Mouse
Registered user
Fanum said:
Interesting point - for brakes, which failure mode is the "safe" one - on or off?
I suppose the correct answer is "no servo assistance" - but the brakes on the 1200 are so weak without the servos ...
Brake Failure
- Thread starter Arthurwg
- Start date
Interesting point - for brakes, which failure mode is the "safe" one - on or off?
I suppose the correct answer is "no servo assistance" - but the brakes on the 1200 are so weak without the servos ...
Arthurwg
Registered user
When my brakes "failed," I can assure you there was no "fail-safe" braking what-so-ever.
Dr.ABS Brake
Guest
Lock Up Brakes
As far as i discovered there are three cases known of lock up brakes:
This is the case of DBMman here in this thread. But I couldn't find an update of his story.
Then there is the case of race2win1 at advrider.com: Another new brake problem. LOCKED UP!
And there is the case of Chrissy at the German board: Brakes lock up during riding
There are three storys that lack details and update. How come?
Dr.
As far as i discovered there are three cases known of lock up brakes:
This is the case of DBMman here in this thread. But I couldn't find an update of his story.
Then there is the case of race2win1 at advrider.com: Another new brake problem. LOCKED UP!
And there is the case of Chrissy at the German board: Brakes lock up during riding
There are three storys that lack details and update. How come?
Dr.
race2win1
Guest
race2win1 here-
The local BMW shop has not been able to really give me much of an answer to what caused this. They said 2 codes showed up but they couldn't really tell me what the codes mean or why they came up? Needless to say at this point I am not a happy camper and not sure what to do next.
Joel
The local BMW shop has not been able to really give me much of an answer to what caused this. They said 2 codes showed up but they couldn't really tell me what the codes mean or why they came up? Needless to say at this point I am not a happy camper and not sure what to do next.
Joel
DBRMan
Guest
OK - an update. The dealer in Malaga Spain had the bike for six months total. At an early stage in this saga they said that they had discovered that the ABS sensor had 'moved' and this caused the lockup. They went on to say that they could not prove if this happened before or after the bike threw me off when the front wheel locked up for 15 minutes! In other words it was my fault.
After I finally received a letter from BMW in Spain over Christmas last (2 months after the problem occured) saying that they would not accept responsibility and that it was not a factory fault, I then consulted a lawyer in Madrid.
The result was that I had made a mistake giving the bike back to the dealer without getting it checked by an independent expert. Since they had 'fixed' the fault I could not prove anything. BMW and the dealership were totally unhelpful and would not contribute to fixing the damage.
When I first called the dealer in Malaga to collect the bike they had 'lost' it! It took them nearly two weeks to accept that they still had it. I arranged to collect it on a specific day and asked them to fit it with the engine protection bars and rear pannier boxes I had ordered and paid for 9 months before and which had not been delivered when I first collected the bike.
When I arrived the bike was not at the dealership and they had to send someone to collect it. They handed it over with a flat battery (not charged for six months ) and a dented new pannier box. I had to return with the dented box that day and they swapped it although they tried to blame the dent on me first! I pointed out I had never seen the box before to the manager and he immediately replaced it. I spent over three hours at the dealer that day waiting to get someone's attention and some basic service and over an hour with the engine running because I could not switch it off and restart it!
The service from BMW is appalling. This is clearly another assembly fault that showed up as a hard fault when I first took the bike off-road (I live off-road in Spain). The dealership in Spain would not survive 6 weeks as a dealer in Northern Europe based on the way they treat customers.
I am left with damaged cylinder head and a damaged drive shaft casing and no recompense.
What this did for me was ensure that I never buy any other BMW product (I had intended to replace a BMW car with another but that is off the agenda forever). I would not buy a BMW branded wrist watch from them.
Hope this helps guys - it seems that there are two types of fault. The electronics failure in the ABS that means that the bike resorts to the 'residual braking' system and my fault which is just bad assembly at the factory and possibly bad design engineeering in the ABS sensor mounting.
I had heard that a German safety organisation and a US safety organisation are investigating the failures on this bike.
The moral of the story is - dont take the bike back to the dealer without getting it independently checked.
After I finally received a letter from BMW in Spain over Christmas last (2 months after the problem occured) saying that they would not accept responsibility and that it was not a factory fault, I then consulted a lawyer in Madrid.
The result was that I had made a mistake giving the bike back to the dealer without getting it checked by an independent expert. Since they had 'fixed' the fault I could not prove anything. BMW and the dealership were totally unhelpful and would not contribute to fixing the damage.
When I first called the dealer in Malaga to collect the bike they had 'lost' it! It took them nearly two weeks to accept that they still had it. I arranged to collect it on a specific day and asked them to fit it with the engine protection bars and rear pannier boxes I had ordered and paid for 9 months before and which had not been delivered when I first collected the bike.
When I arrived the bike was not at the dealership and they had to send someone to collect it. They handed it over with a flat battery (not charged for six months ) and a dented new pannier box. I had to return with the dented box that day and they swapped it although they tried to blame the dent on me first! I pointed out I had never seen the box before to the manager and he immediately replaced it. I spent over three hours at the dealer that day waiting to get someone's attention and some basic service and over an hour with the engine running because I could not switch it off and restart it!
The service from BMW is appalling. This is clearly another assembly fault that showed up as a hard fault when I first took the bike off-road (I live off-road in Spain). The dealership in Spain would not survive 6 weeks as a dealer in Northern Europe based on the way they treat customers.
I am left with damaged cylinder head and a damaged drive shaft casing and no recompense.
What this did for me was ensure that I never buy any other BMW product (I had intended to replace a BMW car with another but that is off the agenda forever). I would not buy a BMW branded wrist watch from them.
Hope this helps guys - it seems that there are two types of fault. The electronics failure in the ABS that means that the bike resorts to the 'residual braking' system and my fault which is just bad assembly at the factory and possibly bad design engineeering in the ABS sensor mounting.
I had heard that a German safety organisation and a US safety organisation are investigating the failures on this bike.
The moral of the story is - dont take the bike back to the dealer without getting it independently checked.
DBR Man,
I would 'cut and paste' your story into a new thread, with a new title, as the fully story and impact maybe lost on the end of this long thread.
Sounds appalling, sorry you've had a bad experience...........start a new thread with the saga.....everybody should be aware
I would 'cut and paste' your story into a new thread, with a new title, as the fully story and impact maybe lost on the end of this long thread.
Sounds appalling, sorry you've had a bad experience...........start a new thread with the saga.....everybody should be aware
Dr.ABS Brake
Guest
Paul Mac
Guest
Well I know one thig - Given what I know now I wouldn't have touched the 1200GS with a barge pole. The other day I was riding mine on the M1 in the outside lane at about 80MPH when the front N/S tank cover blew back and wrapped itself around my leg. I just managed to keep control of the bike by grabbing hold of the cover and making my way over to the hard shoulder. As far as I am concerned this bike is a catalog of crap cheap design (it appears that all that holds this panel at the front is a crappy plastic twist screw ) and if this is the way BMW bikes are going I deffinately won't be parting with my cash for another.
Regards Paul Mac Yorkshire
Regards Paul Mac Yorkshire
laughingBob
Guest
Paul Mac said:
Sorry to hear about your incident but, the surely the side cover hadn't been secured properly in the first place. It wouldn't come undone by itself. The best way to control the bike would have been to keep your hands on the bars and pull over, would it not.
Paul Mac
Guest
Fair point about keeping both hands on the bars - BUT with the side panel flapping about onto my leg and the shock of not knowing what had happened - it's also very easy to be wise after the event.
With regard to the pastic peg securing the panel at the front I stand by what I say - This is very poor design. I don't know if this was secured properly or not, but what I would say is that this peg is at the best of times very inprecise in the way it locates in it's capture socket on the side panel. This should have been properly designed by having a screw and wing nut arrangement so that there is a positive lock at this point. It is very dangerous for the panel to blow off in this way and it is just not good enough to have this vital area secured in such a poor way. On my1150RT the panels are all secured by dome nuts and there is no way that they are going to blow off in this manner - Why have BMW gone off this sound design to the cheapo method used on the GS and other new BMW models. No for me I deeply regret not buying an 1150 Adventure with a metal tank, conventional wiring system, robust bevel drive, proper metal fittings and in my opinion a vastly superior motorcycle than the 1200 GS will ever be.
Regards Paul Mac
With regard to the pastic peg securing the panel at the front I stand by what I say - This is very poor design. I don't know if this was secured properly or not, but what I would say is that this peg is at the best of times very inprecise in the way it locates in it's capture socket on the side panel. This should have been properly designed by having a screw and wing nut arrangement so that there is a positive lock at this point. It is very dangerous for the panel to blow off in this way and it is just not good enough to have this vital area secured in such a poor way. On my1150RT the panels are all secured by dome nuts and there is no way that they are going to blow off in this manner - Why have BMW gone off this sound design to the cheapo method used on the GS and other new BMW models. No for me I deeply regret not buying an 1150 Adventure with a metal tank, conventional wiring system, robust bevel drive, proper metal fittings and in my opinion a vastly superior motorcycle than the 1200 GS will ever be.
Regards Paul Mac
laughingBob
Guest
Paul Mac said:
ktmmark
Registered user
Did the 1150 in 2002 not have a problem with the final drive .
The 1200 electrics are not a problem its a very good system if you understand how it works
as for the front fastner its easy to change if you don't like it or just take it out & use a cable tie, mine's has been fine just push firm & twist 90 degree's
i find the bike very well put together but this is just my opinion :argue
The 1200 electrics are not a problem its a very good system if you understand how it works
as for the front fastner its easy to change if you don't like it or just take it out & use a cable tie, mine's has been fine just push firm & twist 90 degree's
i find the bike very well put together but this is just my opinion :argue
Howard Millichap
Registered user
ktmmark said:
You shouldn't HAVE to change anything on a £9500 motorcycle!
By the way....nothing has fallen off my Tiger....except me that is
Howard Millichap
Registered user
DBRMan said:
Can I, at this point, suggest an extremely good alternative. The Triumph Tiger 955i.
Ottoman
Guest
"Sour Grapes"
And why not? Anyone with a little bit of sense knows that manufacturers have to draw a line as far as costs concerned.
Let me draw you a picture:
My car, (as it happens to be a BMW as well) for the last 7 years has only had one problem (climate control unit which I have repaired with the help of 50p capacitor) but during this period I have seen many Porches & Ferrari's with the bonet up waiting for the AA.
So using your impeccable logic, I should subscribe the relevant forms and ridicule them for the fools they are that they have spent all that money for their dream cars and they would have been better off buying a Robin Reliant.
To me, yes it is annoying having to replace anything but also gives me to opportunuty to change the bike a bit and make it "mine". If BMW have provided the best of everything there is and built all the bikes to the same spec, it would be a bike without a personality.
What I am trying to get to is, I, like the many other members of this forum, have made a choice and purchased this bike. Like everything in life, there is no guarantee that the final product delivered to each and every one of us will be free from defects and this is why BMW, like all manufacturers, have guarantee schemes to assist us. Please respect the choice we have made.
By all means do contribute if you have any first hand experiences with this particular machinery.
I am inclined to call your attitude and comments "sour grapes".
Like the advert says "Don't knock it before you try"
Sorry to hear that
Omer
ps. No offence intended.
Howard Millichap said:
And why not? Anyone with a little bit of sense knows that manufacturers have to draw a line as far as costs concerned.
Let me draw you a picture:
My car, (as it happens to be a BMW as well) for the last 7 years has only had one problem (climate control unit which I have repaired with the help of 50p capacitor) but during this period I have seen many Porches & Ferrari's with the bonet up waiting for the AA.
So using your impeccable logic, I should subscribe the relevant forms and ridicule them for the fools they are that they have spent all that money for their dream cars and they would have been better off buying a Robin Reliant.
To me, yes it is annoying having to replace anything but also gives me to opportunuty to change the bike a bit and make it "mine". If BMW have provided the best of everything there is and built all the bikes to the same spec, it would be a bike without a personality.
What I am trying to get to is, I, like the many other members of this forum, have made a choice and purchased this bike. Like everything in life, there is no guarantee that the final product delivered to each and every one of us will be free from defects and this is why BMW, like all manufacturers, have guarantee schemes to assist us. Please respect the choice we have made.
By all means do contribute if you have any first hand experiences with this particular machinery.
I am inclined to call your attitude and comments "sour grapes".
Like the advert says "Don't knock it before you try"
By the way....nothing has fallen off my Tiger....except me that is
Sorry to hear that
Omer
ps. No offence intended.
GSAde
Registered user
Originaly posted by Paul Mac
It's not too late Paul, you can still get an Adventure - I did - but I was fortunate enough not to have actually liked the 1200 so didn't part with my cash for it. A mate who took my place in the que (and hence got "my" 1200) has not had a trouble free machine.
Go for it
Ade
It's not too late Paul, you can still get an Adventure - I did - but I was fortunate enough not to have actually liked the 1200 so didn't part with my cash for it. A mate who took my place in the que (and hence got "my" 1200) has not had a trouble free machine.
Go for it
Ade
Paul Mac
Guest
Re Sour Grapes
Well if having owned 5 BMW Motorcycles including a 1200GS is not trying out the machinery and sour grapes - well I am sorry but you have lost me.
When I look at the build quality of my 1979 R100 RS and compare it to the 1200GS I have to say that the old bike is streets ahead. I realise that time has moved on and that all manufacturers have had ro become far more cost effective or go under. I just think that BMW used to make quality products that were built to last and I now think that due to understandable commercial pressure they have had to become more "mainstream" in order to appeal to a broader and younger type of buyer. The 1200GS under the guise of weight saving is to me a motorcycle that has been built to a price and has some design compromises built into it. This has to be at the request of the accountants as I honestly don't believe that BMW engineers by choice, would design some of the poor items that are to be found on this bike. A prime example of this concept is the Can Bus controller on top of the fuel tank where there is a water trap around the area of the electrical connections to the fuel pump. This area fills with water when washing the bike or riding through a rainstorm. YES I know the connections are waterproofed - BUT I also know that water and electrics don't mix and eventually the water seals will be compromised and cause problems. Surely it would have been much better to design this water trap out of the bike or if that wasn't possible provide a drain for the water to escape. Also the sealed for life bevel box with oil that can't be changed and is in for the life of the unit. Well I want to see a drain plug and a way of replacing the oil as I just don't trust or accept that is how an enduro motorcycle should be.
Maybe I am just old fashioned and wanting something that these days is never going to be - but I also hate the concept that just because it's new and the latest design that it is better than what went before. If though, this is how it has to be in order for BMW to survive making motorcycles then of course I accept it because they are at the end of the day - still great bikes!!
Regards Paul Mac
Well if having owned 5 BMW Motorcycles including a 1200GS is not trying out the machinery and sour grapes - well I am sorry but you have lost me.
When I look at the build quality of my 1979 R100 RS and compare it to the 1200GS I have to say that the old bike is streets ahead. I realise that time has moved on and that all manufacturers have had ro become far more cost effective or go under. I just think that BMW used to make quality products that were built to last and I now think that due to understandable commercial pressure they have had to become more "mainstream" in order to appeal to a broader and younger type of buyer. The 1200GS under the guise of weight saving is to me a motorcycle that has been built to a price and has some design compromises built into it. This has to be at the request of the accountants as I honestly don't believe that BMW engineers by choice, would design some of the poor items that are to be found on this bike. A prime example of this concept is the Can Bus controller on top of the fuel tank where there is a water trap around the area of the electrical connections to the fuel pump. This area fills with water when washing the bike or riding through a rainstorm. YES I know the connections are waterproofed - BUT I also know that water and electrics don't mix and eventually the water seals will be compromised and cause problems. Surely it would have been much better to design this water trap out of the bike or if that wasn't possible provide a drain for the water to escape. Also the sealed for life bevel box with oil that can't be changed and is in for the life of the unit. Well I want to see a drain plug and a way of replacing the oil as I just don't trust or accept that is how an enduro motorcycle should be.
Maybe I am just old fashioned and wanting something that these days is never going to be - but I also hate the concept that just because it's new and the latest design that it is better than what went before. If though, this is how it has to be in order for BMW to survive making motorcycles then of course I accept it because they are at the end of the day - still great bikes!!
Regards Paul Mac
Ottoman
Guest
Re Sour Grapes
Paul,
I am not defending the build qualities of the bike. Far from it, but I refuse to accept criticizm from someone who does not own a same brand motorcycle and does nothing but rubbishes the bike. As I said, I value the experiences of the fellow GS riders be it good or bad and take preventive actions where necessary.
I am sure Mr. Millichap is a wonderful person but I just wish he stop his insidious remarks on these forums and sort his issues with BMW directly.
All the best
Omer.
Paul,
I am not defending the build qualities of the bike. Far from it, but I refuse to accept criticizm from someone who does not own a same brand motorcycle and does nothing but rubbishes the bike. As I said, I value the experiences of the fellow GS riders be it good or bad and take preventive actions where necessary.
I am sure Mr. Millichap is a wonderful person but I just wish he stop his insidious remarks on these forums and sort his issues with BMW directly.
All the best
Omer.
Howard Millichap
Registered user
Re: Re Sour Grapes
I owned a 1991 R100GS for 7 years. I suffered BMW indifference for 7 years. I bought the bike because a friend of mine has a 1987 R80GS and loves it. I quickly found out that the quality of the bike I bought was nothing like his bike. Indeed BMW increased the engine output but did Effall else and consequently every component in the transmission/driveshaft area suffered failures earlier than SHOULD be expected from a BMW.
BMW mechanic said to me :- "you won't get more than 30K from a gearbox before a rebuild"
Imagine them sayiing that to the owner of a "5" series car!
It took them until 2001 to send out a letter to owners to tell them to have their drive shaft checked for bearing play. I WAS ON MY 3rd SHAFT BY THEN !!! Can you imagine the damage that could be done by complete drive shaft failure? This was reported to BMW the world over but they refused to acknowledge that there was a fault. I heared (via the grape vine) last year that EVENTUALLY they discovered that the grease seals in the U/J bearings were affected by gearbox oil so the grease in the U/Js fell out and the bearings failed prematurely. Did they refund the price of 3 shafts? Ha, Ha, Ha, out of warranty mate, Bye!
Ottoman said:
I owned a 1991 R100GS for 7 years. I suffered BMW indifference for 7 years. I bought the bike because a friend of mine has a 1987 R80GS and loves it. I quickly found out that the quality of the bike I bought was nothing like his bike. Indeed BMW increased the engine output but did Effall else and consequently every component in the transmission/driveshaft area suffered failures earlier than SHOULD be expected from a BMW.
BMW mechanic said to me :- "you won't get more than 30K from a gearbox before a rebuild"
Imagine them sayiing that to the owner of a "5" series car!
It took them until 2001 to send out a letter to owners to tell them to have their drive shaft checked for bearing play. I WAS ON MY 3rd SHAFT BY THEN !!! Can you imagine the damage that could be done by complete drive shaft failure? This was reported to BMW the world over but they refused to acknowledge that there was a fault. I heared (via the grape vine) last year that EVENTUALLY they discovered that the grease seals in the U/J bearings were affected by gearbox oil so the grease in the U/Js fell out and the bearings failed prematurely. Did they refund the price of 3 shafts? Ha, Ha, Ha, out of warranty mate, Bye!
Howard Millichap
Registered user
Re: Re Sour Grapes
Still asking top money for them though!
Paul Mac said:
Still asking top money for them though!
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