Clacks , Crunches, or cant get Neutral

My WC makes similar noises to the video. So f.cking what. I have been riding for over 40 yrs ( I'm 63) and probably have more miles and experience that a lot of the Tossers on this site. The WC is the best bike by far in all my bikes. So the box is noisy, however it works! Started out on a Norton Jubilee, once through oil system!! - oil tank to drive-.

Triumph, pre-unit, you were pleased if you actually got a gear!!

FFS you only need to worry when a) you can"t select a gear, b) it jumps out of gear. Otherwise deal with it. BMW never said that the LC has the smoothest and quietest gear change of any bike.

Listen to my Harley, wet clutch and bloody great big clunk as it goes into first, plus clonks up and down the box, but at least you know its in gear.

We've all forgotten about the character of bikes and become pussies.

Gear changing for idiots

1. pull in clutch
2. adjust revs accordingly
3. firmly lift gear lever up or down
4. let out clutch.

How difficult is that.

Flame away:aidan
 
@ Benhur - this is encouraging. This is where Im taking my bike on Tuesday morning.
If anyone else doubting the crappiness of this box wants to meet me there 8am, take my bike for a ride and see for yourself!!!

@ iandavid - completely agree! Its just getting on my nerves; BMW said they will try and rectify it, and I also like the fact that I get the oil changed too as a bonus!
 
This thread beggars belief.
There are half arsed opinions from technical riding experts, gnarly old timers who have more miles and bikes under their belts than most on this site (got to love the arrogance of that :rolleyes: ) and simple owners who want their bikes to work as they think they should. I bought 'Bike' magazine today and the summary of their long term test bike was 'great but the gearbox is crap' (I paraphrase).

For Christ's sake, were talking about BMW's flagship 2013 bike not a hand change Harley from the dawn of time. To say that the gear change issues are down to technique are equivalent to BMW saying that gearchange issues on (say) the M5 car are down to the driver moving the gearlever too fast - can you see them getting away with that?

It's nearly 2014 - bikes should be getting easier to use, not harder. Changing gear is a fundamental requirement and shouldn't require 'riding god' technique and timing - it should (as has been previously noted on this thread) be as simple as clutch in, gear, clutch out. There should be no need to make allowances for the gearbox /clutch on a modern, mainstream tourer (which is what the GS is).

My half arsed opinion - it's a fundamental design issue. Constant mesh gearboxes are admittedly tricky things to design - you can't just stop shaft rotation between gearchanges because the dogs might not mesh, so you have to design in a shaft deceleration curve which allows the dogs a fighting chance of engaging, while being slow enough to snick in without crunching. Tricky but not impossible by any means - many manufacturers (including BMW) have managed it quite successfully in the past. To me it sounds like a clutch drag problem - shaft rotation speed is still too high at the gearchange point. This might be down to the clutch design, gear dog geometry or clutch actuation (or a combination).

The fact that 'solutions' are being tried means that there is a tacit admission that there is a problem but different oil / pushrod changes are probably attempts to fix it cheaply... To fix it properly might require replacement clutch slave / master cylinders, clutches or (God forbid) new gearbox internals. It's almost guaranteed that hell will freeze over before this happens as it would amount to an admission that BMW fecked up and would trigger worldwide recalls - massively costly and embarrassing. That said, you can guarantee that there are some pretty serious meetings taking place in Bavaria. I'd guess that there will be an attempt to correct the problems with the release of the GSA and hope that the GS owners will give up complaining and go away...
 
MattW said:
This thread beggars belief.
There are half arsed opinions from technical riding experts, gnarly old timers who have more miles and bikes under their belts than most on this site (got to love the arrogance of that :rolleyes: ) and simple owners who want their bikes to work as they think they should. I bought 'Bike' magazine today and the summary of their long term test bike was 'great but the gearbox is crap' (I paraphrase).

For Christ's sake, were talking about BMW's flagship 2013 bike not a hand change Harley from the dawn of time. To say that the gear change issues are down to technique are equivalent to BMW saying that gearchange issues on (say) the M5 car are down to the driver moving the gearlever too fast - can you see them getting away with that?

It's nearly 2014 - bikes should be getting easier to use, not harder. Changing gear is a fundamental requirement and shouldn't require 'riding god' technique and timing - it should (as has been previously noted on this thread) be as simple as clutch in, gear, clutch out. There should be no need to make allowances for the gearbox /clutch on a modern, mainstream tourer (which is what the GS is).

My half arsed opinion - it's a fundamental design issue. Constant mesh gearboxes are admittedly tricky things to design - you can't just stop shaft rotation between gearchanges because the dogs might not mesh, so you have to design in a shaft deceleration curve which allows the dogs a fighting chance of engaging, while being slow enough to snick in without crunching. Tricky but not impossible by any means - many manufacturers (including BMW) have managed it quite successfully in the past. To me it sounds like a clutch drag problem - shaft rotation speed is still too high at the gearchange point. This might be down to the clutch design, gear dog geometry or clutch actuation (or a combination).

The fact that 'solutions' are being tried means that there is a tacit admission that there is a problem but different oil / pushrod changes are probably attempts to fix it cheaply... To fix it properly might require replacement clutch slave / master cylinders, clutches or (God forbid) new gearbox internals. It's almost guaranteed that hell will freeze over before this happens as it would amount to an admission that BMW fecked up and would trigger worldwide recalls - massively costly and embarrassing. That said, you can guarantee that there are some pretty serious meetings taking place in Bavaria. I'd guess that there will be an attempt to correct the problems with the release of the GSA and hope that the GS owners will give up complaining and go away...
Click to expand...


GOT IT IN ONE !!!!!!!
 
Yep it really beggars belief & even more surprisingly owners are happy to endure it or only protest mildly :)
 
Hold on......back up...... You always pull the clutch in to change gear?

How the fuck can I mess with my SatNav and change gear now I've learned this?

And for the record I was riding bikes whilst In my mothers uterus.
 
FFS you only need to worry when a) you can"t select a gear, b) it jumps out of gear.
Click to expand...

That is why my bike went in to have the work done. Now:

(a) I can select a gear.

(b) The bike stays in the selected gear.

No more clacks, no more crunches and I can now get neutral.

I would humbly suggest to anyone who has the same problem as I had with my bike then take it to a dealer. If they are not helpful then take it to a different dealer.
 
MattW said:
This thread beggars belief.
There are half arsed opinions from technical riding experts, gnarly old timers who have more miles and bikes under their belts than most on this site (got to love the arrogance of that :rolleyes: ) and simple owners who want their bikes to work as they think they should. I bought 'Bike' magazine today and the summary of their long term test bike was 'great but the gearbox is crap' (I paraphrase).

For Christ's sake, were talking about BMW's flagship 2013 bike not a hand change Harley from the dawn of time. To say that the gear change issues are down to technique are equivalent to BMW saying that gearchange issues on (say) the M5 car are down to the driver moving the gearlever too fast - can you see them getting away with that?

It's nearly 2014 - bikes should be getting easier to use, not harder. Changing gear is a fundamental requirement and shouldn't require 'riding god' technique and timing - it should (as has been previously noted on this thread) be as simple as clutch in, gear, clutch out. There should be no need to make allowances for the gearbox /clutch on a modern, mainstream tourer (which is what the GS is).

My half arsed opinion - it's a fundamental design issue. Constant mesh gearboxes are admittedly tricky things to design - you can't just stop shaft rotation between gearchanges because the dogs might not mesh, so you have to design in a shaft deceleration curve which allows the dogs a fighting chance of engaging, while being slow enough to snick in without crunching. Tricky but not impossible by any means - many manufacturers (including BMW) have managed it quite successfully in the past. To me it sounds like a clutch drag problem - shaft rotation speed is still too high at the gearchange point. This might be down to the clutch design, gear dog geometry or clutch actuation (or a combination).

The fact that 'solutions' are being tried means that there is a tacit admission that there is a problem but different oil / pushrod changes are probably attempts to fix it cheaply... To fix it properly might require replacement clutch slave / master cylinders, clutches or (God forbid) new gearbox internals. It's almost guaranteed that hell will freeze over before this happens as it would amount to an admission that BMW fecked up and would trigger worldwide recalls - massively costly and embarrassing. That said, you can guarantee that there are some pretty serious meetings taking place in Bavaria. I'd guess that there will be an attempt to correct the problems with the release of the GSA and hope that the GS owners will give up complaining and go away...
Click to expand...


I agree absolutely.

I've owned the 1150, 1200 TC, and after riding the new WC came away completely underwhelmed. Poor gearbox, crappy switchgear and instruments that are difficult to read. Bad enough I thought until I hit the forums. Gearbox issue is a real problem, switchgear failing all over the place, build quality issues reported on advrider and water pump problems beginning to surface.

This is an unreliable bike. Anyone wishing to ride beyond the geographical limits of their breakdown cover would be better to do so on a DRZ or XT. I wouldn't dream of a RTW trip on a WC GS, you'd be better of asking Nick Sanders for the loan of his R1!
 
Wyreflyer said:
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Look, I'm a bit pished, I've had two large gins, haven't logged on for days (weeks?) and can't be arsed to read all the replies ...

But ...

Why aren't you matching your down changes?? Why is there no throttle on your down change - whether it's constant or a blip? ... you're just shutting it, pulling in the clutch (revs drop) and then letting out the clutch again .. No wonder it feckin' clonks! There's no deft balancing of gas and revs at all :rob

Why are you down changing coming to T where you'll then select first?? That's out the system?? You're taking a gear completely unnecessarily and not using it other than to slow down, which is what yer brakes are for... Ride up to the T, ... brake ... click click ... drive away. Only take a gear if you're going to actually use it (which I accept also means tightening the bike up, but that's different to just slowing down on the gear box ... :rob)

Going up the gear box, I don't use that much clutch. I preload my gear lever with my foot, take up the tension, then a tiny dip of the clutch against the pressure of my foot and ... snick ... it's in gear in the blink of an eye.

Sorry ... appalling use of throttle, clutch and gears ....

Hic ....
 
Giles - as per previous couple of pages, the clunk happens this regardless of how you change gear up or down.
(keep it going chaps, nearly at a 1000 replies!)
 
Giles said:
.... Why aren't you matching your down changes?? Why is there no throttle on your down change - whether it's constant or a blip? ... you're just shutting it, pulling in the clutch (revs drop) and then letting out the clutch again .. ....
Click to expand...
My neighbour rides just like this, makes me cringe every time I hear him coming down the road.... some folks have no mechanical appreciation these days.
 
Mine doesn't :D (2013 LC ...) :thumb2
 
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