Clacks , Crunches, or cant get Neutral

I'm still undecided about my shifting. Sometimes perfect, sometimes rough, especially going from 2 to 3. The fact that it is sometimes perfect makes me think that there is a way to do it "right" but I have not been able to figure it out. Any thoughts?
 
gear changes

HI ,mine has done 2700 miles now mainly on a/b roads ,and gears are no better ,tried the earlier thread about reducing the oil level in the clutch master cylinder, but no different !! as some other reports sometimes you get good clean changes then other you dread to think what is happening in the gearbox still waiting for a reply from Jefferies and BMW on course of action , really spoils riding an otherwise e great bike .
 
Finding neutral on a motorcycle is a common issue with all makes of bikes.

With the BMW dry clutch you just had to let the clutch engage slightly to turn the gear box and then try again, it is the same when putting the bike into first gear, never an issue once you know the trick.

My LC 'clacks' into first and there is no way around this, but many wet clutch bikes do this so it is not a fault just a characteristic.

All other gear changes on the LC are fine, slight notchiness perhaps but no more than any other bike that I have ridden - most motorcycle gearboxes have false neutrals which are potentially dangerous - my LC has never hit a false neutral or jumped out of gear.

To select neutral on the LC just let the clutch lever out slightly and then pull it in again, sometimes it will pop up to second if I was in 1st and sometimes into 1st if I was in 2nd, but the mildest touch of the gear lever puts it back to neutral without drama.
 
Engineer said:
Finding neutral on a motorcycle is a common issue with all makes of bikes.

No one told me That the last 60 bikes have been fine!

With the BMW dry clutch you just had to let the clutch engage slightly to turn the gear box and then try again, it is the same when putting the bike into first gear, never an issue once you know the trick.

Bugger the last Seven BMW I had didn't need that they all must have been dud!

My LC 'clacks' into first and there is no way around this, but many wet clutch bikes do this so it is not a fault just a characteristic.

Bugger again the other three bikes in the garage have wet clutches and none of them go Clack !

All other gear changes on the LC are fine, slight notchiness perhaps but no more than any other bike that I have ridden - most motorcycle gearboxes have false neutrals which are potentially dangerous - my LC has never hit a false neutral or jumped out of gear.

Mine are fine 90% of time then crunch

To select neutral on the LC just let the clutch lever out slightly and then pull it in again, sometimes it will pop up to second if I was in 1st and sometimes into 1st if I was in 2nd, but the mildest touch of the gear lever puts it back to neutral without drama

To select neutral on any bike all you should have to do is pull the clutch in no fafing around

If it popping up to second the clutch is dragging take it back!

.
Click to expand...


Sorry Engineer you sound like a Bl**dy BM Dealer
 
Can we all please just stick to the facts.

THE GEAR CHANGE IS SHITE AND NEEDS FIXING

that way we can get away from all the misleading speculation
 
gearchange problems

Hi ,you guys ,my dealer has now requested that I take it in next week ,to check the clutch master cylinder for sticking ?? this must have come from BMW ,but don't think this is the problem ,but will update when done.
 
These are my bikes, The 13 is back with BMW I hope they have a solution otherwise its dejavu 2007 K1200GT all over again.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/YCmRAiECCGI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 
patzx12 said:
These are my bikes, The 13 is back with BMW I hope they have a solution otherwise its dejavu 2007 K1200GT all over again.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/YCmRAiECCGI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Click to expand...

SHITE NOT RIGHT:confused:
 
Wet vs Dry

The video comparison is like comparing an apple with an orange.

First the resistance test, dry clutch will have none as the clutch plate is not in contact with any friction surface. Wet clutch is will drag especially when cold as oil has striction so there is drag and the drive will still be going into the box.

So in the dry clutch there is no rotation in the box , wet clutch there is ! Rotation means that you will get the mess sound. in fact I would suspect that on the ground with the rear wheel stopped from rotation you would have a bit less noise. Wet clutch will always drag and when cold will make it harder to get neutral and gears.

I have followed this thread and started to watch the reaction on my bike. I'd say the following:-

Neutral easy to get , 1st gear clunks if I change as soon as clutch in. First to 2nd clunks when cold. Other than this the box is excellent. Down changes are in fact better than my Ducati Multi Strada. I have just finished a ride through the city and paid attention to the box and my ability to get neutral etc, for me I'm well pleased. I have found all bikes have the best method of change so I'm unsure if I've adapted but so far so good.
 
Can I ask a daft question......

Mineral oil, would the change to using this over DOT4 style brake/clutch fluid have any bearing on the issue.

Why is this being used ?

I had a go on an 1190 KTM and noticed that's using mineral oil for the clutch too so, I know it's not unique. Just never had this before on any previous bike.
 
jonnyp said:
Can I ask a daft question......

Mineral oil, would the change to using this over DOT4 style brake/clutch fluid have any bearing on the issue.

Why is this being used ?

I had a go on an 1190 KTM and noticed that's using mineral oil for the clutch too so, I know it's not unique. Just never had this before on any previous bike.
Click to expand...

The seals used are specific to the fluid used you cannot swop from one to the other.

Why a maker chooses one type over another I'm not sure but in the case of brakes it's to do with the boiling point of the fluid itself I believe.

BTW I don't think it would make any difference what fluid was used all are incompressible. Water would work fine if corrosion and boiling were not issues.
 
Thanks for that Magon, I understand your reasons.

Still interested as to why the swap over.

I had a Citroen many years ago with that pump up suspension. That used LHM fluid for both brakes and suspension. Wonder if this is similar stuff.

I'll RTFM.......
 
jonnyp said:
Can I ask a daft question......

Mineral oil, would the change to using this over DOT4 style brake/clutch fluid have any bearing on the issue.

Why is this being used ?

I had a go on an 1190 KTM and noticed that's using mineral oil for the clutch too so, I know it's not unique. Just never had this before on any previous bike.
Click to expand...

Virtually all Magura clutch systems use mineral oil because typically a leaking clutch slave 'O' ring contaminates the engine oil.:thumb
 
Bails said:
The video comparison is like comparing an apple with an orange.

First the resistance test, dry clutch will have none as the clutch plate is not in contact with any friction surface. Wet clutch is will drag especially when cold as oil has striction so there is drag and the drive will still be going into the box.

So in the dry clutch there is no rotation in the box , wet clutch there is ! Rotation means that you will get the mess sound. in fact I would suspect that on the ground with the rear wheel stopped from rotation you would have a bit less noise. Wet clutch will always drag and when cold will make it harder to get neutral and gears.

I have followed this thread and started to watch the reaction on my bike. I'd say the following:-

Neutral easy to get , 1st gear clunks if I change as soon as clutch in. First to 2nd clunks when cold. Other than this the box is excellent. Down changes are in fact better than my Ducati Multi Strada. I have just finished a ride through the city and paid attention to the box and my ability to get neutral etc, for me I'm well pleased. I have found all bikes have the best method of change so I'm unsure if I've adapted but so far so good.
Click to expand...

I will have to do a comparison with my 82 wet clutch CBX1000 \ LC
 
Magnon said:
http://forums.mtbr.com/brake-time/dot-brake-fluid-vs-mineral-oil-49174.html


I know this relates to hydraulic push bike brakes but fluid is discussed and you should find it of interest (I did)
Click to expand...

Yes, interesting. I know this needs some more looking in too and I very much doubt this has anything to do with the clutch issues some are facing. However I found one link to a Shell page which seems to infer the upper operating temp is 70c and the viscosity of the fluid changes a reasonable amount over the temp range. Wish I'd paid more attention in rheology classes!

http://www.lubricants.com/BuyersGuide/HydraulicOil/ShellNaturelleHF-M46.php
 
Do the patzx12 test in the showroom before buying the bike. if there is a non BMW wet plate clutch bike in the parking lot, do the same test on that. My bike was warm at the time but my TC was cold
 
First I should say that I am happy with my new bike. I don't use neutral so talk of clonks into first from neutral or difficulty finding neutral don't worry me. I tried the neutral to 2nd gear on the centre stand as seen on the video and the gearbox makes the same gear noise if gently lift the lever, but if I pull it up sharply then it goes in with a reassuring clunk.

I have just done a clutch drag measurement on mine using a luggage weighing device as can be seen in the photo. The bike was left in 1st for a couple of days therefore this is a worst case cold engine first operation test. I put a piece of wire around the wheel so I would be measuring at the radius of the wheel and then strapped the clutch in and within 20 seconds measured the force required to move the rear wheel at a constant slow speed.

This was about 5kg.

I then warmed the engine a bit on the centre stand. The engine temp showed 72 degrees. I tested again and it didn't seem to make any difference to the force required.

The force required in neutral was about 1kg.

Turning the wheel by hand with the clutch in was smooth and showed no variations or tight spots.

Anybody else want to try this measurement and post the results, perhaps on other makes of bikes as well?

PS. Before anyone points it out, force is actually measured in newtons which is 9.8 x kg.
 

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