Does ASA 'learn'?

[Skyboy999]

Thinking of buying R1300GS with ASA. As many have said, when I test rode, I found Drive modes clunky but manual superb. It seems obvious to me that this is due to it wanting to change up at too low revs.
Many reports say that Drive mode 'learns' rider style and adapts accordingly. I asked a couple local Motorrad dealers about this and they couldn't help so I contacted UK support. Their initial response was helpful confirming, as I thought, that it behaves differently in different modes but when I kept enquiring about whether it 'learned', I couldn't get a proper response, only marketing gen. So:
1) can anybody confirm whether it does 'learn' and, if so, how to teach;
2) does it behave differently depending upon how much throttle applied? I didn't think to try this on my test ride but wonder if more aggressive on throttle then maybe gear changes later...
TIA

 

[jetjock]

I’ve done around 1000 miles on my ASA GS and I’m sure it does learn . To teach it is to ride it .
Definitely. It will hold a gear depending on throttle position .

The great thing about Auto or D is you can change gear at anytime you like and it remains in D . So when you forget to change down or up it does it for you . It’s a great system . I was very sceptical at first but I do like it a great deal . Manual on the other hand gives you full control until you go outside the parameters ( too high or low RPM ) and then it’ll make the gear change itself . Occasionally the Drive mode is a little abrupt but you get used to it .

 

[Beerman]

I have a 1300GS asa. I am not convinced that it 'learns'. How could it? However, two things happen:

1. The bike becomes less clunky (much less) as it breaks in.
2. You become familiar with it and anticipate gear changes - perfectly.

If I had a third - I would say yes, it behaves differently depending on throttle applied.

At first, I didn't like it. Now, I really appreciate it. BTW, the engine braking on ASA is absolutely fantastic. And you can always override it all.

 

[jetjock]

According to BMW

• "D" (Drive) Mode: In this fully automated mode, the engine control unit automatically selects shift points based on various parameters such as riding mode, engine speed, throttle position, and lean angle. The system's "learning" function adapts the shifting action to the rider's individual riding style for a smoother or more dynamic experience.

 

[pbbanks]

Thinking of buying R1300GS with ASA. As many have said, when I test rode, I found Drive modes clunky but manual superb. It seems obvious to me that this is due to it wanting to change up at too low revs.
Many reports say that Drive mode 'learns' rider style and adapts accordingly. I asked a couple local Motorrad dealers about this and they couldn't help so I contacted UK support. Their initial response was helpful confirming, as I thought, that it behaves differently in different modes but when I kept enquiring about whether it 'learned', I couldn't get a proper response, only marketing gen. So:
1) can anybody confirm whether it does 'learn' and, if so, how to teach;
2) does it behave differently depending upon how much throttle applied? I didn't think to try this on my test ride but wonder if more aggressive on throttle then maybe gear changes later...
TIA

It's very hard to tell if IT learns or it's you the rider who learns. You learn little tricks to make make it do what you want to do or lots of the time you just change gear with the lever but still leave it in D (drive).
Little tricks like dabbing the front brake lever and it will change down a gear, dab it again and it will change down another gear (if revs and throttle opening allow it). Another thing I've found if you are accelerating up through the gears and sometimes you are wanting to just get into higher gears quicker but its holding into the gears longer than you feel you want to then just hold a steady throttle & it will change up. Eg you've accelerated up through the gears & got to 4th and you're happy now to just go 5th & then 6th and cruise, then rather than keep revving up the gears until it changes (which it will) just hold a steady throttle & it's smoother & changes up.

Hard to explain but I think it's maybe you who learns rather the bike.
I always use it in D mode rather than manual and just use the gear lever if circumstances mean it hasn't changed when I think it should have e.g. going up a steep hill with a sharp bend, the bike doesn't know there's a steep corner coming and hasn't changed down so just flick the gear lever down.

 

[jetjock]

I know what you mean but you can always change the gear yourself in any mode . I find that is the easiest option .

 

[stever1]

I can’t comment on the ASA but I would expect it to be like the Honda DCT system.
IE, it does ‘Learn’ how you use the gears and alters its normal change points as it learns what you want.
For instance, when I got a new Goldwing it was in 7th gear by 37mph, and was gutless. After a few thousand miles it didn’t go into 7th until 60+mph and was much more like normal gear use.

 

[pbbanks]

Consistent problem I have with the ASA in the 12 months I've had the bike is it not going into first gear to set off after a stop.
Happens maybe about 1 in every 5 times, eg stop for petrol, switch ignition off etc. fill up, start bike, pull front brake lever and push gear lever down to go into first but nothing happens. No messages on TFT or anything, keep retrying releasing brake\pulling brake in again pushing gear lever down -- nothing. Usually have to switch engine off and go through the start procedure again and it goes into gear??.
Have mentioned it to my dealer but they're not sure what can be done as there are no errors showing on diagnostics and they can't replicate the fault (neither can I when I want to).

Doesn't sound a big deal but it can be embarrassing especially if you have stopped in traffic and can't get it into gear again quickly.

Just wondered if anyone else with ASA has the problem or it's only mine!.

 

[jetjock]

Consistent problem I have with the ASA in the 12 months I've had the bike is it not going into first gear to set off after a stop.
Happens maybe about 1 in every 5 times, eg stop for petrol, switch ignition off etc. fill up, start bike, pull front brake lever and push gear lever down to go into first but nothing happens. No messages on TFT or anything, keep retrying releasing brake\pulling brake in again pushing gear lever down -- nothing. Usually have to switch engine off and go through the start procedure again and it goes into gear??.
Have mentioned it to my dealer but they're not sure what can be done as there are no errors showing on diagnostics and they can't replicate the fault (neither can I when I want to).

Doesn't sound a big deal but it can be embarrassing especially if you have stopped in traffic and can't get it into gear again quickly.

Just wondered if anyone else with ASA has the problem or it's only mine!.

Yes I do have that occasionally. I just pull the brake in harder and it seems to sort it

 

[pbbanks]

Yes I do have that occasionally. I just pull the brake in harder and it seems to sort it

Don't think it's the brake , if you don't pull the brake it gives a message on the tft but I don't get that message (or any message) but I'll try that next time. Thought I'd sussed it by changing riding mode when it was doing it once but next time that didn't make any difference.

 

[jetjock]

Don't think it's the brake , if you don't pull the brake it gives a message on the tft but I don't get that message (or any message) but I'll try that next time. Thought I'd sussed it by changing riding mode when it was doing it once but next time that didn't make any difference.

Hah , I’ve just had the issue . I revved engine and it watch to fisrt gear . Might have been a coincidence

 

[pbbanks]

Hah , I’ve just had the issue . I revved engine and it watch to fisrt gear . Might have been a coincidence

That's an idea, don't think I've tried revving it, might move some cogs around to line up or something??.

 

[jetjock]

That's an idea, don't think I've tried revving it, might move some cogs around to line up or something??.

Maybe !! Or maybe I total coincidence

 

[Skyboy999]

I have a 1300GS asa. I am not convinced that it 'learns'. How could it? However, two things happen:

1. The bike becomes less clunky (much less) as it breaks in.
2. You become familiar with it and anticipate gear changes - perfectly.

If I had a third - I would say yes, it behaves differently depending on throttle applied.

At first, I didn't like it. Now, I really appreciate it. BTW, the engine braking on ASA is absolutely fantastic. And you can always override it all.

Yes, that makes sense and I've come round to that way of thinking. BMW have been unable to give me any information that substantiates 'learning' only product literature explaining different behaviours in different modes and (without detail) reference to 'throttle response' with this being the only tangible control I suspect the rider can exert to influence. I've now written to Motorrad Head Office to see if I can get any more detail but, so far, no reply- will post if/when I do.
All this aside, I think I would be inclined to spec ASA though, in practice, only probably use D about town traffic preferring M for normal riding.

 

[mw3230]

At the outset I acknowledge that the ASA system is not a DCT but I’m thinking how Honda has refined their DCT over several iterations. It’s reasonable to assume that BMW will do the same and the ‘learning’ the system demonstrates may well be that which the engineers observe as a result of real, as opposed to test, miles and use to aid improvements.

 

[pbbanks]

Yes, that makes sense and I've come round to that way of thinking. BMW have been unable to give me any information that substantiates 'learning' only product literature explaining different behaviours in different modes and (without detail) reference to 'throttle response' with this being the only tangible control I suspect the rider can exert to influence. I've now written to Motorrad Head Office to see if I can get any more detail but, so far, no reply- will post if/when I do.
All this aside, I think I would be inclined to spec ASA though, in practice, only probably use D about town traffic preferring M for normal riding.

You'll probably find you leave it in D most of the time and just override it by using the gear lever when you want to.
If I ride in manual I sometimes forget that it hasn't changed down when I pull up to junctions etc. . Makes it that bit easier not having think what gear you are in all the time, eg when going into roundabout, or a junction, and maybe having to stop at the last minute because a vehicle has appeared & you have to stop. Filtering in traffic is a lot easier because you don't have to slip the clutch to go slower & stop\start as the bike works the clutch for you.
You can still ride sportingly in D drive, put it in dynamic mode and it holds onto gears for longer.

 

[tw99]

According to BMW

• "D" (Drive) Mode: In this fully automated mode, the engine control unit automatically selects shift points based on various parameters such as riding mode, engine speed, throttle position, and lean angle. The system's "learning" function adapts the shifting action to the rider's individual riding style for a smoother or more dynamic experience.

Yes, that makes sense and I've come round to that way of thinking. BMW have been unable to give me any information that substantiates 'learning' only product literature explaining different behaviours in different modes and (without detail) reference to 'throttle response' with this being the only tangible control I suspect the rider can exert to influence. I've now written to Motorrad Head Office to see if I can get any more detail but, so far, no reply- will post if/when I do.
All this aside, I think I would be inclined to spec ASA though, in practice, only probably use D about town traffic preferring M for normal riding.

BMW's SMG gearboxes on M cars had this learning feature 25 years ago, so I'm not surprised that the bikes do it, as it's a similar system with an actuator on a standard clutch. On such cars it definitely "learns", although the effect can be quite subtle. Basically if you drive more "sportily" it will start to dump the clutch faster rather than feathering it in.

If BMW's literature says that there's an element of learning that affects shift speed, why doubt it ?

 

[jetjock]

BMW's SMG gearboxes on M cars had this learning feature 25 years ago, so I'm not surprised that the bikes do it, as it's a similar system with an actuator on a standard clutch. On such cars it definitely "learns", although the effect can be quite subtle. Basically if you drive more "sportily" it will start to dump the clutch faster rather than feathering it in.

If BMW's literature says that there's an element of learning that affects shift speed, why doubt it ?

I guess it only needs a memory in the ECU or software .

 

[JoeBiff]

…… 'throttle response' with this being the only tangible control I suspect the rider can exert to influence.

There’s more than just throttle responses.
There are other measurables, such as brake force and application and distribution, gear held, speed, rate of change of speed, lean angles, driving conditions, riding styles.
Lots of stuff that’s useful to them, really.

I've now written to Motorrad Head Office to see if I can get any more detail but, so far, no reply- will post if/when I do.

Don’t hold your breath.
They may think you’re a journo looking for a scoop. Maybe even the “competition”

 

[botus]

ant brain software changing up earlier and down later based on light throttle application - then swapping rapidly to road rage mode if you've ripped it for a second - and then forgetting to get back to normal for at least 5 miles - has been around for 35 years

I would hope its advanced a bit with ASA - but then the 2008 RR and by 2010 BMW autos using GPS to remove 40% of pointless gear changing is not there on the R1300, so likely its adaptive capability is not very sophisticated