Diagnosing an Electrical Fault

[ExpatinIstanbul]

My bike's with a BMW dealer, having an electrical fault diagnosed. They've got all the diagnosis gizmos and are supposedly BMW trained "technicians", as the dealer is the official BMW importer here in Turkey.

My question is: if they've got all the gadgets, and are trained and experienced "technicians", is it acceptable that they spent all day trying to trace the fault on my bike, but couldn't find it? I'd have thought the canbus system was fairly simple to plug in and fault find on, but maybe I'm wrong. Before I go shouting at them can a few of you tell me if they should easily be able to find the fault?

Bike won't start and dash shows start up procedure several times then stays on. At first there was nothing when trying to start it, then at some point I got the clicking sound, but nothing else.

 

[nedflanders]

I haven't had that much experience from dealers but I bought my bike in Germany while serving out there, come time to bring it back to UK I wanted the clocks changing, the dealer quoted me 30mins labour, well because it wasn't as straight forward as they thought (they needed the firmware for the ECU from the factory to get the odometer to work) it took several days for them to sort it, during that time they loaned me a Truimph Sprint (horrible bike ), finally picked it up and they waived the labour charge because of the inconvenience, somehow I doubt UK dealers will be quite so kind, no idea how the dealers will be where you are. It sounds like the battery though

 

[ExpatinIstanbul]

I haven't had that much experience from dealers but I bought my bike in Germany while serving out there, come time to bring it back to UK I wanted the clocks changing, the dealer quoted me 30mins labour, well because it wasn't as straight forward as they thought (they needed the firmware for the ECU from the factory to get the odometer to work) it took several days for them to sort it, during that time they loaned me a Truimph Sprint (horrible bike ), finally picked it up and they waived the labour charge because of the inconvenience, somehow I doubt UK dealers will be quite so kind, no idea how the dealers will be where you are. It sounds like the battery though

Funny you should say that, after a day of investigation, they have come back to me and said the same thing. Why they didn't check that first I don't know.

In the meantime they've also said I have an oil leak AND the clutch needs changing. So, what was a 50 euro job just became a 1,200 euro job.

I am not a happy bunny.

 

[ebbo]

Is it dripping oil? I doubt it. If the only problem you were aware of was the electrical fault that’s all I’d want fixing right now, and if it was only the battery I wouldn’t be paying for hours of wrong diagnosis…

 

[nedflanders]

Gotta agree, if you haven't noticed any clutch slip or oil anywhere I'd want the bike back, and if a new battery does cure it I'd be asking serious questions about there diagnostic skills, i.e if it takes them that long to diagnose that do you want them stripping your clutch down, get the manual and do it yourself

 

[Pukmeister]

Wiring faults:

1) Voltage not present. eg open-circuit (broken wire, faulty switch etc), low supply voltage (battery or charging fault), high resistance (Corroded) contact .
2) Earth not present (bad earthing, volts can get in but not back out of the circuit eg broken earth wire, corroded earth terminal etc).
3) Lack of command signal over controller network (eg canbus network fault). CANBUS is very fault tolerant and extremely reliable. If its faulty it will show up on diagnostics during interrogation. It also intelligently shuts down faulty circuits so a problematic circuit should not drag the rest of the bikes systems down. On that basis, the fault is most likely directly related to the starter circuit, which is controlled via the CAN network.

Other problems likely to be present: Engineer isn't much cop, hasn't a clue or can't be arsed.

How hard can it be, especially with a decent set of test equipment and diagnostic software aids?

Personally I would do a few simple checks:

1) Charge the battery fully
2) Check the battery terminals are clean and tight.
3) Pull the starter relay (under the seat) out of its socket and check for corrosion to the socket wiring. (Maybe even try a ''hotwire across the relay socket secondary contacts to see if the starter turns over briefly.)
4) Pull the cover off the starter motor and check all wiring is tight and free of corrosion (very likely). Also check the starter is firmly bolted to the engine.

After that, I'd try the multimeter and GS911 for more in-depth diagnosis (though I appreciate you may not have one in Turkey.)

 

[ExpatinIstanbul]

Thanks for the advice guys, here's an update.

The electrical fault turned out to be the battery, yet again. The dealer tried to charge me 60 quid for this diagnosis, but once I explained the battery was still under warranty and that this should have been the first thing to check, they scrubbed it from the bill. New battery, no cost.

The clutch got replaced, partly because I caved in to the pressure of them already having the bike in bits (to replace 4 seals) and so not having to pay much for labour) and partly because I prefer to be safe than sorry. I took the old clutch home with me and will be posting pics on here to get other member's views on whether it was worn or not. 900 bloody euros.

Gearbox and other seals. BMW agreed to a goodwill repair, so I got left with 25% of the bill.....still, another 119 euros.

An odd thing. As far as I'm aware, when checking for electrical problem or checking for oil leaks, there's no need to remove or check the rear brake pads. I could be wrong, mind. But, I am wondering why they they'd changed the pads (they showed me a pair that had needed replacing, but I've no way of knowing if they were mine originally). They only charged me for the parts, but bearing their profit margin in mind, and that it'd have only taken them 2 mins to change them, they've done alright out of me.

All told, 1190 euros, for a bike that went in with what turned out to be a faulty battery. That's the last they see of me.

 

[GSband]

That's a horror story

 

[Pukmeister]

A wise man once said "You pay peanuts, you get monkeys".

In your case, you pay them silver and gold and guess what you got.....a bunch of turkeys.

 

[ExpatinIstanbul]

Tunkeys, that's what we call 'em. Tunkeys.