Creating a BMW Navigator IV from a Zumo 660?

[Nick V]

Is there anyone on UKGSer who's technically savvy with Garmin GPSs?

I ask because the following line of thought is proving very tempting. I'm reliably informed that a BMW Navigator IV is simply a re-branded Zumo 660, with firmware that enables it to take inputs from the hand controller (it seems the Zumo 660 will fit the LC GS's GPS cradle, but won't accept hand-controller inputs. However, it works fine in every other aspect).

My question is: does anyone know if it's possible to flash the Navigator IV firmware to a 'vanilla' Zumo 660 - thus netting you a Navigator IV (without having to submit your tender rear end to enthusiastic attention via blunt object from a BMW parts & accessories counter)?

 

[Schtum]

My question is: does anyone know if it's possible to flash the Navigator IV firmware to a 'vanilla' Zumo 660 - thus netting you a Navigator IV (without having to submit your tender rear end to enthusiastic attention via blunt object from a BMW parts & accessories counter)?

I think you'll find the KY Jelly might ease your predicament somewhat but attempts at converting a 660 into a Nav IV would prove fruitless.

 

[malcopopolo]

Interesting! I contacted garmin technical support about this very same thought. They believed there was no firmware difference between the two units. I believe there must be. Can anyone advise what firmware version is running on the nav4 by connecting to garmin express? Does garmin express recognise it as a 660 or nav4?

 

[Neil W]

I tried my 660 in the bmw cradle on a demo bike, it will fit and will power up but will not work on the hand controls.
To be honest the bmw controller was a pain on their sat nav , every time you knocked the hand controller the screen would change.
With my 660 I preferred using its screen controls, I get the feeling it is more than just a sotware change

 

[chrisjk]

The bike's computer probably checks to see if the GPS device has the correct BMW secret handshake that says "I have paid the BMW premium, so please control me".

This might be as simple as checking the serial number of the unit.

 

[iand46]

Interesting! I contacted garmin technical support about this very same thought. They believed there was no firmware difference between the two units. I believe there must be. Can anyone advise what firmware version is running on the nav4 by connecting to garmin express? Does garmin express recognise it as a 660 or nav4?

The buttons down the left side of the old style BMW mount do not work with the 660 so it must be different firmware. GE will see the Nav IV as that model, it even claims to update the BMW dealer database annually.

Garmin get it wrong on so many occasions.

 

[Wrinkly]

I'm no techno wizard,but I do know that the Nav V does not recognise mapsource and you need to use basecamp to plot any routes.

I had a 660 before my Nav V and they are very different.

I like the Nav V but I'm struggling with basecamp ! Given a choice I'd rather not have the wheel thing on the bars.

Steve

 

[mcinlb]

I did once download the contents of a Tom Tom satnav to computer to delete some extraneous 'stuff' that made the files too big to load onto the available memory.

While doing this I reformatted the drive and then reloaded the program onto the satnav. All worked ok.

SO, I would think if you can get hold of a Nav IV and copy the drive contents, it should be able to be loaded onto a 660 once its memory has been 'emptied and formatted.

A certain amount of risk involved if you do now fully understand what you're doing.

 

[Titto]

Op you need to be asking on a programming forum. I believe anything can be done with similar hardware.
For example, years ago there was a program written to get the old nav 3 to display it's folder contents in windows... It being totally locked down and hidden. That was how I used to keep the maps up to date.
Other examples are flashing nuvi's to think they are other models. I'll have a look later and post what I find.

Sent from my D5503 using Tapatalk

 

[The Grey One]

I'm no techno wizard,but I do know that the Nav V does not recognise mapsource and you need to use basecamp to plot any routes.

I had a 660 before my Nav V and they are very different.

I like the Nav V but I'm struggling with basecamp ! Given a choice I'd rather not have the wheel thing on the bars.

Steve

Any route made in Mapsource can be saved as a .gpx file and then imported into basecamp for use on these later devices.

John

 

[Nick V]

Interesting! I contacted garmin technical support about this very same thought. They believed there was no firmware difference between the two units. I believe there must be. Can anyone advise what firmware version is running on the nav4 by connecting to garmin express? Does garmin express recognise it as a 660 or nav4?

I concur: there must be if other peoples' experiences indicate that a Zumo 660 will not respond to the hand controller or the side buttons.

I tried my 660 in the bmw cradle on a demo bike, it will fit and will power up but will not work on the hand controls.
To be honest the bmw controller was a pain on their sat nav , every time you knocked the hand controller the screen would change.
With my 660 I preferred using its screen controls, I get the feeling it is more than just a software change

For me, the whole point is to be able to use the hand controls - when I'm doing Iron Butt runs, I often switch between the navigation screen, distance readouts and heading readout.
If it turns out it's not possible to endow a Zumo 660 with that functionality, I might as well stay with the Zumo 500 I already own, and is already mounted to the LC.

Op you need to be asking on a programming forum. I believe anything can be done with similar hardware.
For example, years ago there was a program written to get the old nav 3 to display it's folder contents in windows... It being totally locked down and hidden. That was how I used to keep the maps up to date.
Other examples are flashing nuvi's to think they are other models. I'll have a look later and post what I find.

Thanks mate.
I've tried browsing the contents of GPS Underground, but I couldn't find anything that related directly to this topic. Also, I'm not an IT fundi by trade. My reasoning says that since the two units are made by the same manufacturer from the same base components (and probably in the same facility) the hardware must be the same between the two. Therefore, the same firmware versions would work on both units.
If that's true, the only trick would be pulling a copy of the firmware from a Nav IV, and using it to flash a Zumo 660 - without 'bricking' the unit.

 

[Titto]

Nick, thats a good site to get started on. I would post on there to one of the tech guys for further links to programmers.

I had a BMW marked up Zumo 550 a few years ago and initially I got all the Zumo firmware updates for it when Zumo 550 updates were released. It accepted both the BMW specific ones and the Zumo 550 ones. The Zumoforums.co.uk website came to the conclusion that there was no difference at all and no one got a bricked unit from applying either type of firmware - it was basically the same just labelled as "bmw" specific.

There were some good mods years ago on gpsunderground too (used to be some stickies), where people modded their older 2xxx series garmin units to show things like satellite data and compass mode etc like you got on the BMW NAV 3 and other 2xxx units.

I'm still convinced these 660's can be fully modded. I lost my programming skills years ago though!!

 

[iandavid]

Is there anyone on UKGSer who's technically savvy with Garmin GPSs?

I ask because the following line of thought is proving very tempting. I'm reliably informed that a BMW Navigator IV is simply a re-branded Zumo 660, with firmware that enables it to take inputs from the hand controller (it seems the Zumo 660 will fit the LC GS's GPS cradle, but won't accept hand-controller inputs. However, it works fine in every other aspect).

My question is: does anyone know if it's possible to flash the Navigator IV firmware to a 'vanilla' Zumo 660 - thus netting you a Navigator IV (without having to submit your tender rear end to enthusiastic attention via blunt object from a BMW parts & accessories counter)?

When connected to Garmin, the Nav4 shows up as a "BMW Navigator 4 (S/Nxxxxx)". My Nav 4 has latest firmware which is V5.0

Hope that helps.

 

[WindyChuffer]

Isn't your time better spent working a bit harder to earn a bit more £££ and then go and buy a Nav V. Surely thats better use of time as opposed to reinventing the wheel?

Ask yourself this:
- how many hours will it take to mod the 660?
- how many hours will it take to earn the ££ to just go buy one?

 

[Wapping]

Sell the earlier GPS device. Put money towards the Nav V or a decent BBQ party. Happiness and much less fiddling about all 'round.

Nutty... Should this thread not be in the GPS section for a wider audience, its connection to 1200 WC steeds is tenuous at best.

 

[Neil W]

I actually found the bmw sat nav hand controls a pain in the backside, when I ride the bike I tend to rest the inside of my hands against the raised inner part of the handlebar grip. On the demo bike in 3 hours I must have accidentaly changed the sat nav screen at least a dozen times

 

[Nick V]

Nick, thats a good site to get started on. I would post on there to one of the tech guys for further links to programmers.

I had a BMW marked up Zumo 550 a few years ago and initially I got all the Zumo firmware updates for it when Zumo 550 updates were released. It accepted both the BMW specific ones and the Zumo 550 ones. The Zumoforums.co.uk website came to the conclusion that there was no difference at all and no one got a bricked unit from applying either type of firmware - it was basically the same just labelled as "bmw" specific.

There were some good mods years ago on gpsunderground too (used to be some stickies), where people modded their older 2xxx series garmin units to show things like satellite data and compass mode etc like you got on the BMW NAV 3 and other 2xxx units.

I'm still convinced these 660's can be fully modded. I lost my programming skills years ago though!!

I've created a user account on GPS Underground, but for some unfathomable reason, it won't let me create a thread.

Any ideas on how I might go about pulling a copy of the firmware from a Nav IV?

Isn't your time better spent working a bit harder to earn a bit more £££ and then go and buy a Nav V. Surely thats better use of time as opposed to reinventing the wheel?

Ask yourself this:
- how many hours will it take to mod the 660?
- how many hours will it take to earn the ££ to just go buy one?

Let me enlighten you with some figures:

1. I'm posting this from South Africa. To put it mildly, the Rand/Euro exchange rate is disadvantageous compared to the Pound/Euro. As I write this, we are sitting at ZAR 14.60 to the Euro. Which goes some way to explaining the prices below:
2. I can currently buy a second-hand Zumo 660 from Gumtree (the local equivalent of eBay) for R6 000.
3. Garmin Direct are selling run-out 660s for R6 899.
4. The cheapest 660 I can find is run-out stock at Cape Union Mart (a local outdoor goods chain) for a quoted R4 999.
5. The BMW dealer through which I have my LC serviced quoted me just under R9 300 for a Navigator IV. That did not include maps. And the price is going up again next month. (Ah, the price we pay for our so-called democracy.)

I wouldn't complain if a Navigator IV were dropped into my lap. But to buy one? With money? In our money, that's taking the piss.
What for, when I already have a GPS that can do 90% of what the Nav IV can and is paid for?

How many hours... I must say, I really don't give a turkey how many hours.
Perhaps you'd care to sponsor me BMW's asking price, dear sir?...

 

[WindyChuffer]

You ain't gettin it are ya? I give up !!

 

[pistole]

am constantly amazed with my nav5. Amazing bit of kit. The interaction with the nav , helmet bluetooth and handphone is super

money can be made.
.

 

[Nick V]

I give up !!

Thank god for that.

@ Titto: I've contacted the site admin for GPS Underground re. the inablity to post new threads. I'll let you know if and when they reply...