Death of a GS

[Deleted account 211025001]

Well now ...

I have now seen the video, and I've got to say ... I am quite surprised too! I was sort of expecting lairy speeds and lairy lean angles and it's all pretty sensible! So I can understand your head scratching.

Personally, I think he pushes his front first. We can all see his back coming round, but I think it's his front that goes first - just by the tiniest amount, and it all goes wrong from there.

I don't want to come across as one of these wankers that tells you how to go round a corner .... but ...

What I would say is that 'Steve' looks a pretty big guy and sits very still on his bike, he also looks like he rides on his insteps? (Hard to tell exactly..). So when you're a big, still sack of spuds, on insteps, there's very little input from you in terms of moving your body about and using your weight. You really are the ultimate passenger along for the ride and the bike is going to be the boss. Being 'still' is not such a bad thing - the ultimate swan on the water style is 'quietly efficient' (Page one, paragraph one ..!) but there's a balance to be had between being so still on your bike that you give it no input what so ever, and of course being lairy and hanging off and all that shit that we're most definitely not talking about.

The perfect balance in my very humble opinion, is a very active torso, very very relaxed elbows, definitely riding on the balls of your feet and a head that sort of leads the way into corners (Think chin towards the leading mirror).

What caused Steves tyres to let go? (Front I think) I've absolutely no idea?! (We could talk for hours on 'easy in, hard out', 'tyre grip trade off', acceleration sense etc etc), but (heres the wanker advice bit .. !) by being so still and 'unanimated' if you like, once that front had a little tiny slip, there was no loose rider input to be able to catch it and recover, there was no body weight to move about and be 'active' and 'involved' in the bikes steering and manourvering. What does your head weigh ? six or seven kilos? What about your upper body and head 35 / 40 kilos? That is a lot of weight! Thats an olympic bar and two 20k plates! Now imagine putting that on a waiters tray and getting him to hold it balanced with one hand. You'd only have to move that weight about a 1cm for the tray to collapse in the shift of weight. So what you do with your body weight or ... what you don't do with it, plays a huuuuge bearing on how your bike behaves, how it's balanced, and how that weight can affect grip.

Because Steve looks like he's along for the ride if you like (bit harsh .. sorry Steve .. but you get my drift) the momentum of the bike and it's little initial slide in the corner takes over, and once it's going .... it's going! Would a more 'active', 'involved' 'looser torso' 'just move that body weight about a tad' rider have either reacted more quickly to the front slipping or better still, prevented the front from slipping altogether ?? Who knows, but for my money, if Steve is scratching his head and is thinking 'are there any lessons to be learned from that', I'd say yes .... be a tiny bit more physical with your weight on the bike and move it about just a little bit.

(NB ... This is why off roading is so good for your skills!!)

I've looked through Youtube trying to find some examples of non lairy body movement and can't really find anything that appropriate, but this link is a reasonable example of upper body involvement (notice how he sits still in the saddle so no hanging off and knee out) and how he is using his arms and body weight to his advantage.

<iframe width="854" height="480" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/fXWVYtsf43Y" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Interesting.























I still think Wapping had it nailed with the giant bat though

Andres

PS Why do twats quote entire long posts? It really makes my boil piss.

 

[Wapping]

Well now ...

I have now seen the video, and I've got to say ... I am quite surprised too! I was sort of expecting lairy speeds and lairy lean angles and it's all pretty sensible! So I can understand your head scratching.

Personally, I think he pushes his front first. We can all see his back coming round, but I think it's his front that goes first - just by the tiniest amount, and it all goes wrong from there.

I don't want to come across as one of these wankers that tells you how to go round a corner .... but ...

What I would say is that 'Steve' looks a pretty big guy and sits very still on his bike, he also looks like he rides on his insteps? (Hard to tell exactly..). So when you're a big, still sack of spuds, on insteps, there's very little input from you in terms of moving your body about and using your weight. You really are the ultimate passenger along for the ride and the bike is going to be the boss. Being 'still' is not such a bad thing - the ultimate swan on the water style is 'quietly efficient' (Page one, paragraph one ..!) but there's a balance to be had between being so still on your bike that you give it no input what so ever, and of course being lairy and hanging off and all that shit that we're most definitely not talking about.

The perfect balance in my very humble opinion, is a very active torso, very very relaxed elbows, definitely riding on the balls of your feet and a head that sort of leads the way into corners (Think chin towards the leading mirror).

What caused Steves tyres to let go? (Front I think) I've absolutely no idea?! (We could talk for hours on 'easy in, hard out', 'tyre grip trade off', acceleration sense etc etc), but (heres the wanker advice bit .. !) by being so still and 'unanimated' if you like, once that front had a little tiny slip, there was no loose rider input to be able to catch it and recover, there was no body weight to move about and be 'active' and 'involved' in the bikes steering and manourvering. What does your head weigh ? six or seven kilos? What about your upper body and head 35 / 40 kilos? That is a lot of weight! Thats an olympic bar and two 20k plates! Now imagine putting that on a waiters tray and getting him to hold it balanced with one hand. You'd only have to move that weight about a 1cm for the tray to collapse in the shift of weight. So what you do with your body weight or ... what you don't do with it, plays a huuuuge bearing on how your bike behaves, how it's balanced, and how that weight can affect grip.

Because Steve looks like he's along for the ride if you like (bit harsh .. sorry Steve .. but you get my drift) the momentum of the bike and it's little initial slide in the corner takes over, and once it's going .... it's going! Would a more 'active', 'involved' 'looser torso' 'just move that body weight about a tad' rider have either reacted more quickly to the front slipping or better still, prevented the front from slipping altogether ?? Who knows, but for my money, if Steve is scratching his head and is thinking 'are there any lessons to be learned from that', I'd say yes .... be a tiny bit more physical with your weight on the bike and move it about just a little bit.

(NB ... This is why off roading is so good for your skills!!)

I've looked through Youtube trying to find some examples of non lairy body movement and can't really find anything that appropriate, but this link is a reasonable example of upper body involvement (notice how he sits still in the saddle so no hanging off and knee out) and how he is using his arms and body weight to his advantage.

<iframe width="854" height="480" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/fXWVYtsf43Y" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Interesting.























I still think Wapping had it nailed with the giant bat though

Andres

PS Why do twats quote entire long posts? It really make my boil piss.

Because they are bikermates and can't be arsed to do anything but.

PS Anyone got news on the bat?

 

[twizzle]

tell me more about being a fat bloke and a sack of spuds....

 

[fred_jb]

Not necessarily so ...

If the centre stand dropped down it wouldn't dig in, now would it

Unless our friend was reversing

I think it could in some circumstances. If you are leaning enough the main pressure could be lateral across the stand which might make it jam and dig in, rather than vertical which would make it retract.

 

[younger06]

tell me more about being a fat bloke and a sack of spuds....

Leave me out of this!!

Sent from a OnePlusX.

 

[(RIP) Johno23]

Giles, you're fucking wasted as a copper,
You should have been a diplomat or politician.
Most would have just said " fat fucker fucked up the bend"
Sorry Steve, you're ok, that's all that really matters

 

[Wrigsby1]

My experience of the picos was it was so grippy it was hard to fall off... Mind that was an 11gs with slimbo researching my inner twat school of riding... Too smooth, too sedate, over lard inertia defeat...? Next to olive oil grove...? Was looking for radio 4 n hit mode button...?&#55357;&#56834;

 

[Engineer]

Trouble with corners is that you can never assume the level of grip is consistent all the way around on the line that you choose to take - on an unknown road you can only guess at the level of grip, so the wise thing to do is to forget the 'making progress' bollox and go around much, much slower than what you think the limit is - simples. Once you have discovered the corners characteristics by riding it a few times then you can up the pace - but before you 'know' you are taking a big risk.

 

[oblertone]

Fuel & tyres don't mix very well; early Metro Turbo had the fuel overflow above the offside rear tyre, fill it up and take an enthusiastic Rt hander meant fuel flooded on to the tyre causing a car/wall interface. If he'd brimmed the tank with cold fuel on a warm day then quite possible that some got on the tyre which won't have helped

 

[Deleted account 190920002]

Perhaps I'm over simplifying it but I nearly had an off on a trip up the Moray coast. On the coastal path around Gardenstown I hit some gravel on a steep drop with sharp bend and just by luck held it upright but it was near thing. I'm sure I was just tired stiff on the saddle and not focussing after long haul up and loads of roadworks on A90.

 

[jetjock]

Just watched the video on tv and he certainly looks like he's braking in the corners , as you can see the brake light on . Does he use the back brake a lot ?

 

[Blackal]

Just watched the video on tv and he certainly looks like he's braking in the corners , as you can see the brake light on . Does he use the back brake a lot ?

I think this has been addressed - it is the LED tail light and how it appears on digital footage? No braking apparently

 

[jetjock]

I think this has been addressed - it is the LED tail light and how it appears on digital footage? No braking apparently

 

[Engineer]

I think this has been addressed - it is the LED tail light and how it appears on digital footage? No braking apparently

We cannot be certain that he wasn't braking, the following rider may have been mistaken, just a touch of the front brake lever could do this with linked brakes with that amount of lean angle?????.

 

[jetjock]

We cannot be certain that he wasn't braking, the following rider may have been mistaken, just a touch of the front brake lever could do this with linked brakes with that amount of lean angle?????.

It certainly seems strange how quickly it broke traction at that lean angle , especially when there wasn't a pile of bikes at the Armco having had a similar fate .

 

[fred_jb]

I am familiar with the appearance of LED lights flickering on video, but the brightness is generally quite low if it is just the rear light compared with when the brake lights are activated. Stepping slowly through the video I'm pretty sure the light comes on at full brightness at one point.

 

[RedRick Esq.]

We cannot be certain that he wasn't braking, the following rider may have been mistaken, just a touch of the front brake lever could do this with linked brakes with that amount of lean angle?????.

We can be certain

1 The brake light is not on at the moment of loss
2 the bike has lean ABS anyway
3 The data log on the sat nav indicates the bike was accelerating ( pulling through the corner)
4 Andy says he was not braking and that is good enough for me

 

[RedRick Esq.]

It certainly seems strange how quickly it broke traction at that lean angle , especially when there wasn't a pile of bikes at the Armco having had a similar fate .

There were few other scars on the Armco if it helps

 

[Roadrash Rider]

https://youtu.be/1-o65_4k3MY

 

[Deleted account 190920002]

Red poo poo happens I've ridden since 1964 and appart from times at sea/ long work jobs always had bikes to ride. I've had offs and I've tried (mostly) to work out why, sometimes me, sometimes no reason why the bike let go. I wouldn't go to much into why and wherefores looking at the vid doesnt tell all the story. As someone in a kids film said "pick yourself up dust yourself down and start all over again" poo poo happens to the best of us my friend. But sorry for your friends ordeal.