Clacks , Crunches, or cant get Neutral

O.K. I've found this on Utube. I think it is a clutch problem as I have stated previously. In the video it is a 2013 bike bike. My bike is a March 2014 and is the same, all be it not as bad as the unfortunate guy in the video.
This is not the usual BM clunk into 1st, which is O.K. by me ( all my BM's in the past have done that, except my K100RS ).
It's an easy check, if you think you have a problem, it takes seconds to do.
Is it acceptable ? NO !!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCmRAiECCGI

Greg
 
But it shouldn't have 'the usual BM clunk into 1st' - it's a conventional bike gearbox that doesn't run at crank speed and has a wet clutch. There's no excuse for this in a brand new state of the art flagship model.
 
MattW said:
But it shouldn't have 'the usual BM clunk into 1st' - it's a conventional bike gearbox that doesn't run at crank speed and has a wet clutch. There's no excuse for this in a brand new state of the art flagship model.
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Hi Mat

Yes I agree, however I would be one happy peb to just have the 1st gear clunk.

We where at a filling station last week and 2 Guardia Civil ( Police bike cops ). As they went to pull away, one went for a masive clunk into 1st ( I reckon he may have had a bad bike ) ? The other cop tried to put his bike into 2nd, when he found it, he then pulled off. The 2nd cop definitely had a bad bike.

Greg


Greg
 
wrinkleyowlie said:
I find it really difficult to understand why some people find it it almost impossible to accept that there are owners who are having gearbox/clutch problems with their bike?

If you would accept gears mashing together before they properly engage as "character" then that's your entitled opinion.Personally I'd call it a fault.

Perhaps your bike does not experience this problem and for that I'm pleased,but I can assure you it is not down to your superior riding skills and knowledge which you consistantly appear to suggest.

For goodness sake man just accept that there are folks who are having genuine problems and are becoming increasingly frustrated at the length of time it is taking the manufacturer to sort out.

Out of the 100+ bikes I have owned in the last 40 years 25 or so have been BMW's and I've yet to own one with a gearchange as poor as my current WC.

Steve
Click to expand...

I accept that some people have bikes with genuine faults, that happens with all manufactured products, but for some people to have 3 bikes in a row and for there still to be the same 'problem' is rather unlucky don't you think?

By the way the gears don't 'mash together before they properly engage' the gear teeth are constantly 'meshed', the noise you hear is the dogs engaging.

I do not suggest my riding skills are superior, but I have learnt how to make this box change gear just as well as previous two 1200s. If you try to change gear too slowly with this new box then you will get noises, you need to be quick and positive. I can make my gear changes clonky if I do lazy changes in the low gears.
 
Every bike I've ever owned has clunked into 1st :nenau

The FJ I was riding today?? Makes yer wince first thing in the morning. Every set of red lights I pump the clutch two or three times before selecting first and it still bangs in like a church door bolt. Blade does it, Gixxer does it even my WR did it .... (and would only find neutral if I span up the revs as I went for the click ..)

I accept wrinklyowlie's complaint that there are bad bikes out there - and yep there will always be good bikes and bad bikes, but I also think there's either a reluctance by some folk, or maybe no appetite (maybe a genuine ignorance :nenau), that machines, engines, gearboxes ... are all different and all need an element of 'ok ... so how do you work best'.

My frustration is that it seems (I'm trying to tread carefully here and not upset anybody .. :P) that nobody is willing to step back, look at their bike and experiment with it. Learn it, bond with it, play with it.

My box ain't great. 4 - 5 - 6 ... fantastic, seamless. 1 - 2 - 3 ... yep, not so good, but I've got to know it, it's little foibles and I understand it. I know how it wants to work, I know what it doesn't like, I know where it like the revs ...

I think my bike is feckin' brilliant. Remapped, full exhaust system ... it is really dialled in. And in a bizarre way (that you just may not get) I sort of quite like the fact that every now and then it creeps round behind me and throws me a low baller. 'Arrrrggh you little tinker ... you got me there ... '. Daft? Maybe.

One of my work colleagues has just sold his VFR1200. We constantly took the piss out of him for having a fridge. (his bike was known as the zanussi). It was utterly utterly reliable. But boring - completely flat, uninteresting dull and unispiring. Did what it said on the tin.
Now of course .... of course ... I don't actually want an unreliable bike. I'm not trying to disguise something that could be better as 'character', but I am saying I'd rather have what I've got, than a brilliantly engineered but dull as dish water fridge.

So learn it :rob Get yer head around it, find out how it works best, understand it's heart beat, and fall in love with a bike that may not be quite perfect, but has a whole lotta more soul than your average Honda ...

Learn the bike .... :thumb2
 
Giles said:
Every bike I've ever owned has clunked into 1st :nenau

The FJ I was riding today?? Makes yer wince first thing in the morning. Every set of red lights I pump the clutch two or three times before selecting first and it still bangs in like a church door bolt. Blade does it, Gixxer does it even my WR did it .... (and would only find neutral if I span up the revs as I went for the click ..)

I accept wrinklyowlie's complaint that there are bad bikes out there - and yep there will always be good bikes and bad bikes, but I also think there's either a reluctance by some folk, or maybe no appetite (maybe a genuine ignorance :nenau), that machines, engines, gearboxes ... are all different and all need an element of 'ok ... so how do you work best'.

My frustration is that it seems (I'm trying to tread carefully here and not upset anybody .. :P) that nobody is willing to step back, look at their bike and experiment with it. Learn it, bond with it, play with it.

My box ain't great. 4 - 5 - 6 ... fantastic, seamless. 1 - 2 - 3 ... yep, not so good, but I've got to know it, it's little foibles and I understand it. I know how it wants to work, I know what it doesn't like, I know where it like the revs ...

I think my bike is feckin' brilliant. Remapped, full exhaust system ... it is really dialled in. And in a bizarre way (that you just may not get) I sort of quite like the fact that every now and then it creeps round behind me and throws me a low baller. 'Arrrrggh you little tinker ... you got me there ... '. Daft? Maybe.

One of my work colleagues has just sold his VFR1200. We constantly took the piss out of him for having a fridge. (his bike was known as the zanussi). It was utterly utterly reliable. But boring - completely flat, uninteresting dull and unispiring. Did what it said on the tin.
Now of course .... of course ... I don't actually want an unreliable bike. I'm not trying to disguise something that could be better as 'character', but I am saying I'd rather have what I've got, than a brilliantly engineered but dull as dish water fridge.

So learn it :rob Get yer head around it, find out how it works best, understand it's heart beat, and fall in love with a bike that may not be quite perfect, but has a whole lotta more soul than your average Honda ...

Learn the bike .... :thumb2
Click to expand...

A lot of sense there :)
 
I can't believe there are people on this forum who shell out a not to considerable amount of money to buy a bike that should be near on darn perfect and accept faults with a gearbox and call it character.
It's a complete joke that with all the technology available to BMW they can't design a perfect clutch/gearbox, I could understand it if it was something that was cobbled together in some blokes shed but this WC model is an evolution of a line.
Trust me, manufacturers don't replace cars/bikes without a good reason, once they go down that route where does it stop?
There's no way I will consider one until I'm confident a solution has been found, I'm not into nursing bikes into gear.
 
Trekker3 said:
I can't believe there are people on this forum who shell out a not to considerable amount of money to buy a bike that should be near on darn perfect and accept faults with a gearbox and call it character.
It's a complete joke that with all the technology available to BMW they can't design a perfect clutch/gearbox, I could understand it if it was something that was cobbled together in some blokes shed but this WC model is an evolution of a line.
Trust me, manufacturers don't replace cars/bikes without a good reason, once they go down that route where does it stop?
There's no way I will consider one until I'm confident a solution has been found, I'm not into nursing bikes into gear.
Click to expand...

Some sense spoken
 
Giles.
I ride the same bikes as you. Our fj's whilst are the worst things possibly on the planet have a silky smooth gearbox / clutch compared to mine. The rt's whilst they are noisy are also in a different league to. my wc.
5 lads at work (who are also very experienced riders I will add) have also had a good test on my wc and not one would agree with some of the rubbish posted on here. So either everyone suddenly loses their skills at changing gear or there is an issue.
People shouldn't have to be lowering oil levels, have slave cylinders changed, new clutches, new push rods etc on their new bikes. There is a definite problem with some part of the system on mine.
I know how to bloody ride and I know how to change gear, there are a few bods on here who can vouch for that.
And don't get me started on my secret neutral.....what neutral?!!!

Incidentally, I have tested 2 other 2013 bikes with lots of mileage on and a 2014 model. Those were all 100% fine.

I also find it odd that some people are willing to accept problems as "character". You really haven't ridden a bike which is suffering as badly as the ones described have you? Be honest? You haven't had to live with it!? Ride it day in day out crunching away, fighting to get into any bloody gear? No.

People need to accept there is an issue for some bikes.

If we go back to the start though, I don't recall people having issues until after their first service. Has anyone tried a different oil?

Sent from my D5503 using Tapatalk
 
Titto said:
Giles.
I ride the same bikes as you. Our fj's whilst are the worst things possibly on the planet have a silky smooth gearbox / clutch compared to mine. The rt's whilst they are noisy are also in a different league to. my wc.
5 lads at work (who are also very experienced riders I will add) have also had a good test on my wc and not one would agree with some of the rubbish posted on here...you shouldn't have to lower oil levels, have slave cylinders changed, new clutches, new push rods etc etc. There is a definite problem with some part of the system on mine.
I know how to bloody ride and I know how to change gear, there are a few bods on here who can vouch for that.
And don't get me started on my secret neutral.....what neutral?!!!

Incidentally, I have tested 2 other 2013 bikes with lots of mileage on and a 2014 model. Those were all 100% fine.

I also find it odd that some people are willing to accept problems as "character". You really haven't ridden a bike which is suffering as badly as the ones described have you? Be honest? You haven't had to live with it!? Ride it day in day out crunching away, fighting to get into any bloody gear? No.

People need to accept there is an issue for some bikes.

If we go back to the start though, I don't recall people having issues until after their first service. Has anyone tried a different oil?

Sent from my D5503 using Tapatalk
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Before I rejected my bike, I took the opportunity to ride both mine (following 4 weeks with the dealer applying the latest list of fixes) and the dealers demo bike back-to-back, the difference was like chalk and cheese. The trolling knob jockeys that continue to discount that there is an underlying issue with some bikes, should be grateful that they have a good one and haven't had to go through the pain and frustration of a bad one - :thumb
 
Trekker3 said:
I can't believe there are people on this forum who shell out a not to considerable amount of money to buy a bike that should be near on darn perfect and accept faults with a gearbox and call it character.
It's a complete joke that with all the technology available to BMW they can't design a perfect clutch/gearbox, I could understand it if it was something that was cobbled together in some blokes shed but this WC model is an evolution of a line.
Trust me, manufacturers don't replace cars/bikes without a good reason, once they go down that route where does it stop?
There's no way I will consider one until I'm confident a solution has been found, I'm not into nursing bikes into gear.
Click to expand...

Nursing it into gear is the LAST thing that you should do.

There is no way I'd consider a KTM 1190R until they sort out the airbox problem - now that is serious,the engine can prematurely wear without you knowing it until it is too late and your 3 year warranty has run out :D
 
So, why doesn't somebody with a crap bike arrange for somebody who thinks it's just character and can 'ride around it' meet up and swap bikes for an hour or so? I know Wapping offered but nobody took him up on it.

My take on wading through all the bollox on here is that this is an issue reported world wide.
WMB are replacing bits, suggesting different oil levels, blah, blah, blah.
MBW are replacing whole bikes due to gearbox issues.
Manufacturers do not do that sort of thing lightly and certainly not because some peeps can't adjust their riding style to deal with any foibles the gearbox has. Therefore there IS a serious issue with the design of this box. End of.

And Peter Perfect, you really talk so much bollox I really don't know where to start..... "Don't buy an 1190R 'cos of a poorly sealing air box' - tell you what I'd rather deal with that, grease the seals (as you would on any dirt bike going into dusty conditions) and ride on happy than enter the WMB gearbox lottery on a £15k bike.

Andres
 
What have they done?

Had a test ride on the new GSA & RT , what a difference on the gear chance, everything just click in gear :cool:. Question: is the heavier new flywheel affect the design of the clutch ? What else have they done on the new bikes I wonder....:confused:
 
Outtomunch said:
So, why doesn't somebody with a crap bike arrange for somebody who thinks it's just character and can 'ride around it' meet up and swap bikes for an hour or so? I know Wapping offered but nobody took him up on it.

My take on wading through all the bollox on here is that this is an issue reported world wide.
WMB are replacing bits, suggesting different oil levels, blah, blah, blah.
MBW are replacing whole bikes due to gearbox issues.
Manufacturers do not do that sort of thing lightly and certainly not because some peeps can't adjust their riding style to deal with any foibles the gearbox has. Therefore there IS a serious issue with the design of this box. End of.

And Peter Perfect, you really talk so much bollox I really don't know where to start..... "Don't buy an 1190R 'cos of a poorly sealing air box' - tell you what I'd rather deal with that, grease the seals (as you would on any dirt bike going into dusty conditions) and ride on happy than enter the WMB gearbox lottery on a £15k bike.

Andres
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If the LC is such a disaster then how come it is still the best selling bike in its class by far and that KTM are having to come out with special offers in order to shift their newest wonder bike?

Yes the LC box is not perfect (unlike me :D) BMW are trying to keep their customers happy, however replacing bikes doesn't always seems to work does it? why?

I am happy to ride someone's 'crap bike' if they are up for it - but they are NOT riding mine unless they deposit the value of my bike in cash in my hand.

P.P.S. it is not just a poor sealing airbox on the KTM, apparently it is not the right type of filter.
 
Yeah zoltan, I also tested a new rt (post 1st service) and it's really nice.

Sent from my D5503 using Tapatalk
 
Engineer said:
If the LC is such a disaster then how come it is still the best selling bike in its class by far and that KTM are having to come out with special offers in order to shift their newest wonder bike?

Yes the LC box is not perfect (unlike me :D) BMW are trying to keep their customers happy, however replacing bikes doesn't always seems to work does it? why?

I am happy to ride someone's 'crap bike' if they are up for it - but they are NOT riding mine unless they deposit the value of my bike in cash in my hand.

P.P.S. it is not just a poor sealing airbox on the KTM, apparently it is not the right type of filter.
Click to expand...

Please point me to where I said the WC was a disaster?

Of course it outsells the KTM, WBM always have done, KTMs are a niche bike and WBM are mass market these days, what's your point?

As you said in the KTM 1190 thread, at least KTM are listening to their customers and will sort the issue.
Two years down the line and BWM customers are still having bikes replaced due to a poorly designed gearbox.

Let me see now, which would cause me most concern; an airbox that has let dust in to the intake system in extreme conditions or a design fault with a major componant such as a gearbox.....................

Andres
 
Engineer said:
P.P.S. it is not just a poor sealing airbox on the KTM, apparently it is not the right type of filter.
Click to expand...

can i ask where that bit of info came from?

and andres,
if the ktm airbox is letting dust in in extreme conditions, it'll be letting dust in in all conditions. just less of it. bad news for engines really.

...and ktm have "sorted" the issue already. the 2014 bikes have a revised airbox. it seems it made no difference though :rolleyes:
 
When the 1150gs came out they too had gearbox issues. I had two packup in a 3 week period. Heavy demand may place too much pressure on quality service and checks. Imagine the machining centres, go out by a few microns. Not picked up so a whole batch of bikes have an issue. Next run are ok. Japanese Engineers would be horrified and offer to commit hari kari over such issues. BMW deny any problems,they were blaming Customers for being too heavy on the clutch and change.:eek: So it continues some 12 years later.:D:rob
 
Think if my"lc" was that bad/crap id wheel it back to the dealers and get my hard earned back. Wouldnt buy another bm either. Why wait,get your money back your gonna miss the summer. Dealer wont offer you the money you have to ask. DEMAND IT. Then go buy a Honda.
 
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