Complained about 2009 GSA faults today and.....
- Thread starter Montrose Sun
- Start date
Panic over, he's got fifty gees burning a hole in his pocket.... Enough to get it all sorted and a bit left over for a nice rock and chips supper.....
Montrose Sun
Registered user
I really could do without sarky comments from toss pots like you wapping - if this thread is annoying you, just go somewhere else.
Right so it seems a no go and im unbelievebly pissed off with the whole thing now.
I have been noting down a timeline of whats been happening as i cant be arsed to explain the developments -
Bmw complaint timeline –
• 5th December – first email written to Jon at Glasgow, Raymond Henderson at JC Aberdeen and Craig at JC Aberdeen
• 14th December – after no response, called Raymond Henderson at JC Aberdeen who said he’d passed it on to his service manager and basically blamed him for not dealing with it.
• Ask me to re-send it as they had clearly lost it so re-sent.
• Was agreed that I would take bike in to let them look at it – but snow came.
• Called them 20th January (first possible date since snow) to arrange to come in – was arranged for next day Thursday 21st
• Got a call from Raymond Henderson asking to forward them the email again since they had lost it again
• Went in Thursday 21st and spent 4 hours(!!) talking over problems with Craig the only bike technician. He washed bike down as it was dirty from coming in and took photos for bmw’s customer service dept. of offending parts and said to wait and hear.
• Made two follow up calls as hadn’t heard anything and eventually heard at 17.21hrs from Phil Angus (service manager) that bmw had got back to them and they wouldn’t cover the handlebar scuff, frame rubs (3 of), centre stand and alu panniers.
• Phoned Phil Angus at JC Aberdeen on Monday 1st Feb to confirm his call (voicemail) on the previous Friday
• Phoned Jon Clark at Central west on Tuesday 2nd to ask why he hadn’t got back to me since my email on the 5th December. Jon Clark has left but only on the 29th of jan so plenty time to get back to me. Spoke to Andrew and he said the new aftersales manager would be in touch – still no word.
• Phoned Andrew today Thursday 4th feb and asked why the new aftersales manager had not called yet – getting quite annoyed now. He said, he’s sorry but he put the email and my number on his desk immediately after my call on Tuesday the 2nd. He said he’d remind him right now and ask him to call before close of business – still no word.
• Now Tuesday 9th – no word still so away to phone.
• Spoke with Mel at central – After a 41 min conversation and him tryig to tell me most of the problems are ‘wear and tear’, he says he’ll email bmw customer services and ask what can be done. No apology for not getting back to me when he should have. I tell him that I’ll come down for the service and all warranty work but to sort it all out and get back to me asap as my 12000 mile service is looming. Im not too hopefull.
• Mel called me today – I missed his call. I called him back. First time I got cut off and was hung up on. Second time, he said he would go to his own desk and would transfer me to that phone – but it went to his answermachine and then I got cut off. Third time lucky – I told him what happened – again no apology (seems he’s got the wrong job??) He said that he phoned Phil Angus (except he got his surname wrong) and he says that JC Aberdeen sent all pics to BMW customer services and they got a response back and that was BMWs decision. I said that I told him that on Tuesday (which I did) and that he clearly wasn’t listening. He then started to back track. Asked if he would sort things as my supplying dealer – no he said. Getting absolutely nowhere so I said id phone customer services and take it further. He said that was what to do.
• Now at home and the bike is now at 12074 miles.
• Spoke to Amy at BMW customer services at 16.35hrs approx on the 11th feb for 14mins and gave her the brief outline of the problem (as that’s all she seemed to have time for!) with the bike and the shocking customer service. She assures me that she will be in touch.
• Amy was in touch on two occasions to let me know she hadn’t forgotton about me.
• Amy was again in touch at 09.20 hours today 17/02/10 for 6 mins to enlighten me that bmw had the case reviewed by 3 people – the warranty dept, Jonny Combe (regional manager) and Howard Godolphin (Field technical manager) and that all three had come to the same conclusion that the bike had been neglected and that proper care and protection would have prevented these incidents (rusty centre stand, rub on the handle bars, frame rust in 3 places and badly corroded alu boxes) and that e.g. washing the bike down after salty rides would have prevented this – something I have done everytime without fail with the addition of anti corrosive treatment sprays after this – also without fail.
• Asked amy what had been done about the customer service complaint which was also mentioned on the original call to her and it was clear that nothing further had been done at her end about that and all she said was that she mentioned it to Raymond Henderson and Phil Angus at JC Aberdeen and that it was know an in-dealership issue. Nothing about all the hassle I have had and distinct lack of service from Motorrad Central.
• Asked her for all concerned email addresses and full names and addresses.
I just dont understand this at all? Do what they want with looking after it and then still refuse to stand by warranty claims? Not seem to care a toss about the fact that they may loose me as a customer?
I WILL NOT be buying another BMW. As soon as i get halfway through my 'select' i will be handing the bike back and walking away.
Meanwhile with the issues in hand i will still persist. I know that someone on this thread said recorded delivery letters and sale of goods act but they also stated 'unless there is finance' and thats me so i need to figure out what to do now.
Any words of help, pointer in the right direction or encouragement would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks, Dave
Right so it seems a no go and im unbelievebly pissed off with the whole thing now.
I have been noting down a timeline of whats been happening as i cant be arsed to explain the developments -
Bmw complaint timeline –
• 5th December – first email written to Jon at Glasgow, Raymond Henderson at JC Aberdeen and Craig at JC Aberdeen
• 14th December – after no response, called Raymond Henderson at JC Aberdeen who said he’d passed it on to his service manager and basically blamed him for not dealing with it.
• Ask me to re-send it as they had clearly lost it so re-sent.
• Was agreed that I would take bike in to let them look at it – but snow came.
• Called them 20th January (first possible date since snow) to arrange to come in – was arranged for next day Thursday 21st
• Got a call from Raymond Henderson asking to forward them the email again since they had lost it again
• Went in Thursday 21st and spent 4 hours(!!) talking over problems with Craig the only bike technician. He washed bike down as it was dirty from coming in and took photos for bmw’s customer service dept. of offending parts and said to wait and hear.
• Made two follow up calls as hadn’t heard anything and eventually heard at 17.21hrs from Phil Angus (service manager) that bmw had got back to them and they wouldn’t cover the handlebar scuff, frame rubs (3 of), centre stand and alu panniers.
• Phoned Phil Angus at JC Aberdeen on Monday 1st Feb to confirm his call (voicemail) on the previous Friday
• Phoned Jon Clark at Central west on Tuesday 2nd to ask why he hadn’t got back to me since my email on the 5th December. Jon Clark has left but only on the 29th of jan so plenty time to get back to me. Spoke to Andrew and he said the new aftersales manager would be in touch – still no word.
• Phoned Andrew today Thursday 4th feb and asked why the new aftersales manager had not called yet – getting quite annoyed now. He said, he’s sorry but he put the email and my number on his desk immediately after my call on Tuesday the 2nd. He said he’d remind him right now and ask him to call before close of business – still no word.
• Now Tuesday 9th – no word still so away to phone.
• Spoke with Mel at central – After a 41 min conversation and him tryig to tell me most of the problems are ‘wear and tear’, he says he’ll email bmw customer services and ask what can be done. No apology for not getting back to me when he should have. I tell him that I’ll come down for the service and all warranty work but to sort it all out and get back to me asap as my 12000 mile service is looming. Im not too hopefull.
• Mel called me today – I missed his call. I called him back. First time I got cut off and was hung up on. Second time, he said he would go to his own desk and would transfer me to that phone – but it went to his answermachine and then I got cut off. Third time lucky – I told him what happened – again no apology (seems he’s got the wrong job??) He said that he phoned Phil Angus (except he got his surname wrong) and he says that JC Aberdeen sent all pics to BMW customer services and they got a response back and that was BMWs decision. I said that I told him that on Tuesday (which I did) and that he clearly wasn’t listening. He then started to back track. Asked if he would sort things as my supplying dealer – no he said. Getting absolutely nowhere so I said id phone customer services and take it further. He said that was what to do.
• Now at home and the bike is now at 12074 miles.
• Spoke to Amy at BMW customer services at 16.35hrs approx on the 11th feb for 14mins and gave her the brief outline of the problem (as that’s all she seemed to have time for!) with the bike and the shocking customer service. She assures me that she will be in touch.
• Amy was in touch on two occasions to let me know she hadn’t forgotton about me.
• Amy was again in touch at 09.20 hours today 17/02/10 for 6 mins to enlighten me that bmw had the case reviewed by 3 people – the warranty dept, Jonny Combe (regional manager) and Howard Godolphin (Field technical manager) and that all three had come to the same conclusion that the bike had been neglected and that proper care and protection would have prevented these incidents (rusty centre stand, rub on the handle bars, frame rust in 3 places and badly corroded alu boxes) and that e.g. washing the bike down after salty rides would have prevented this – something I have done everytime without fail with the addition of anti corrosive treatment sprays after this – also without fail.
• Asked amy what had been done about the customer service complaint which was also mentioned on the original call to her and it was clear that nothing further had been done at her end about that and all she said was that she mentioned it to Raymond Henderson and Phil Angus at JC Aberdeen and that it was know an in-dealership issue. Nothing about all the hassle I have had and distinct lack of service from Motorrad Central.
• Asked her for all concerned email addresses and full names and addresses.
I just dont understand this at all? Do what they want with looking after it and then still refuse to stand by warranty claims? Not seem to care a toss about the fact that they may loose me as a customer?
I WILL NOT be buying another BMW. As soon as i get halfway through my 'select' i will be handing the bike back and walking away.
Meanwhile with the issues in hand i will still persist. I know that someone on this thread said recorded delivery letters and sale of goods act but they also stated 'unless there is finance' and thats me so i need to figure out what to do now.
Any words of help, pointer in the right direction or encouragement would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks, Dave
The fifty gee's didn't help then?
Still, never mind, at least you can afford to swap your bike, many people can't.
Having failed to get any movement with the minions in BuMW Customer Services (you might consider writing to their UK MD, perhaps?) and if you still feel that you have been badly treated your next port of call might be your local Trading Standards office, maybe? If they cannot help you, then you might approach a newspaper. Honest John in Saturday's Daily Telegraph often takes up the cudgel on behalf of motorists, maybe he can be persuaded to contact BuMW on your behalf?
I still wouldn't rule out BBC's 'Watchdog' programme, either. Even MCN might take an interest; have you tried them? Have you tried contacting BuMW head office in Germany? Maybe a solicitor can advise you as to your rights under assorted chunks of UK and EU legislation?
One thing to remember is that a letter, as opposed to an email or phone call, is often more effective. It's psychological... a letter is real, in that someone holds it in their hands, as opposed to a somewhat transient telephone exchange or email ping-pong.
To answer your specific question. BuMW does not want to lose any customers. Indeed quite the reverse, they want to grow market share. But they will not keep a customer at any price, that is for sure. If they - or their dealers - ultimately feel that a customer is being deliberately unreasonable then they will let the customer go, for sure.
Still, never mind, at least you can afford to swap your bike, many people can't.
Having failed to get any movement with the minions in BuMW Customer Services (you might consider writing to their UK MD, perhaps?) and if you still feel that you have been badly treated your next port of call might be your local Trading Standards office, maybe? If they cannot help you, then you might approach a newspaper. Honest John in Saturday's Daily Telegraph often takes up the cudgel on behalf of motorists, maybe he can be persuaded to contact BuMW on your behalf?
I still wouldn't rule out BBC's 'Watchdog' programme, either. Even MCN might take an interest; have you tried them? Have you tried contacting BuMW head office in Germany? Maybe a solicitor can advise you as to your rights under assorted chunks of UK and EU legislation?
One thing to remember is that a letter, as opposed to an email or phone call, is often more effective. It's psychological... a letter is real, in that someone holds it in their hands, as opposed to a somewhat transient telephone exchange or email ping-pong.
To answer your specific question. BuMW does not want to lose any customers. Indeed quite the reverse, they want to grow market share. But they will not keep a customer at any price, that is for sure. If they - or their dealers - ultimately feel that a customer is being deliberately unreasonable then they will let the customer go, for sure.
Reasonability is the key.................BMW have reasonably rejected your claim
Maybe if you had taped up the frame, where your boots rub ......................then it wouldn't have gone rusty or put a plate or some rubber pipe on the crossbrace of the centrestand, then perhaps it wouldn't have rusted
Stones flung at the centrastand is fair wear and tear, so is paint rubbing off the frame, where your boots have rubbed it off
Wear and tear....................but you could have done something yourself to mitigate this wear and tear, by actively protecting the bike
I believe BMW have made the correct decision from the facts you have stated
Maybe if you had taped up the frame, where your boots rub ......................then it wouldn't have gone rusty or put a plate or some rubber pipe on the crossbrace of the centrestand, then perhaps it wouldn't have rusted
Stones flung at the centrastand is fair wear and tear, so is paint rubbing off the frame, where your boots have rubbed it off
Wear and tear....................but you could have done something yourself to mitigate this wear and tear, by actively protecting the bike
I believe BMW have made the correct decision from the facts you have stated
Montrose Sun
Registered user
Why should i have to do anything other than regularly wash it and cover it with ACF50 and FS365?
The problem comes, JB, when others do not share your view as to what is reasonable.
Indeed, many may think that it is unreasonable to ask a customer to add additional frame guards to prevent rubbing. Some may not accept that stone chipping on a centre stands support is reasonable. Some may find it unreasonable to even read the owners manual.
Some may go as far as to say that this is an around the world motorcycle, sold at a premium price, a rubbed frame rendering it 'Unfit for purpose'. Quite what 'purpose' and 'unfit' exactly are, is, (like reasonableness, iteslf) open to conjecture.
Why should i have to do anything other than regularly wash it and cover it with ACF50 and FS365?
My point to JB, exactly.
Why should i have to do anything other than regularly wash it and cover it with ACF50 and FS365?
Pray tell....................how do you expect a frame where the paint has been rubbed off by you and your boots ...............to not rust in a British Winter
BMW paint the frame and you rub it off with your boots..................who is at fault??
In a court of law.....................your case would be laughed out of court
Buy some black paint and put some paint on the frame and centrestand yourself or continue to ride it as it is and accept that by using something that general 'wear and tear' is bound to happen
All my bikes haven't suffered this........................because I take a precaution to prevent or mitigate any damage I might cause to their painted surfaces by actually using them
Some of the grey paint on my XChallenge has rubbed off the alloy frame and alloy swingarm, caused by me and my boots and riding the bike offroad..............am I bleating to BMW that this is unreasonable......................no I'm fecking not, because it is wear and tear in normal use that the bike was designed for
Accept it that you are not going to win this one
..........................your Forum name is apt
Why should i have to do anything other than regularly wash it and cover it with ACF50 and FS365?
Am I right in understanding that you've done 12,000 miles in 6 months?
I think the average for many people is 3,000 a year... so lets be generous and call the average 6,000
If you've gonna do 4 times the average mileage - you've gonna have to take extra precautions. It's not complicated.
Reasonably so, even.
Why should i have to do anything other than regularly wash it and cover it with ACF50 and FS365?
There is the problem. You are expecting the bike to deal with stones coming off the road and your boots wearing the paint all by itself. I'd love to know what you expected BuMW to do about it?
I'm not surprised they threw those claims out. It has nothing to do with you not washing the bike but it is definately fair wear and tear given your mileage.
My boots wear the paint away and guess what? The frame rusts in the salty weather so i did something about it MYSELF! You know, bit of hammerite and some frame protecters...simples. As for you complaining about the stonechips and subsequent rusting, I'm almost speechless but YOU CAN do something about that.
It sounds like everyone is ganging up on you but I think most of us are in the real world where owning a motorbike involves some preventive maintainence. It's also very satisfying having a tinker
sorry if this has been siad befor but........
my theory is,
BMW used to make bike like the OP is looking for.
only problem was, that they cost 2x the price of the equivalent Jap bike of similar capacity.
ie Suzuki GS1000 £1500, R100RS £3000, people bought them but not so many.
and anyway, the majority of motorcyclists only use thier bikes in the summer for a few thousand miles a year.
Now they sell to the majority at a similar price to the boring, bland, plastic, jap shite
(there may be a small personal bias slipping in there)
my theory is,
BMW used to make bike like the OP is looking for.
only problem was, that they cost 2x the price of the equivalent Jap bike of similar capacity.
ie Suzuki GS1000 £1500, R100RS £3000, people bought them but not so many.
and anyway, the majority of motorcyclists only use thier bikes in the summer for a few thousand miles a year.
Now they sell to the majority at a similar price to the boring, bland, plastic, jap shite
(there may be a small personal bias slipping in there)
Pray tell....................how do you expect a frame where the paint has been rubbed off by you and your boots ...............to not rust in a British Winter
BMW paint the frame and you rub it off with your boots..................who is at fault??
In a court of law.....................your case would be laughed out of court
Buy some black paint and put some paint on the frame and centrestand yourself or continue to ride it as it is and accept that by using something that general 'wear and tear' is bound to happen
All my bikes haven't suffered this........................because I take a precaution to prevent or mitigate any damage I might cause to their painted surfaces by actually using them
Some of the grey paint on my XChallenge has rubbed off the alloy frame and alloy swingarm, caused by me and my boots and riding the bike offroad..............am I bleating to BMW that this is unreasonable......................no I'm fecking not, because it is wear and tear in normal use that the bike was designed for
Accept it that you are not going to win this one
OUCH!!
I'm looking forward to this bike coming up for offer in the FSW section.
Me? I would have kept my gob shut, taken whatever BuMW eventually offered, polished it up a tads and flogged it.
Now everyone knows it's a thinly disguised rust bucket and its value is falling like a stone.
Me? I would have kept my gob shut, taken whatever BuMW eventually offered, polished it up a tads and flogged it.
Now everyone knows it's a thinly disguised rust bucket and its value is falling like a stone.
Thread's gone a bit quiet
I have just had a stone mark my oil cooler -- will this be covered by the warranty
but the real problem is that the bike leans over too far and I have rubbed the polish off my boots. - maybe that is a warranty issue also.
but the real problem is that the bike leans over too far and I have rubbed the polish off my boots. - maybe that is a warranty issue also.
Montrose Sun
Registered user
For anyone that is intersted -
Since this thread was started, i have been in touch with trading standards and the CAB, written to the 3 heads that were dealing with my complaint, spoken in person to Watchdog who are very interested in running a story as are Ride magazine and have also spoken to the consumer part of my daily paper.
I got generic replies from bmw and now my solicitors have been informed.
Since the faults on the first post the following has happened - all within 6 days of the 12000 mile service being completed...........
Final drive oil seal leaking
Rear brake bound on to such an extent i had to stop the bike to allow it to free itself
Oil warning light intermittantly comes on but without a warning triangle
Fuel gauage and range even more unbelievably innacurate than ever before
Dipped beam bulb blows for the second time in 12000 miles
Over-full with new oil
Final drive getting clunkier than ever before and no diagnosis mentioned at service even though i asked it to be looked at
And a couple of other things too
The result?
Ive got rid of it.
Useless pile of shite.
Since this thread was started, i have been in touch with trading standards and the CAB, written to the 3 heads that were dealing with my complaint, spoken in person to Watchdog who are very interested in running a story as are Ride magazine and have also spoken to the consumer part of my daily paper.
I got generic replies from bmw and now my solicitors have been informed.
Since the faults on the first post the following has happened - all within 6 days of the 12000 mile service being completed...........
Final drive oil seal leaking
Rear brake bound on to such an extent i had to stop the bike to allow it to free itself
Oil warning light intermittantly comes on but without a warning triangle
Fuel gauage and range even more unbelievably innacurate than ever before
Dipped beam bulb blows for the second time in 12000 miles
Over-full with new oil
Final drive getting clunkier than ever before and no diagnosis mentioned at service even though i asked it to be looked at
And a couple of other things too
The result?
Ive got rid of it.
Useless pile of shite.
D6
Registered user
so what are you gonna buy next?
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