place is beyond me.
I suspect the demise of the system now has more to do with the lawsuits in Germany, rather than listening to the customers.
Regards to all,
Phil Thomas
I suspect the demise of the system now has more to do with the lawsuits in Germany, rather than listening to the customers.
Regards to all,
Phil Thomas
Yellow Peril
Registered user
Must admit I was never worried either way till my Trip to Garmisch and I saw for my self that very unlike event descrided in the hand book i.e. the bike shuts down aux systems after a prelonged period of heavy braking and man it does. Trouble is to get it all going again you have to restart the bike.
In my case it only shut down the gps and intercomm but that is bad enough
In my case it only shut down the gps and intercomm but that is bad enough
Phil Thomas said:
i couldn't agree more, the whole system is a lot of unnecessary bollocks designed to make people who can't ride feel cosy.
Quite agree, it's the closest we'll get to BMW admitting they designed a dodgy braking system, when it works it's sort of OK, but fail safe it is not. A production life of less than two years surely indicates they know they got it wrong.Phil Thomas said:
I've loved the servo brakes and never found them a pain at slow speed either - they just need gentle inputs. Hit them hard and it does stop you dead. I think I must meet Cookie's defintition of people who can't ride.
Must be longer than that as the GS has been out for over 2 years and the later 1150s had it before that.
The other thing I've found is I get reasonable brake pad life. Don't know whether its to do with the servos. The RT has just gone past 13k much of it 2 up with luggage and it looks as if the pads will make at least 20k front and rear.
Having said that I won't be too sorry to see them go as they seem too complicated and have the capacity to fail in too many ways even though the residual braking isn't too bad (but not too good either and wooden and slow to build up pressure).
Paul
Must be longer than that as the GS has been out for over 2 years and the later 1150s had it before that.
The other thing I've found is I get reasonable brake pad life. Don't know whether its to do with the servos. The RT has just gone past 13k much of it 2 up with luggage and it looks as if the pads will make at least 20k front and rear.
Having said that I won't be too sorry to see them go as they seem too complicated and have the capacity to fail in too many ways even though the residual braking isn't too bad (but not too good either and wooden and slow to build up pressure).
Paul
Paul Wakefield said:
i never said if you had the system it means you can't ride. i was trying to say it is a bit of marketing aimed at people who think it might help in some way.
of course you may well not be able to ride & the system may make you feel cozy, i don't know.
marcus said:
At least one comparison test has proved that this is ONLY true on a nice smooth asphalt runway where the tests are run.
The test at a tyre manufacturers test track proved conclusively that on a rough surface - in this case ribs placed across the direction of travel - braking was quicker with ABS.
Reported failures notwithstanding, I like the Servo-ABS set-up.
Reading all the stuff posted over the years a couple of things are apparent.
Late 1150/1200 versions seem to be less aggressive in their action than that reported by owners of earlier incarnations. My '04 1150 brakes are smoothe, powerful and probably the best brakes I've encountered for everyday use on a bike in 32 years.
There appear to be some people who still have a problem with the start-up procedure who cannot think around the self-diagnostic checks.
Another thing that strikes are comparisons with the braking on bikes that have conventional front forks. Any such comparison fails to take into account the way that Telelever transmits the forces back to the centre of the mass. It completely changes the feel of the braking experience. Those who are waiting for the rear wheel to unload will be waiting a long time in normal braking conditions. It takes extreme efforts to get the rear wheel off the ground but I accept it can be induced (the picture of Ming doing it proves it's possible).
The first time that I rode a Telelever equipped bike I thought at first that the brakes weren't working because there was so little of the normal sensations associated with heavy braking. It was only when I had almost stopped and I realised that I needed to put a foot down did I realised how good the Telelever is at masking the braking effort.
Yes I might moan if my bike suffers a failure. Yes I'm concerned about the cost of repairs or replacement. I'll have to deal with that when or if it happens.
Reading all the stuff posted over the years a couple of things are apparent.
Late 1150/1200 versions seem to be less aggressive in their action than that reported by owners of earlier incarnations. My '04 1150 brakes are smoothe, powerful and probably the best brakes I've encountered for everyday use on a bike in 32 years.
There appear to be some people who still have a problem with the start-up procedure who cannot think around the self-diagnostic checks.
Another thing that strikes are comparisons with the braking on bikes that have conventional front forks. Any such comparison fails to take into account the way that Telelever transmits the forces back to the centre of the mass. It completely changes the feel of the braking experience. Those who are waiting for the rear wheel to unload will be waiting a long time in normal braking conditions. It takes extreme efforts to get the rear wheel off the ground but I accept it can be induced (the picture of Ming doing it proves it's possible).
The first time that I rode a Telelever equipped bike I thought at first that the brakes weren't working because there was so little of the normal sensations associated with heavy braking. It was only when I had almost stopped and I realised that I needed to put a foot down did I realised how good the Telelever is at masking the braking effort.
Yes I might moan if my bike suffers a failure. Yes I'm concerned about the cost of repairs or replacement. I'll have to deal with that when or if it happens.
Sorry - my comment was really the heat talking.
Paul
Paul Wakefield said:
Sorry - my comment was really the heat talking.
Paul
yeah, me too
ahhh
I like it!
My introduction of this system was on my R1100s ABS and believe me once you trust it and you have adjusted your feeling to the bikes capabilities, you can ride cosiderably faster (if you need to) using this system. My track times at Donnington will attest to that, (only bikes on race tyres were quicker) we were out braking the R1s etc. Why do you think ABS is reglated out of F1 and top level bike racing????
I think the brakes on the 12GS are very good and as capable as teh R1100 and 1200s set up. (one of the reasons I bought it).
As to the begining of the thread ..... 18m from 40mph seems like you are being a bit "girly" with the lever. make sure the tarmac is dry and warm with no loose top surface ride at 40 feed the brake on until its started barking then pull it as hard as two fingers will allow you.... You should be able top shorten that consdierably!
Bob.
My introduction of this system was on my R1100s ABS and believe me once you trust it and you have adjusted your feeling to the bikes capabilities, you can ride cosiderably faster (if you need to) using this system. My track times at Donnington will attest to that, (only bikes on race tyres were quicker) we were out braking the R1s etc. Why do you think ABS is reglated out of F1 and top level bike racing????
I think the brakes on the 12GS are very good and as capable as teh R1100 and 1200s set up. (one of the reasons I bought it).
As to the begining of the thread ..... 18m from 40mph seems like you are being a bit "girly" with the lever. make sure the tarmac is dry and warm with no loose top surface ride at 40 feed the brake on until its started barking then pull it as hard as two fingers will allow you.... You should be able top shorten that consdierably!
Bob.
Dellis
Registered user
Tomcat said:I spent some time at the weekend practising emergency stops from 40 mph in a deserted car park. I'm not sure if I actually managed to activate the ABS - there was no pulsing of the levers. Is there a way of telling if the ABS has activated, or was my braking distance (about 18m) just down to my supreme riding skill?
TC
Pull the lever harder! The ABS will kick in and you won't fall off
Dave
Dellis
Registered user
Bones said:Can't stand the servo on my GS.
Pushing the bike around the garden/garage? Got to have the ignition on or no brakes.
Turn ignition on to get brakes working. Horrible whirring servos everytime you touch the brakes. Why? No other servo'd vehicle I have had makes that noise?
Hill starts? Can't touch the brakes when starting the bike else the servos wont work. eg level crossing near home, roll up to gates and turn engine off. Gradient means you need to hold foot or hand on brake leaver. Gates open, start bike, ride off with no brakesIt's bollox!!!
Had a R1200S loaner the other day
I'm with you and the servo is why I'm trading my 03 1150 for a new 1200 without servo.
Dave
gfspencer
Guest
Mouse said:
Me too!! Heck, I even like the Servo.
bonox
Guest
The servo remaining on the back brake is more likely due to asc than abs. You may think that hondas dcbs system stinks, but it works very simply and elegantly in proportion to how much work the front is doing - and to my knowledge, noone has ever had a failure. You also don't have to implement a complete linking - you could very easily do a partial integral like the bmw setup, for much less weight and complexity.
For traction control however, there are two ways of controlling wheel spin - reduce engine output or apply the brakes. If the rider isn't on the brakes at the time spin occurs, there would be no available brake pressure in a 'normal' brake system - the servo provides the necessary pressure for the electronics to control if necessary.
imo, the document provided only mentions fuel and ignition interrupts for asc, but this could very well change in future. The remaining servo is still more complicated than it needs to be, pressure bias to the rear or not.
For traction control however, there are two ways of controlling wheel spin - reduce engine output or apply the brakes. If the rider isn't on the brakes at the time spin occurs, there would be no available brake pressure in a 'normal' brake system - the servo provides the necessary pressure for the electronics to control if necessary.
imo, the document provided only mentions fuel and ignition interrupts for asc, but this could very well change in future. The remaining servo is still more complicated than it needs to be, pressure bias to the rear or not.
Dellis said:
.........yes, me too..............just done it...................
Dellis
Registered user
jonnie comet said:
Pick mine up next wednesday from Rainbow
Dave
Dellis said:Pick mine up next wednesday from Rainbow
Dave
Note - you also don't get the ABS!
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