Do you dress for visibility in the UK?

[gasman]

Maybe, but it's never happened to me (OK, yet!)

The original question is, as you say, about reasons why or why not. I am speculating as to why not, which I'm entitled to do as I must weigh up the pros and cons too. Why do you think it shocking/surprising/too much that I speculate that it's about looking cool. Is that a taboo suggestion ? I want to look cool too, and take this into account in what I'm wearing. No-one wants to look like pipe and slippers man, but..
Sorry, I don't mean to be too aggressive about it, but I AM amazed by people not wearing high viz, and I DO see them in casualty, as I work in a hospital. I make a point of asking bikers (if and when their brains are working again after their anaesthetic) how it happened. From what I can see, mostly they are coy about the fact that they were at fault, but second comes the good old smidsy. I don't usually ask about hi viz, cos by this time they're getting defensive. Hmmm...

 

[cookie]

it's not about them seeing you. it's you seeing (and reading) them IMO.

i can't see how hi viz would make a blind bit of difference to my riding experience.

got to say, it's worrying the faith some people put in flouro vests. there seems feck all evidence that they work.

as for Do what you want, but don't complain about smidsy if you're not hi viz.

i can't believe a sane person could say that. where shall we stop? should have a strobe and a siren on our heads too?

 

[MikeP]

Why do you think it shocking/surprising/too much that I speculate that it's about looking cool. Is that a taboo suggestion ?

I just answered the question that was asked.

Looking "cool" is so subjective, it's a matter of taste.

I just don't see it as an issue with regard to the subject matter.

I found it odd that someone can be so certain that Hi-viz clothing is keeping them safe. Convinced enough to say what you did.

Cookie is spot-on.

it's not about them seeing you. it's you seeing (and reading) them IMO.

Maybe I can afford to be blasé about it because I had the benefit of probably the best real world training possible.

 

[GSmonkey]

Do what you want, but don't complain about smidsy if you're not hi viz.

I think you can still complain. smidsy is more often than not truthfully smidl (sorry mate I didn't look). If they don't look, you could be head to toe hiviz, with flashing lights everywhere and a catherine wheel on your head and they're still not going to see you.

 

[RubberMan]

IMHO the more the better and max defensive riding too. On the practical side I was interested in the earlier posts concerning the extra riding lights and how that creates an improved sense of approach speed. Can anyone recommend a good set of value riding lights for my Dakar? I cant stretch to a £300+ set of xenons but whats the next best option?

Also, where can I get some reflective haz tape for my panniers? Where can I find 2 wheeled humvee?

TIA

 

[Mick_rw]

There..

got to say, it's worrying the faith some people put in flouro vests. there seems feck all evidence that they work.

is evidence that yellow is the most visible color of all the colors, it is the first color that the human eye notices. But as you say they need to be looking, so when they are looking they will see the rider with the yellow Hi-Viz before they see you......

 

[Rushy]

got to say, it's worrying the faith some people put in flouro vests. there seems feck all evidence that they work.

I am not quite sure why you said that.

I think it might be partially based on some of the other comments made previously about "i know a police officer who got knocked off , so dayglo doesnt work"

There have been several similar comments and I dont quite get them . Surely we are only talking about the times that for whatever reason the dayglo made no difference ......what we dont know is how many times during their thousands and thousands of miles travelled they didnt get knocked off because the dayglo did make a difference.
Its like saying planes are not a good way of guaranteeing that you arrive somewhere safely because occasionally they have been known to crash.

As previously mentioned surely they are a good idea so long as you don't believe that they are some kind of 'cloak of invincibilty"

 

[CBFer]

it's not about them seeing you. it's you seeing (and reading) them IMO.

i can't see how hi viz would make a blind bit of difference to my riding experience.

got to say, it's worrying the faith some people put in flouro vests. there seems feck all evidence that they work.

as for Do what you want, but don't complain about smidsy if you're not hi viz.

i can't believe a sane person could say that. where shall we stop? should have a strobe and a siren on our heads too?

Cookie, can I ask you a question? When you are on your bike or in your car, do you become aware of bikers or cyclists who are wearing hi-viz sooner than you become aware of those who are not wearing hi-viz?

 

[Rushy]

IMHO the more the better and max defensive riding too. On the practical side I was interested in the earlier posts concerning the extra riding lights and how that creates an improved sense of approach speed. Can anyone recommend a good set of value riding lights for my Dakar? I cant stretch to a £300+ set of xenons but whats the next best option?

Also, where can I get some reflective haz tape for my panniers? Where can I find 2 wheeled humvee?

TIA

You only need a couple of lights that are 10 watts or so set as wide apart as the bike will allow. This will give the oncoming traffic a greater idea of your width and size and therefore allowing them a better chance of correctly assessing your approach speed.

You can get a set of LED cruise lights from Halfords for about £25.

 

[RubberMan]

Thanks Rushy

 

[cookie]

Cookie, can I ask you a question? When you are on your bike or in your car, do you become aware of bikers or cyclists who are wearing hi-viz sooner than you become aware of those who are not wearing hi-viz?

not as far as i am aware. often the high viz at T junction is contrasted against the sky. how much use is that?

i think the typical smidsy is actually, "i did see you, but either my brain discounted you 'cos it was a bike and i was looking for a car" or "i did see you, but i totally misjudged your approach speed" either way, they are unlikely to admit the real truth so it's smidsy.

the misjudged approach speed thing is also increased by having your headlight on in daylight according to some surveys (i can't quote them sadly).

i never rode with headlights on in the daylight either, until i got a bike with no switch.

my last smidsy incident was probably 10 years ago. i misread his intentions and he pulled out. i had an 80mph broadside slide (drum brakes for you) but luckily missed him.
i believe the people who moan about this happening several times a day are not looking where they are going and will end up in a heap rather more often.

maybe i'm just lucky

 

[Mullabrack]

Cheers Rushy

Thanks to Rushy ive just ordered a new icon mill hi vis jacket to go with my 990 Adventure (in orange obviously) as per his posted photo.Cheers for that Rushy
As for the raging debate,well in a democratic society surely its our own choice.If you think it offers an added safety margin,wear it and if not,don't.Simple.

 

[gasman]

Do what you want, but don't complain about smidsy if you're not hi viz.

i can't believe a sane person could say that. where shall we stop? should have a strobe and a siren on our heads too?

Re a strobe: that might distract oncoming vehicles, would require a power source, would be very heavy and would interfere with the safety function of the helmet.
Re a siren: all of the above, plus unpleasant and distractingly loud.

Now, please feel free to give your arguments against a hi viz bib.

I agree, that I hate people telling me what safety measures to take. We all make our own judgements but this is something that I really do believe in, and so I'm trying to contribute some opinion and hopefully fact to the discussion. Constructively.

Anyway, one more point. I know it's easier to judge the speed, direction and closeness of an object (whether in central or peripheral vision) when it's bright and stands out. A practical and interesting example of this is football strips (!). Footballers need to judge very quickly out of the corner of their eye where their teammate is and where he's heading. Most successful teams therefore have single colour hi viz strips eg white, red, bright blue and even orange! Those that want lo-viz colours such as black or green (against grass) tend to have them in high contrast stripes (eg Celtic, juventus), or high contrast claret/blue. I don't know anyone who's got a brown colour scheme.
There are exceptions of course. One of the classics was Man United's grey strip, designed to go well with jeans, which was dropped very quickly [after getting beaten 5-0 by Southampton as I recall] because the players said they couldn't see each other.
By comparison, in sports where you DON'T need to rapidly judge speed/distance etc, you can wear whatever colours you want. Examples being cricket and horse racing.

 

[Fanum]

Now, please feel free to give your arguments against a hi viz bib.

On my GSA, I sit just at 7 feet tall and I'm nearly four feet wide.
I run both my indicators on at 50% brightness all the time, my side light is on permanently with my dipped beam and I run two 55w halogen fog lights that are angled downwards but still very bright and visible.

I ride in an assertive position on the road.....I dominate it as a matter of course, if behind a car so I'm always in a mirror, if on an open road so that I'm in the right hand car wheel track (IYSWIM)

If someone pulling out hasn't seen me with all that going on, a hi viz tabard isn't going to make the slightest bit of difference....not one iota

In fact, it could confuse....I'm not sure I want them to have a millisecond's subconscious thought that I might be plod or something....

I also ride as I said in a different post....assuming that 50% of the cars out there really are going to do the most stupid thing they could at any given moment, and that the other 50% are actually out to kill me....plus I assume that I'm invisible to them.

Observation skills, assertive positioning, reading the road and the 'body language' of both the cars on it and their drivers is a far far more important than Hi Viz IMO.

It's common sense things that save you.....always keeping the bike in gear and watching your mirrors when stopping a sensible distance behind a stationary car for example, so you can move/squirt your way out of it if some numpty doesn't notice a line of cars and looks like he's going to run into them and you.......looking both ways quickly even as you win the traffic light derby in case there's a large vehicle with blue lights on it heading across the lights on a shout or a twatty red light jumper.........and committing to moves to keep you in the 'at risk' zone for as short a time as possible (it's not possible to keep out of them all the time )


Hi Viz= false sense of security and they just look silly as well, sorry

 

[Marjorie Proops]

Do you dress for visibility in the UK?

I wear my specs, so yes.

 

[cookie]

Now, please feel free to give your arguments against a hi viz bib.

not an argument against them as such but....the more people that wear them now, the sooner some dimwit in government will make them compulsory. thin end of the wedge if you ask me (you did).

i choose not to wear one, that's all. thought i'd say so & why as per the original intent of the thread.

I agree, that I hate people telling me what safety measures to take. We all make our own judgements but this is something that I really do believe in, and so I'm trying to contribute some opinion and hopefully fact to the discussion. Constructively.

i'd like to see some facts about the benefit of these things. we've had an ex police rider say they don't do what you say and one that won't wear it though.

I agree, that I hate people telling me what safety measures to take. We all make our own judgements but this is something that I really do believe in

i think we must agree to differ here.

Anyway, one more point. I know it's easier to judge the speed, direction and closeness of an object (whether in central or peripheral vision) when it's bright and stands out.

only if it's against a contrasting background. seems a bit random to me what might be behind you at any given instant

it's not about "cool", i just don't want to wear one. i like to wear a helmet, but i'm not at all sure if i should be made to.
i imagine they are quite warm & keep the rain out to some extent.

each to his own...


i said i'd never have a top box once

 

[boxerdog]

Does anyone know the official position the law would take on use of auxilliary lights. I thought it was an offence in a car earning a FPT other than when in restricted visibility.

 

[MikeP]

Does anyone know the official position the law would take on use of auxilliary lights. I thought it was an offence in a car earning a FPT other than when in restricted visibility.

Have a quick look at the the Road Vehicle (Lighting) Regs.

Auxiliary lamps. The height and width from the external limits of the vehicle determine whether they are deemed 'fog lamps' or 'driving lamps.'

You'd have to mount extra lights at about the hight of the front wheel spindle on a GS to have them be treated as fog lamps. Fog lamps can only be used during conditions of reduced visibility (rain, fog or falling snow).

Driving lamps (main beam) must be either capable of dipping or be turned off by the dip-switch (contrary to Reg 8 R.V. (Lighting) Regs. Anti-dazzle breach, if memory serves).

Nothing to stop the use of a diffused lamp (like a fog lamp) as a running light provided the position complies.

 

[Rushy]

Thanks to Rushy ive just ordered a new icon mill hi vis jacket to go with my 990 Adventure (in orange obviously) as per his posted photo.Cheers for that Rushy
As for the raging debate,well in a democratic society surely its our own choice.If you think it offers an added safety margin,wear it and if not,don't.Simple.

Your welcome . I hope you like the jacket, it's a quality piece of kit . But please remember , dont call me from casualty to complain if you still get knocked off the first time you wear it

Perhaps i shouldn't have typed that

BTW - has anyone else noted that the noob who started this debate hasn't bothered once to comment further ?

 

[Rushy]

Do you dress for visibility in the UK?

I wear my specs, so yes.