Bogging down at low revs

[rammsteinguy]

Hi everyone.

I finally took the plunge and picked up my first gs1200 last week, its an amazing handling bike but feel like it's not running as it should. A bit of advice regarding if it sounds typical of a 1200gs would be much appreciated.

The bike is a 2007 model and has 22k on the clock with a remus end can. It's last service was just over 1k ago 2 years ago and an annual inspection done by a dealer this time last year.

The bike seems to really bog down when pulling away and seems to not have as much pull as I expected it would low down in the rev range.

I have to add a lot more clutch and when it fully engages the revs drop nearly 1000rpm even though I'm adding a lot more throttle. It's hard to explain but it's as if I'm setting off in a much higher gear (I've checked I'm not hehe)

I have to slip the clutch at speeds below 15/10 mph in first gear as it gets really really lumpy (way lumpier than my last r1150r which i could ride at less than walking pace without even thinking of touching the clutch.

For hill starts I need to raise the revs to around 3k just so when the clutch engages it doesn't stall and even then add a good bit more throttle.
On the level, if I don't slip the clutch a lot and keep the revs above 2k it almost stalls.

My last bike was a r1150r rockster which felt like it had way more power low down and I could let even the revs drop below 2k, trickling along in traffic and it would smoothly pick up, even in high gears.

This is the first 1200gs I've ridden and know it is different to other bikes I've owned but the only other bike I've had to slip / rev like this setting off is my old two stroke aprillia

Do you lot have to slip the clutch a lot more than other bikes? Surely an engine like this shouldn't struggle to set off...never mind what it will be like when I fill the luggage or take my girlfriend on the back.

Any thoughts would be much appreciated.

 

[comberjohn]

Definitely doesn't sound right.
Wouldn't put too much faith in having been checked by a dealer. They'll do the absolute minimum.
My guess would be one of the ignition coils overheating and failing or else the throttle bodies need synced.
There will be someone along shortly to give you some more ideas.

 

[street_moto]

As already stated not right from your explanation. If you bought it from a dealer I'd be taking it back for a look over.
Brakes not binding are they?

Starts, ticks over and pulls okay once away?

Maybe someone near you has a 911 you can plug in to check things over?

Hope you get sorted, keep us updated!

 

[rammsteinguy]

Thanks for the replies so far.

It wasn't an official BMW dealer, just a small shop so I'd be surprised if they spent too long checking it out.
They did ride it to get it mot'd but I don't think they'd get too many beemers in so probably thought it was how it should be (or turned a blind eye to it...)

It starts within a second of pressing the button and doesn't seem to struggle. I think the last owner fitted a stronger battery too, along with lots of lovely extras

The brakes aren't binding. It pulls a bit below 4k but seems to struggle and doesn't pull half as strong as an r1150r.
Tick over sounds a bit lumpy with the rev needle twitching a fair bit.

I'm going to contact the dealer tomorrow and see what they say. Not holding my breath as I can see them just saying that's how they all are. If they do then I might be tempted to pop it to rainbow.

 

[Rusty Bolts]

From what you have said it sounds like stick coils or spark plugs themselves. Unfortunately, a GS911 won't shown up anything unless they have failed completely. In the past I have checked main stick coils by disconnecting the wire and then pulling it off the spark plug. Reconnect the power and signal wire plug in the coil. Insert a spare spark plug in the coil and then fire up the engine. The engine will run at tick over using the secondary coils. Now hold the stick coil with the spark plug in and move it toward an Earth on the engine somewhere. As you get close (6-10") the plug will throw a nice fat blue spark across to the engine. If you get within a couple of inches before it starts and its a bit weak or yellow, I would suggest that the coil is on its way out. Repeat for the other side and both secondary coils. Strongly recommend you get a stick coil puller particularly if the coils have been in there for some time.
Also it may be worth checking that the throttle cable (at the splitter box and throttle body end) has not been dislodged during the service and the steppers are getting tied up in knots.

 

[bigmadstu]

Sounds worse than mine was when I got it. Mine was lumpy, reluctant and was also drinking petrol. I've a GS911 so had a good poke about and identified a faulty lambda sensor. Unplugged them both, reset the fuel adaptations and bike was transformed. ( I've a power commander on it now so have ditched the lambdas completely. ) Maybe a bit of a hike for you but you are welcome to pop over and we can plug it into the GS911. I live past Gretna just north of Carlisle.
Stu

 

[Bendy toy]

What type of coils do you have? Those with the newer stainless case are ok but the old black painted type are lucky to last 5 years. Mine actually smelled burnt but were still working - badly but working enough to use the bike.

 

[rammsteinguy]

Quick update.
I've not had chance to check the coils as yet but popped in to a BMW dealer near me and they got someone to take it for a quick spin after I explained what it was doing.
Afterwards they said it rides like an average 1200gs and there's basically nothing to worry about. Even gave it a health check.

Boy am I red faced. I still don't get why it seems to struggle to initially set off and have to slip the clutch at speeds under 10-12mph. It could just be that it's the first 1200gs I've been on and I shouldn't compare it to any of the bikes I've had previously

I'm still going to check the coils in the next few days for piece of mind...and booking it in for a service can't hurt either I guess. A throttle body sync could be an idea too.

They said it will be running lean as they're lean out of the factory and it has a different end can on which he said won't be helping matters low down and even suggested getting an original can to pop back on. (The original can wasn't included when I bought the bike)

I might have to have a look to see if an original can will fit with the metal mule pannier racks they the last owner fitted.

I'll have a look at the coils and let you know what I find.

Thanks for the offer Stu about the gs911. It's a good few hours ride away from me here in sunny south Yorkshire so I might have to say no, although a trio up that way is on the cards sometime in the future

 

[duckspeed]

Sounds like another customer for Hilltop
Geoff turned my bike from one that was close to ebay to a keeper

 

[kwallace21]

Yep. A trip to see Geoff at Hilltop would be my advice. Not too far a run from the Shire.

 

[sproggy]

.....they said it rides like an average 1200gs and there's basically nothing to worry about. Even gave it a health check.

I can say from personal experience that a main dealer's idea of "they all do that" or "there's nothing to worry about" is often at odds with what everyone else thinks! Or maybe their idea of 'average' just isn't all that high. My local dealer seemed unable to perform a proper throttle balance on my first 1200 (bought new from them) and I had to go elsewhere to get it running the way I knew it should. A friend of mine was looking for a 1200RT, rode one at the same local dealer and said it was so rough he'd never buy one - he assumed that "they all do that". Just because it wasn't set up properly! He now rides a 1200 Trophy and refuses to try my 1200GS because he "knows it'll be as rough as that RT".

So I'd second the recommendation of taking it to an independent who knows what he's doing. Or Hilltop it if you want to, but a 2007 shouldn't really need a remap if it's running right. I have a 2007 also with 22k miles and it runs so sweetly I don't feel it's worth messing with.

 

[comberjohn]

Changing back to your original silencer will make no difference. The ECU adapts to it fairly quickly.
Motorrad Germany did a series of tests on the TC with different silencers and videoed them. Most of them did that big hesitation moving off. Incidentally, most of the aftermarket silencers they tested showed a reduction in power. Think Remus was same as standard.
Your 1150 probably wouldn't pass later emissions regulations, that's why the 1200 feels like it does.
Hilltop is good, so I'm told, but there is another way.
http://www.ukgser.com/forums/showthread.php/418381-Standard-vs-PCV-vs-AF-XIED

 

[gerarddwatts]

And that way...snappily named AF XIED....certainly improved mine and made it the bike it should have been in the first place.

Now to decide whether or not to swap them onto my new-to-me-yesterday 1200LC TE 2015?

 

[sproggy]

Changing back to your original silencer will make no difference. The ECU adapts to it fairly quickly.
Motorrad Germany did a series of tests on the TC with different silencers and videoed them. Most of them did that big hesitation moving off.

The OP doesn't have a TC. From what I understand TCs respond better to Hilltopping than earlier bikes (i.e. TCs were worse to start with so have more scope for improvement).

 

[Bendy toy]

My bike is a 2008 single cam. It's not been Hill Topped but a Power Commander with "nearly there" settings made a huge difference in top end power and drivability. It even handles better!!! Yes really the throttle now delivers exactly what you ask of it so cornering is easier.

Previously it would struggle below 2,500 revs. It will now go well below 2000 rpm. However to be fair I avoid slogging it. Those big slug pistons will put great strain on the engine bottom end if they are not spinning properly.

The issue for BMW was always about emissions. Big boxer twins are not the way anyone would go when emissions are the issue they have become. What a shame BMW didn't talk to Fiat for MultiAir valve technology and Orbital for fuel injection.

 

[comberjohn]

You just had to share with us about the LC, didn't you, Gerard?
Congratulations. Enjoy.
Let us know how it works on the LC if you transfer them.
The PCV was a good option, bendy. Or maybe it was the sudden improvement after fitting.
Did make it a much nicer bike to ride. Probably a similar effect when getting a remap.
The AF-XIED takes several hundred miles to make the complete adaptations.
I liked the PCV and probably would have kept it but for issues with sealing the connector on the TPS from rain.

 

[Bendy toy]

I much prefer the bike with the PCV, but it is to be honest an engineered bodge. The bike runs open loop with O2 sensors removed so a change of exhaust affects the settings.

Mine runs a bit rich but the power delivery and top end whoosh are everything a big twin should be. Just today I pulled onto a road at an angled junction and realised a car was approaching. I whacked open throttle to make space had the front end floating nicely.

The AF-XIED will correct the fuelling which causes 90% of the problems. The remap costs about the same but changes other stuff so should be the better option. People swear by whichever version they have so in the end its down to personal preference.

Personally I like the more elegant option of a remap so when funds allow that will be how I go.

 

[rammsteinguy]

Thanks for all the advice.

I’ve done a bit of reading about the whole AF-XiED / PCV / Hilltop remap and think I will end up choosing one of them in the near future.
My first port of call is to have a gander at the coils and plugs I think and take it from there.

Does anyone have any recommendations for who to take it to for a quick second opinion of the bike if I decide to go down that route?
Somewhere nearer South Yorkshire would be better.

On a side note, the nice shiny chrome headers are turning a hint of blue, not as much on the nearside cylinder but quite blue on the farside. I’m guessing this is an indicator of it running a touch lean too?

 

[RedRick Esq.]

Doncaster motorcycles are pretty good in Doncaster

I use them for tyres and servicing when not in warranty

 

[Bendy toy]

The headers will discolour whatever metal they are made of. My bike has titanium headers and it's running a bit rich but the headers are brick red colour. I used to clean and polish them but got fed up with grazed knuckles.

For the definitive expert opinion north of London, talk to Mikey at Overland and Classic near Oakham.