Clacks , Crunches, or cant get Neutral

Yes, ongoing visits and phone calls and emails to the dealer and BMW have been taking place.... I have actually just got off the phone with a legal advisor (having never done this before!) explaining the 10 issues I have had with the machine, and the continuing issue with the clutch / gearbox.
I have had the bike since June last year and have been more than patient with BMW, allowing them to do "fixes" on my bike, to no avail. But now my patience is running out. I will see what BMW come back to me with and go from there. There are rumours from my dealer that a new clutch design is being sent our way (yes BMW are still testing and trying to sort it believe it or not) and I have said that I will gladly try this new design out before I go any further, there is also the slave cylinder fix which I am also waiting to have done.
I REALLY don't want to change my bike, I'm quite attached to it! But I have never been so frustrated with a bike on the other hand....
 
Titto said:
Yes, ongoing visits and phone calls and emails to the dealer and BMW have been taking place.... I have actually just got off the phone with a legal advisor (having never done this before!) explaining the 10 issues I have had with the machine, and the continuing issue with the clutch / gearbox.
I have had the bike since June last year and have been more than patient with BMW, allowing them to do "fixes" on my bike, to no avail. But now my patience is running out. I will see what BMW come back to me with and go from there. There are rumours from my dealer that a new clutch design is being sent our way (yes BMW are still testing and trying to sort it believe it or not) and I have said that I will gladly try this new design out before I go any further, there is also the slave cylinder fix which I am also waiting to have done.
I REALLY don't want to change my bike, I'm quite attached to it! But I have never been so frustrated with a bike on the other hand....
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But have you been into the dealer and clearly stated that you wish to reject your bike - :nenau
 
It's getting to that point as I said but I am willing to see if these last two fixes work. It's a culmination of all the problems I've unfortunately had, not just the clutch issue.

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Titto said:
Yes, ongoing visits and phone calls and emails to the dealer and BMW have been taking place.... I have actually just got off the phone with a legal advisor (having never done this before!) explaining the 10 issues I have had with the machine, and the continuing issue with the clutch / gearbox.
I have had the bike since June last year and have been more than patient with BMW, allowing them to do "fixes" on my bike, to no avail. But now my patience is running out. I will see what BMW come back to me with and go from there. There are rumours from my dealer that a new clutch design is being sent our way (yes BMW are still testing and trying to sort it believe it or not) and I have said that I will gladly try this new design out before I go any further, there is also the slave cylinder fix which I am also waiting to have done.
I REALLY don't want to change my bike, I'm quite attached to it! But I have never been so frustrated with a bike on the other hand....
Click to expand...

In all fairness know one would blame you for demanding a refund, different bike etc. seems you've been more than reasonable and sometimes it takes a more direct approach to get things sorted to your satisfaction. Hopefully they will sort it out and compensate you to your satisfaction .
 
Same bike, same problem. I bought bike after first scheduled service and it was around the 1700 mile mark that mine developed the annoying tendency to make it difficult to find neutral. Trying to ease the gear lever from 2nd to 1st sometimes makes the gear position display go blank. Releasing the clutch lever confirms it is stuck in gear. Is there a general problem with the LC transmission?
 
DaveTGS said:
Same bike, same problem. I bought bike after first scheduled service and it was around the 1700 mile mark that mine developed the annoying tendency to make it difficult to find neutral. Trying to ease the gear lever from 2nd to 1st sometimes makes the gear position display go blank. Releasing the clutch lever confirms it is stuck in gear. Is there a general problem with the LC transmission?
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There's division of thought between a possible fault and rider operation - BMW are working on a fix, some bikes have been returned to dealers and deal done to have a new one.

The returned bikes now on the forecourts.

Read the posts, but let your thoughts be known to the dealer - if you're not happy you need to deal with it.
 
My money is on a fix being announced soon and the fix will be a new clutch pack (full set of plates) with new friction material and perhaps some fancy steel plates. Just my hunch.

Cold clutch seems fine no clunk engine starts to warm up and the trouble starts. I know there was talk of excessive oil flow via the push rod mine was changed for the modded item but to no avail. Yes engine oil and master cylinder level have an influence on the action but that is not a fix.

One assumes bm must be satisfied the clutch is opening sufficiently (function of master and slave cylinder diameter ratios) to allow each plate adequate space so each can becomes free from its neighbour. So what else can it be any of you guys want to put forward your theory n fix:aidan
 
Magnon said:
My money is on a fix being announced soon and the fix will be a new clutch pack (full set of plates) with new friction material and perhaps some fancy steel plates. Just my hunch.....

2015 promises to be a good year then!:thumb2
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Magnon said:
My money is on a fix being announced soon and the fix will be a new clutch pack (full set of plates) with new friction material and perhaps some fancy steel plates. Just my hunch.

Cold clutch seems fine no clunk engine starts to warm up and the trouble starts. I know there was talk of excessive oil flow via the push rod mine was changed for the modded item but to no avail. Yes engine oil and master cylinder level have an influence on the action but that is not a fix.

One assumes bm must be satisfied the clutch is opening sufficiently (function of master and slave cylinder diameter ratios) to allow each plate adequate space so each can becomes free from its neighbour. So what else can it be any of you guys want to put forward your theory n fix:aidan
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In the meantime, whilst a fix is underway ........................what longterm abuse is the gearbox getting from all the cack handed gear changes?

That would be a concern of mine, further down the road, so to speak
 
Just got my GSW today and have been lurking on this forum for a while.

What I don't understand is that on motorcycle gearboxes the clutch is only really required when coming to a stop, setting off or smoothing out downshifts. Quick shifters that take advantage of this are becoming increasingly common and I understand even the GS is to get this option. This is because if the engine output torque matches the corresponding torque coming back through the drivetrain from the momentum of the bike the gear dogs will engage perfectly.

This matching is what makes a smooth shift, and not really the clutch.

Tomorrow I'll try preloading the shifter with my foot and dropping the power slightly and see it it changes nicely without the clutch.




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Magnon said:
My money is on a fix being announced soon and the fix will be a new clutch pack (full set of plates) with new friction material and perhaps some fancy steel plates. Just my hunch.

Cold clutch seems fine no clunk engine starts to warm up and the trouble starts. I know there was talk of excessive oil flow via the push rod mine was changed for the modded item but to no avail. Yes engine oil and master cylinder level have an influence on the action but that is not a fix.

One assumes bm must be satisfied the clutch is opening sufficiently (function of master and slave cylinder diameter ratios) to allow each plate adequate space so each can becomes free from its neighbour. So what else can it be any of you guys want to put forward your theory n fix:aidan
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good post that. A couple of points.

bmw has commented that the clutch issues has something to do with TOO MUCH oil reaching the clutch plates. That makes sense if one were to imagine a wet clutch pack submerged 1/4 way , 1/2 way , 3/4 way and 1/1 way in oil. Obviously the more the plates are submerged in oil , the more difficult it would be for the plates to separate.

the comment about how the water GS's clutch behaves like a cable operated clutch which hasn't been adjusted properly to give enough travel , is spot on. With my old 80" harley , if I fill the primary (where the clutch sits) with too much oil , the clutch is grabby and neutral difficult to find (familiar eh) , and gearbox changes sticky.

so , stab in the dark : somehow there is just too much oil flooding the clutch housing and submerging the plates.

It would be interesting to see where the clutch housing gets her oil and how that oil is recirculated. The water gs engine unit is unique in that the clutch is on one side of the engine and the gearbox is on the other , and the clutch is actuated from the other end of the engine.

as for the varying bite points of the clutch , this might be caused by varying levels of oil submerging the clutch plates.

good discussion.

.
 
pistole said:
good post that. A couple of points.

bmw has commented that the clutch issues has something to do with TOO MUCH oil reaching the clutch plates. That makes sense if one were to imagine a wet clutch pack submerged 1/4 way , 1/2 way , 3/4 way and 1/1 way in oil. Obviously the more the plates are submerged in oil , the more difficult it would be for the plates to separate.

the comment about how the water GS's clutch behaves like a cable operated clutch which hasn't been adjusted properly to give enough travel , is spot on. With my old 80" harley , if I fill the primary (where the clutch sits) with too much oil , the clutch is grabby and neutral difficult to find (familiar eh) , and gearbox changes sticky.

so , stab in the dark : somehow there is just too much oil flooding the clutch housing and submerging the plates.

It would be interesting to see where the clutch housing gets her oil and how that oil is recirculated. The water gs engine unit is unique in that the clutch is on one side of the engine and the gearbox is on the other , and the clutch is actuated from the other end of the engine.

as for the varying bite points of the clutch , this might be caused by varying levels of oil submerging the clutch plates.

good discussion.

.
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It would be unbelievable if BMW Motorrad had not considered this, as JB notes while the "fix" is being sorted, can't be too far away now can it... What's the effect on the engine?
I've test ridden GS & GSA's quite liked both favoured the latter, want to order now.
So tested silky smooth - what arrives in the crate/frame??
 

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Gossy said:
It would be unbelievable if BMW Motorrad had not considered this, as JB notes while the "fix" is being sorted, can't be too far away now can it... What's the effect on the engine?
I've test ridden GS & GSA's quite liked both favoured the latter, want to order now.
So tested silky smooth - what arrives in the crate/frame??
Click to expand...

Mechanically it can't be good for the gearbox bearings, teeth & selector forks to not be engaging smoothly in the longer term

The effect of the poor clutch actuation must be detrimental to the gearbox life
 
cookie said:
certainly won't be beneficial to the engagement dogs.
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Only if you do slow changes at inappropriate revs/speed - on most bikes you can make perfect smooth up changes without the clutch - blip on down changes and they are smooth too - so there is no reason to cause any damage.
 
Nippy Normans supply Touratech, Wunderlich, Desert Fox and many other makes of accessories.
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