Clutch change question

[Canuck]

So I have a counterbalance shaft seal leaking all over the clutch... which is now slipping. The question is... as the bike only has about 30000 miles on it and the clutch s barely worn, would it be advisable to only change the friction disc or should I replace the pressure plate and housing cover as well? I suspect the oil is completely cleanable off the metal components so won't be a long standing issue. What say the collective?

 

[JJH]

I have more experience on cars like escorts and vivas and other rear wheel drive and plenty of fiat 127/128 and such like and the wisdom at that time was if the clutch was slipping even though the pressure plate might look ok the spring has more than lightly been subject to more heat than it was designed for and is probably weakened. I know it's a long winded was of saying change all parts. JJH

 

[Pukmeister]

Having changed a slightly glazed clutch on my GSA that had virtually no wear at 30,000 miles, I'd say if you are confident the metal bits are good then just degrease and fit a new friction plate. A full clutch kit costs a lot (over £400 here in UK, parts are dealer only) so there is a lot to be saved.

Others will say that having to split the bike in half to change the clutch means you might be better off changing everything, personally I guess that depends on whether you are prepared for the possibility of needing to do it twice if you have to.

I've heard stories of people soaking clutches in degreaser or even coca-cola then re-using, but that's a judgement call only you can make once you split the bike. Another option might be getting the friction linings replaced by a clutch and brake specialist eg truck agent.

 

[Bendy toy]

There's a huge thread over on AdvRider all about alternative clutch plates for the 1150. One being the VW beetle clutch plate.

Has anyone found a more normal alternative to the OEM friction plate for the 1200? There's the Touratech (wear my flywheel as fast as you can) sintered plate, but it's silly money.

If the balance shaft seal has failed its likely the gearbox and crankshaft seals won't be far behind so do the lot.

 

[autogs]

its a lot of work to get to the clutch,do the sensible thing and replace the lot

 

[Canuck]

Why does everyone have to think the same...

I always swapped the whole unit on my 80's and 1100 but clutch packs for those were significantly cheaper than the parts for the 1200rt. As I do the work myself there are no labour costs per se but those three clutch parts are pricey. Oh well... won't have to worry about it again for some time now! Thanks for the replies.

 

[Canuck]

Motobins seem sell an aftermarket oil proof clutch but that's about it. I was certainly that I had always bought a clutch pack for about 290 ish but nothing similar seems to be available for the 1200.

 

[Greenman14]

I don't think we can make this decision for you. Clearly you have the ability to do the work yourself, whether you have the time and can stand the risk,of a second stripdown later to replace the pressure plate is your call. Also, you've seen the pressure plate to assess its condition, we haven't. Personally, in your position, I wouldn't spend £400 on a new pressure plate if I thought the original was ok- if it's overheated the signs should be be there.

 

[DrFarkoff]

Oil Proof clutches are VERY grabby I have not ridden one that settled even after a couple of thousand miles

I would see what the extent of damage is but I would budget for "at least" a new pressure plate

ButI seem to recall a difference in pushrods between 1st gen and later and having to buy a complete clutch and pushrod !!

 

[JJH]

Many years ago 1982 I worked in a motor factors. 1 of the jobs was to get clutches reconditioned. New friction material was riveted to the disc and the pressure plate was tested on a big machine like a pedistal drill. I seen it been done from a distance. And 30 odd years ago. If you could find some engeneering shop that could test the pressure plate it could save you a job in a few month. JJH

 

[Bendy toy]

Ive just Googled "Ferodo clutch reline" but only found brake relining services. That's not to say nobody does it.

Searching "clutch reline" found these
http://bondingandreline.co.uk/brakes-clutches/
http://www.precisionclutch.co.uk/Categories/12/Relining.html
http://www.saftek.co.uk/classics.html
http://custombrakes.co.uk

The R1150 clutch friction plate is almost exactly the same as an old VW Beetle clutch. The 1200 differs only in the spline numbers. The cars have a sprung centre but it seems to be not such a good idea on the bike causes driveline bounce.

The gearbox input shaft does not have a needle roller into the crankshaft. Who knows why BMW thought that's a great idea but its what we have to work with. It puts additional loads on the clutch input bearings so probably explains why my 60K miles gearbox rattles in neutral.

Before you change the clutch listen to the gearbox. A tappety noise in neutral that goes away when clutch lever is pulled indicates the input shaft end-float clearances are too wide. Logic suggest the bearings are also nearing end of life so best to plan for doing them at the same time the bike is taken apart.

 

[Canuck]

That's a good tip! Thanks for that. I must say though that I do get a bit of pleasure from breaking a bike in half! I usually end up with a few spare bolts as well so all the better!

 

[jwpzx9r]

That's a good tip! Thanks for that. I must say though that I do get a bit of pleasure from breaking a bike in half! I usually end up with a few spare bolts as well so all the better!

Ah comfy bits because you find yourself muttering where the F did they come fae

 

[Pukmeister]

I'd also recommend that you burnish the splines on the gearbox input shaft with a light coating of molybdenum disulphide grease using a small toothbrush, wiping away the excess before clutch assembly.

 

[Steptoe]

The R1150 clutch friction plate is almost exactly the same as an old VW Beetle clutch. The 1200 differs only in the spline numbers. .

The 1200 has the same amount of splines as the 1150.

The reason why the 1200 clutch is so expensive is because the pressure plate also incorporates the flywheel and starter ring gear to save weight.
On the 1100/1150 models these parts are entirely separate from the clutch.

If the clutch is slipping due to an oil leak just cleaning the friction surface isn't enough. As the clutch slips and overheats it absorbs the oil.
When refitted and it gets hot again the oil absorbed into the friction material seeps back out.

 

[Galactic Greyhound]

Way back in the days when oil-soaked drum brake linings and clutch discs were quite common, the remedy was to douse them in petrol and set fire to them (it was advisable to remove the parts before doing this)

 

[Bendy toy]

The 1200 has the same amount of splines as the 1150.

The reason why the 1200 clutch is so expensive is because the pressure plate also incorporates the flywheel and starter ring gear to save weight.
On the 1100/1150 models these parts are entirely separate from the clutch.

So if the flywheel is clean you could risk a new friction plate. I would anyway. I looked at mine last year (at 50K mies) the driven plate was 60% towards minimal thickness so I put it back again. The engine designers thoughtfully included a cover plate over the flywheel. Sadly nobody told the chassis designers who made it impossible to remove the air box with frame attached to engine so you cant look at the clutch.

At 60K miles my gearbox has got pretty rattly in neutral so I expect to be taking it apart she time during the next 10K miles.

Same splines as 1100/1150 looks like a VW Beetle driven plate might also work on the 1200 (advrider thread covers the issues).

The rear subframe is lifted up rather than fully removed pretty handy as BMW didn't bother with connector blocks on the wiring loom making full removal a right PIA.

Yes I'm moaning (again) about BMW design but really these are zero cost issues other than someone bothering to think just a little bit.