Death of a GS

[Warlord]

Its a genuine and quite a good tip the average rider wont run out of lean angle we just don't have the confidence to use it all, and genuinely it was from a BSB race I used to ride with, panic braking will end in tears leaning more will get you round.

I ride very very very slow so all the time less than posted speed limits so rarely need to use more than 20% of lean, but its nice to know there is plenty more if needed

Ok it seems you've got the wrong end of stick with what I've been trying to say.

People have suggested that if you brake in the corner its bad planning. 95% of the time thats true.

All I was saying is that some sweeping corners have a severe tightening radius that engine braking and lean angle is not enough. It'll spit you out over the centre line.

I'm not talking about panic braking, I'm saying that some rare corners require you to scrub more speed than engine braking will allow in the short distance the limit point is advancing on you. So you would gently and safely use the brakes. Thats my point.

Jeeze, it must be just me thats ever come across these treacherous bends. They are not normal, they are rare and severe.

Anyways you lot think what you want.

 

[Warlord]

How did the bars and rear tyre touch down at the same time?


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As the bike slides broadside momentum would throw bike forward and tyre and bars would make contact. Like it would flip, but doesn't.

 

[andylel]

Haven’t read this whole thread, too busy with life, but if there’s one thing that’s boils my blood its all these advanced riders that talk about brakes as if it’s some kind of sin to use them. Yes, practice being smooth without them but FFS they are there to lose speed. The fastest way round any corner is to scrub off just enough speed as quickly as possible to set your entry speed correctly. The fastest way to do that is with your brakes...period.


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[andylel]

As the bike slides broadside momentum would throw bike forward and tyre and bars would make contact. Like it would flip, but doesn't.

Can’t see it. Lay the bike on the floor and try to touch bars and rear tyre down at the same time. There’s a great big cylinder head in the way holding the thing up. Just can’t see the geometry working.


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[Warlord]

Haven’t read this whole thread, too busy with life, but if there’s one thing that’s boils my blood its all these advanced riders that talk about brakes as if it’s some kind of sin to use them. Yes, practice being smooth without them but FFS they are there to lose speed. The fastest way round any corner is to scrub off just enough speed as quickly as possible to set your entry speed correctly. The fastest way to do that is with your brakes...period.


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Hey I'm an Advanced Rider and I use the bloody brakes. It's what they're there for.

Reason you don't hear Advanced Riders talking about brakes is they are never travelling fast enough to need them. Engine braking is enough 90% of time.

If you are hooning, front brakes are essential.

 

[andylel]

Hey I'm an Advanced Rider and I use the bloody brakes. It's what they're there for.

Reason you don't hear Advanced Riders talking about brakes is they are never travelling fast enough to need them. Engine braking is enough 90% of time.

If you are hooning, front brakes are essential.

Great and right answer of course. If it helps put some more perspective on my post a Warlord, so am I. IAM and RoSPA Gold for 25 years bike and cars and qualified tutor for both. Brakes are the way forward ... no wait ... backwards .... no wait ... oh never mind.


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[Warlord]

Can’t see it. Lay the bike on the floor and try to touch bars and rear tyre down at the same time. There’s a great big cylinder head in the way holding the thing up. Just can’t see the geometry working.


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Its 270kg travelling at 40mph or so, that's a lot of weight pitching, bouncing and rolling around uncontrollex at speed.

Those scuff marks are probably 1 seconds worth of touch down. Thats it.

 

[Deleted account 181015003]

Ok it seems you've got the wrong end of stick with what I've been trying to say.

People have suggested that if you brake in the corner its bad planning. 95% of the time thats true.

All I was saying is that some sweeping corners have a severe tightening radius that engine braking and lean angle is not enough. It'll spit you out over the centre line.

I'm not talking about panic braking, I'm saying that some rare corners require you to scrub more speed than engine braking will allow in the short distance the limit point is advancing on you. So you would gently and safely use the brakes. Thats my point.

Jeeze, it must be just me thats ever come across these treacherous bends. They are not normal, they are rare and severe.

Anyways you lot think what you want.

A closed throttle and engine braking or even a constant throttle will load the front, the correct way around a corner is to add power, slow in fast out, fast in slow out you will run wide and over the centre line exactly as you say happens.

It you think for a minute you will realise that the rear wheel as a bike is leaned over the rolling circumstance decreases and to maintain the same speed more revs are required to avoid loading the front and the slow in fast out method will reduce lots of running wide problems, a tightening corner will go pear shaped if you don't add more engine speed and lean.

Next time you come across one off these corners or even practice on your favourite set of bends lean more and open the throttle and the bike will not run wide your line will tighten, the hard bit is doing what seems unnatural it took me some time to have faith in the method when it was explained to me.

But what do I know I am Captain Slow when out on a ride

 

[Warlord]

Nothing that we could see

You can clearly see the lateral scuff marks on the tyre here. And they are on the correct side for an offside lowside.

 

[Warlord]

That tyre wall touched down as the bike slid sideways, you can see it.

 

[andylel]

A closed throttle and engine braking or even a constant throttle will load the front, the correct way around a corner is to add power, slow in fast out, fast in slow out you will run wide and over the centre line exactly as you say happens.

It you think for a minute you will realise that the rear wheel as a bike is leaned over the rolling circumstance decreases and to maintain the same speed more revs are required to avoid loading the front and the slow in fast out method will reduce lots of running wide problems, a tightening corner will go pear shaped if you don't add more engine speed and lean.

Next time you come across one off these corners or even practice on your favourite set of bends lean more and open the throttle and the bike will not run wide your line will tighten, the hard bit is doing what seems unnatural it took me some time to have faith in the method when it was explained to me.

But what do I know I am Captain Slow when out on a ride

All true. Keith Code deals with this in his books. Over coming survival reactions. All good stuff.


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[phooey]

As i understand the insurance debacle the offer was insulting in the first instance for a 65 plate triple black justified with a page from Glasses guide that was actually for a base model GS and that the accessories ( standard on TB) were not declared FFS

Any way all sorted satisfactorily as of now from what i gather but after much tooing and froing

Tried that glass guide crap with me...just evidence from the available similar year, spec, mileage, condition bikes for sale the actual cost to replace yours and that is your starting point in the negotiation. HTH.

 

[Warlord]

A closed throttle and engine braking or even a constant throttle will load the front, the correct way around a corner is to add power, slow in fast out, fast in slow out you will run wide and over the centre line exactly as you say happens.

It you think for a minute you will realise that the rear wheel as a bike is leaned over the rolling circumstance decreases and to maintain the same speed more revs are required to avoid loading the front and the slow in fast out method will reduce lots of running wide problems, a tightening corner will go pear shaped if you don't add more engine speed and lean.

Next time you come across one off these corners or even practice on your favourite set of bends lean more and open the throttle and the bike will not run wide your line will tighten, the hard bit is doing what seems unnatural it took me some time to have faith in the method when it was explained to me.

But what do I know I am Captain Slow when out on a ride

FFS OK

 

[Deleted account 181015003]

FFS OK

I no longer find these suicide corner you describe, but I use the system above give it a try and these suicide corners may be a thing of the past, nobody is too old or too good to learn

 

[Warlord]

I no longer find these suicide corner you describe, but I use the system above give it a try and these suicide corners may be a thing of the past, nobody is too old or too good to learn

I can't.

The last four Suicide Corners I found killed me. So that's it, no more learning for me. You're too late.

 

[Deleted account 181015003]

I can't.

The last four Suicide Corners I found killed me. So that's it, no more learning for me. You're too late.

Sounds like you have been in the Wars lord

 

[Micky]

No no that makes it a seven P system not the six, like it

the limit point doesnt lie

Good one, agree ... the limit point N E V E R lies

Seven pages in and no sign of Mr Bear and the sandwiches

Getting hungry now

If you had read my post in the correct context and spirit and not jumped to conclusions you would not have made the reply that you did.

You clearly didn't see my sticky out tongue and smiley

And a famous mantra for biking " Loose your view loose your speed"

Totally agree Rick ... good one

My strategy is; if I am going too fast I use the brakes, Pillock

Here is some advice from one of those advanced riding chaps.
http://www.visordown.com/features/a...-cornering-brakes-gears-and-deceptive-corners

You should never be 'going too fast' ... remember my six (now seven) P strategy

Here's more advice Willie Waver

Please note the sticky out tongue and Smilie

 

[albatross]

Time we all had a bier .... and you can tell me all about that thar Duck o' yours

Micky,your bier is spelled very Teutonic...

 

[Engineer]

Good one, agree ... the limit point N E V E R lies



Getting hungry now



You clearly didn't see my sticky out tongue and smiley



Totally agree Rick ... good one



You should never be 'going too fast' ... remember my six (now seven) P strategy

Here's more advice Willie Waver

Please note the sticky out tongue and Smilie

Things have moved on in the last 20 years . Brakes on old bikes were rubbish so you had to ride accordingly, modern brakes are in a different word so the advice needs to be updated, just like it was in the car world, so I am told, i.e. "Gears to go brakes to slow' for example - anyway if one finds that one is going too fast, forget all that 'good riders don't use their brakes' bollox and use them, there is nothing wrong with riding like that.

The overriding caveat for all methodologies though is that safety comes first, innit - simples

 

[Deleted account Cooperman]

Would cornering ABS have saved him?