D6
Registered user
carbs, new ignition, man hours,(not everyone, i know) dyno time,(if its to be done properly ) could be a big bill for around 6 rwhp and a bit of torque?
Carbs on 1100's... DIY fantasy??
- Thread starter Wrigsby1
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carbs, new ignition, man hours,(not everyone, i know) dyno time,(if its to be done properly ) could be a big bill for around 6 rwhp and a bit of torque?
if for some reason you wanted to keep the standard ignition[conversion in 2 stages because of money?]you could go with 41mm FCRs as they make them with provision for a TPS.Dellorto and Mikuni also make TPS compatible carbs.Personally would not go wih Bings,think the reason people use them is because they fit the standard inlet stub/intake tube and there is airhead cables you can use,not the most reliable carbs in the world
D6
Registered user
how much are 41mm fcr,s with tps fittings?
D6 I dont want to do it for an increase in performance but for reliability.My 1100 is running with 1150rt top ends,motronic,TBs and the standard 1100 intake tubes.Its a noticeable real world improvement.I went this way because the BMW engineers know what they are doing and its a lot less hassle than power commander/chip etc,no set up time.I needed to replace the loom in any case as the heater circiut went on the FI and it caught fire.
D6
Registered user
so carbs are more reliable than a r1100gs injection system?
D6
Registered user
dyno,s between 15 and 25 quid a run, say 3 runs, ?
or, stick the bike on the af meter at your local car mot shop,?and leave the dyno,
so now we are looking at £300 mark , for swappin to carbs which is now reasonable,
some of the others were looking around 600ish
or, stick the bike on the af meter at your local car mot shop,?and leave the dyno,
so now we are looking at £300 mark , for swappin to carbs which is now reasonable,
some of the others were looking around 600ish
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Being a rich gentleman, I simply took the bike to scrimmingers..left it for a week and had it delivered back home
Seriously, the bike is a different animal than ther fuel inj OE ( even leaks petrol onto the boot on the odd occasion
).
It is fun to spend on your pride and joy and have something different from the masses...but the real reason is in the performance...so so SO much better than injection and you can ride at 1 foot per hour if you so wish without any surging etc. Starts on the button and gives about 20% more bhp ( Thunder has the rolling road printouts ) for about the same or slightly better fuel consumption.
I thoroughly recommend the mod...pricey, yes, but if the bike is a keeper, then well worth it because I genuinely believe it is probably the best GS you can own when set up like this. Even IMHO the carbs look better !!
I've owned lots of airheads and love them to death ( and a previous R1100GS inj ) and this genuinely is like an airhead on steroids ( best way to sum it up ) and it obviously handles better than any airhead etc etc
So much rubbish is posted about the mod hence my not always joining in...and many so called mechanics may know the theory but can't do the job in practice......but if you want a much MUCH better bike, then go for it
Horses for courses
Seriously, the bike is a different animal than ther fuel inj OE ( even leaks petrol onto the boot on the odd occasion
). It is fun to spend on your pride and joy and have something different from the masses...but the real reason is in the performance...so so SO much better than injection and you can ride at 1 foot per hour if you so wish without any surging etc. Starts on the button and gives about 20% more bhp ( Thunder has the rolling road printouts ) for about the same or slightly better fuel consumption.
I thoroughly recommend the mod...pricey, yes, but if the bike is a keeper, then well worth it because I genuinely believe it is probably the best GS you can own when set up like this. Even IMHO the carbs look better !!
I've owned lots of airheads and love them to death ( and a previous R1100GS inj ) and this genuinely is like an airhead on steroids ( best way to sum it up ) and it obviously handles better than any airhead etc etc
So much rubbish is posted about the mod hence my not always joining in...and many so called mechanics may know the theory but can't do the job in practice......but if you want a much MUCH better bike, then go for it
Horses for courses
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...oh and no pics of the under tank gumminses/carb jettings/drillings etc as respect for Steve Scrimmingers (vast) research and development time and expense 
At least give the bloke a call if you are interested....he has done all the work/investigations for you !
At least give the bloke a call if you are interested....he has done all the work/investigations for you !
Really think AFM is the way to go to keep costs down.They sell them with lambdas that will fit our bikes M18x1.5(eg bosch).Should not be to hard to set up as you can ride and see whats going on and what effect any changes have had.Remember the cost is reduced by selling the bits no longer needed.My plan now is to gather data on what carb is used on what(eg KTM EXC 41mmFCR,yzf 450 39mm FCR-MX etc)Another avenue worth looking into might be the USA,I wonderwhat the standard harley carbs they always changed were?Definitely a way of doing this on the cheap,just a matter of finding the right recipe!
D6
Registered user
if you have the money,...oh and no pics of the under tank gumminses/carb jettings/drillings etc as respect for Steve Scrimmingers (vast) research and development time and expense
At least give the bloke a call if you are interested....he has done all the work/investigations for you !
20% is very good, is that a healthy well set up injection with no faults bike, against a carb bike?
Kenny,cheers for posting this.Your bike looks excellent and the carbs do look good .Well done Steve Scrimmenger for sorting it out,you are absolutely correct to protect the guys work.I would like to call in and talk to him(i will take a bottle),might buy some stuff off him but unfortunately will not have the money to pay someone else to do it.If you have a printout to shut the naysayers up that would be great.Cheers
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Scrimmingers labour is only £250..that is ride in and ride out, fully sorted..the rest of the cost is obviously parts and VAT. Well WELL worth the £250 to save all the hassle and costs of unused parts through trial and error
The OE Bing carbs are set up perfect for low and midrange torque ..Mikunis are more for the R1100S as these produce power higher up the rev band
The OE Bing carbs are set up perfect for low and midrange torque ..Mikunis are more for the R1100S as these produce power higher up the rev band
roddy
Registered user
Buell and possibly Harleys use this style of carb, however the recommended carb if you where upgrading them was to go for the Mizuki one's
Kenny did a great write up after his mod that got us all salivating...
I have looked into it and have initially found that getting the bits + setting up would not leave you too shy of the SED price if you take away his labour. I also looked at carbs 2nd hand but their was a little rush on Bing 40's after the chat about conversions...
I also emailed Mr SED as he is a good guy for advice and general helpfulness but is also extrememly busy. He rebuild my M94 gearbox and i know that he is also very good VFM to boot.
As I don't usually "go expensive" on my bike I haven't though about the direct SED route but know that it would be a very well modded bike with an engineers detail finish. Also my 11 GS is not quite as tidy as Kenny's...
If you have a good seat of the pants dyno from BM's and a range of other bikes you will know that the main part of many bikes especially twins is to have a strong pulling low and mid range... In standard tune the R11's need revving over 2.5/3k and go a little flat in the midrange. This is also shown on Dyno runs.
I had an 11GS in the early 2000's that I took to Superchip which along with some other popular mods made it a fantastic bike but they still found it hard to fill the midrange fully. If you find the original dyno runs on here from Thunder i think, re the carb mod, you will see a large hike in the midrange which in unachievable by tuning the Motronic.
At the mo i have settled for the more open set up that is popular and fitting a cheap chip to richen things slightly where the bike naturally runs lean and which is probably slightly exaggerated by the open set up. All chips do is play with the duration of the injection and the ignition advance and they are cheap as a part but more expensive in the set up, just like carbs.
There is no real "cheap" way to replicate Kenny's set up and if you want the same idea of performance and reliability then you may as well go the whole hog.
I went away and completely serviced my injection set up and this has also made a massive difference. My bike now runs very smoothly and has a strong low and mid range for a Motronic bike. As with a carb set up you have to persevere if you want to do it yourself and setting up carbs, especially CV's can take a fair bit of messing.
As a caveat... my present GS had never been a smooth slow runner despite all the usual service work, I rode a R100 Mystic last summer and wondered how carbs could feel so much better in the lower revs, ans I know from experience that many mechanics will only go through "the usual" with your bike rather than explore many of the set up checks you will read on here. Also apart from the show stopper HES, Motronic is usually very reliable...
Also and this is a big also, if you are happy with your bike don't bother.....
I'm glad Kenny chipped in (geddit) as he has had it done and knows the difference and is not speculating...
I have looked into it and have initially found that getting the bits + setting up would not leave you too shy of the SED price if you take away his labour. I also looked at carbs 2nd hand but their was a little rush on Bing 40's after the chat about conversions...
I also emailed Mr SED as he is a good guy for advice and general helpfulness but is also extrememly busy. He rebuild my M94 gearbox and i know that he is also very good VFM to boot.
As I don't usually "go expensive" on my bike I haven't though about the direct SED route but know that it would be a very well modded bike with an engineers detail finish. Also my 11 GS is not quite as tidy as Kenny's...
If you have a good seat of the pants dyno from BM's and a range of other bikes you will know that the main part of many bikes especially twins is to have a strong pulling low and mid range... In standard tune the R11's need revving over 2.5/3k and go a little flat in the midrange. This is also shown on Dyno runs.
I had an 11GS in the early 2000's that I took to Superchip which along with some other popular mods made it a fantastic bike but they still found it hard to fill the midrange fully. If you find the original dyno runs on here from Thunder i think, re the carb mod, you will see a large hike in the midrange which in unachievable by tuning the Motronic.
At the mo i have settled for the more open set up that is popular and fitting a cheap chip to richen things slightly where the bike naturally runs lean and which is probably slightly exaggerated by the open set up. All chips do is play with the duration of the injection and the ignition advance and they are cheap as a part but more expensive in the set up, just like carbs.
There is no real "cheap" way to replicate Kenny's set up and if you want the same idea of performance and reliability then you may as well go the whole hog.
I went away and completely serviced my injection set up and this has also made a massive difference. My bike now runs very smoothly and has a strong low and mid range for a Motronic bike. As with a carb set up you have to persevere if you want to do it yourself and setting up carbs, especially CV's can take a fair bit of messing.
As a caveat... my present GS had never been a smooth slow runner despite all the usual service work, I rode a R100 Mystic last summer and wondered how carbs could feel so much better in the lower revs, ans I know from experience that many mechanics will only go through "the usual" with your bike rather than explore many of the set up checks you will read on here. Also apart from the show stopper HES, Motronic is usually very reliable...
Also and this is a big also, if you are happy with your bike don't bother.....
I'm glad Kenny chipped in (geddit
) as he has had it done and knows the difference and is not speculating...
If any of you boys are interested, have bunged this on e-bay classifieds today. http://www.ukgser.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2622279&postcount=1
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