Cam chain tensioner s

LOL speed limit sign in Texas. :D








Just a few things I’ve learned about the 06 and earlier Twin Cam tensioners that you may already be aware of.

When the plastic tensioner shoe wears through to the metal backing plate what’s remaining of the shoe will fragment apart, the chunks can lodge in the oil pump and passages which starves the engine of oil causing serious engine damage.

The more difficult to inspect inner tensioner shoe wears through around 25% sooner than the outer one.

How long (miles) until the inner shoe is worn thin enough to start breaking varies quite a bit, seemingly as soon as 25,000 miles to as long as 50 or even 70,000 miles. It varies this much for a couple reasons. One is the smoothness of the cam chains vary from batch to batch depending on the wear of the stamping dies. Another is the amount of air voids in the plastic material forming the shoe. If you look at Pingu’s photo of the worn shoe you’ll see the micro bubbles that remained in the plastic from the injection moulding. My understanding is the shoe moulding procedure and material was changed some years back to eliminate the micro voids.

Retro fitting Harley’s hydraulic tensioner upgrade which includes a higher flow oil pump may be the best option long term. However simply replacing the worn spring tensioner shoes with the latest ones made with better plastic is an upgrade. Also while wearing out the original shoes the chain will have been polished smoother, so once replaced they should be good for a long time. Maybe check them again after another 50K.

Pingu's looks like a spring failure?. I think all TC engines including car's need to have the pads changed on tensioner's, its a bit like cam belts on my 944 or indeed a Ducati, not as often as belts but they should still be considered a service, item all be it long intervals / milage.
My 110 TC is a late 09 model with the hydraulic lifters, better than the springs I think, but still needing pad maintenance at say 30 k miles.
When I change my oil in spring I'll put in the full synth expensive SE stuff from Harley, only to try and improve lubrication and pad life through the lifters. Maybe a waste of money and perhaps ordinary 20/50 multi would cut it but synth may help long term. Bikes only got 2.5 k miles so ordinarily I wouldn't use synthetic yet.
It's never going to do massive miles anyway.
 
You may mock!!

But the twin cams are already falling by the roadside while this old lady just keeps running

<iframe src="http://www.flickr.com/photos/david_nimrod/12140407473/in/photostream/player/" width="500" height="338" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen webkitallowfullscreen mozallowfullscreen oallowfullscreen msallowfullscreen></iframe>
 
Regarding the porous shoes I was referring to Pingu's second photo, but you're right Captain the spring looks bad in the initial photo. You can check yours at 30K if you want but I really doubt they'll be worn anywhere close to needing replaced. I've not paid particular attention to the SE 110 motors but I haven't heard of failures or even anyone advising regular inspection on 96" and 103" motors since using the hydraulic tensioners. They put a lot less force against the chain than the spring ones do.
I'm thinking the SE bikes come from the factory filled with synthetic oil so may as well stick with it.
 
You may mock!!

But the twin cams are already falling by the roadside while this old lady just keeps running

<iframe src="http://www.flickr.com/photos/david_nimrod/12140407473/in/photostream/player/" width="500" height="338" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen webkitallowfullscreen mozallowfullscreen oallowfullscreen msallowfullscreen></iframe>

They're not falling by the roadside, ( hydraulic lifters anyway) they're pulling over and doing a roadside small service, while waiting for the Evo cruisers to catch up.:cool:
 
Regarding the porous shoes I was referring to Pingu's second photo, but you're right Captain the spring looks bad in the initial photo. You can check yours at 30K if you want but I really doubt they'll be worn anywhere close to needing replaced. I've not paid particular attention to the SE 110 motors but I haven't heard of failures or even anyone advising regular inspection on 96" and 103" motors since using the hydraulic tensioners. They put a lot less force against the chain than the spring ones do.
I'm thinking the SE bikes come from the factory filled with synthetic oil so may as well stick with it.

I've read a bit on U.S. forums and lots of opinion on the 110 motors. Seems pre 08 had some issues with rear cylinder head gaskets and overheating. It maybe further down the road before we know what issues the tensioner pads have over here, low milage bikes usually in the U.K. due too crap weather. :rolleyes:
Unless your reading about 09 and older CVO 110's racking up the big miles ?
I'll just do my over generous synth oil changes on my SE 09 Fatbob and hope tat helps. ;)
 
Crap weather!!! Didn't bother my evo in slightest!!

So about this "rorting past evo's" perhaps that should be amended to "rorting past evo's as long there isn't a cloud in the sky, there's been no salt for at least 4 months, the weather forecast has put it in writing that there's no chance of rain for a week before" and "were not going more than 5 miles from home" :D
 
The spring in the first picture is the only thing in good nick! The 'bike had, to be fair done 50k of hard miles. The thing is a workhorse and has never had the tensioners checked. When all said, he got away lightly.
My observation is that the inner wears less than the outer ( in contrast to Clintons observation). I put that down to far less slack/whip to deal with on the inner.
Servicing/replacing just the tensioners is not a difficult expensive job. A hydraulic conversion will run you what ? £7-800 ? Tensioners are £65 a pop....
Ps The 110 will blow up at will..........best you sell it to me at a fair price?:D
 
Crap weather!!! Didn't bother my evo in slightest!!

So about this "rorting past evo's" perhaps that should be amended to "rorting past evo's as long there isn't a cloud in the sky, there's been no salt for at least 4 months, the weather forecast has put it in writing that there's no chance of rain for a week before" and "were not going more than 5 miles from home" :D



...............and? :D
 
Crap weather!!! Didn't bother my evo in slightest!!

So about this "rorting past evo's" perhaps that should be amended to "rorting past evo's as long there isn't a cloud in the sky, there's been no salt for at least 4 months, the weather forecast has put it in writing that there's no chance of rain for a week before" and "were not going more than 5 miles from home" :D

Riding around in the depths of winter slowly in your duffle coat and knitted gloves is not cool.:blast
Summer rain is one thing, winter sludge and salt is another.
The only plus point riding an Evo in winter is the undoubtedly good traction at the rear wheel in cold conditions due to extremely low power delivery. :D
 
The spring in the first picture is the only thing in good nick! The 'bike had, to be fair done 50k of hard miles. The thing is a workhorse and has never had the tensioners checked. When all said, he got away lightly.
My observation is that the inner wears less than the outer ( in contrast to Clintons observation). I put that down to far less slack/whip to deal with on the inner.
Servicing/replacing just the tensioners is not a difficult expensive job. A hydraulic conversion will run you what ? £7-800 ? Tensioners are £65 a pop....
Ps The 110 will blow up at will..........best you sell it to me at a fair price?:D

Bit like shagging 10 beautiful women or 20 ugly ones. I'll take my chances with the 110. :D
Mines got hydraulic lifters anyway so no 800 bunk up. ;)
 
Yeah....but it's got the cheap and nasty cams running straight in the cam plate...just like the old Honda 125s......are you sure you don't want me to make an offer ? :D


I love the Honda 125's those babies go forever :D
 
Been thinking about why, in my experience, the outer ( primary) cam chain tensioner wears more quickly than the inner (secondary) and had a bit of a "doh!:blast " moment. I used to think it was because of more slack in the primary. Of course the primary chain travels faster than the secondary doesn't it? So for each engine rev, the primary chain has traveled " further" over the tensioner. The ratio being the difference between the outer sprocket and the inner sprocket on the rear camshaft. I reckon, using nothing more scientific than looking at pictures, the ratio isn't far off 2:1...... I know this doesn't hold much interest to folks on here...but it's been nagging away at me.......:P
 
Interesting, that would make sense. The few people I know that have changed them told me their inner one was more worn. When I asked when, and how I should go about checking them on my 04 the dealer mechanic said "anytime after 20K but definitely before 30K, the inner one is difficult to see but be sure to check it, don't assume if the outer shoe is good the inner will be also".
When I ordered my 2009 FLHT I sold the 04 FXDXI to a friend. I did disclose he should have them checked next time he had it serviced. At the 20K service they found them pretty worn so he let them install the upgraded hydraulic tensioners along with a SE204 cam. The following year he asked if I wanted to buy it back? I had regretted selling it in the first place so I jumped at the opportunity.
 
Been thinking about why, in my experience, the outer ( primary) cam chain tensioner wears more quickly than the inner (secondary) and had a bit of a "doh!:blast " moment. I used to think it was because of more slack in the primary. Of course the primary chain travels faster than the secondary doesn't it? So for each engine rev, the primary chain has traveled " further" over the tensioner. The ratio being the difference between the outer sprocket and the inner sprocket on the rear camshaft. I reckon, using nothing more scientific than looking at pictures, the ratio isn't far off 2:1...... I know this doesn't hold much interest to folks on here...but it's been nagging away at me.......:P


Pingu, why do you say in your OP to check pre 06 Dyn and pre 07 TC only ? Or do you mean check them all after those dates further down the time and mileage road ?

For what is a pretty basic, all be it big V twin motor there full of twists and turns seemingly. :blast
 
Pingu, why do you say in your OP to check pre 06 Dyn and pre 07 TC only ? Or do you mean check them all after those dates further down the time and mileage road ?


Do I now detect a certain paranoi creeping in..? Excellent...my work here is done..:P

.........all be it big V twin motor there full of twists and..... :blast

That'll be the (non-rebuildable) crankshaft pulling out of true..........










Just kidding. The sort of mileage you're doing, I'd just forget about it all.........unless you hear any strange noises......or feel any increase in vibes.......:D
 
Do I now detect a certain paranoi creeping in..? Excellent...my work here is done..:P



That'll be the (non-rebuildable) crankshaft pulling out of true..........










Just kidding. The sort of mileage you're doing, I'd just forget about it all.........unless you hear any strange noises......or feel any increase in vibes.......:D

Very good....:D

I'm just trying to learn about these big daft lumps.
Think I need to find a photo blow up of the various engines so I can grasp the differences a bit more.
 


Back
Top Bottom