Dogbytes' R80 ST project

[Dogbytes]

Moving forward again

Okay, yesterday morning we rented a new workshop. Just a small one and only to build this bike.

I'm still waiting for the wheels...

Have had discussions with Richie Moore about the engine specification (I have number of dilemmas here!).

By this weekend, with a bit of luck, the bike will have returned and what's left of my workshop equipment will be installed in the new place.

Many thanks to PH without whom, etc.

Pics to follow soon...

 

[Rob Farmer]

Have had discussions with Richie Moore about the engine specification (I have number of dilemmas here!).

Would that be the 800cc stumbling block along with the early 800 heads?

 

[Dogbytes]

Would that be the 800cc stumbling block along with the early 800 heads?

The 800 engine that I have is, I think, from 1983 - although the bike was registered in 1985. As far as I can remember anyway.

No, there is the issue of whether I want it to be practical on the road, just about rideable on the road or track only. I'd have liked it to be somewhere about the middle - the just about rideable on the road, daylight MOT, etc.

When I were a lad we had tuned 2-strokes that were a bit like that and I liked them. Likewise there were a few ex-endurance race bikes in a similar state of tune. I want to replicate that. I'd also have liked to lose the starter motor and have it bump/roller start only. Remember it's not an everyday driver, it's a statement. Or a toy, if you like.

Richie Moore has made a strong case against the shear impracticality of this philosophy and the wisdom of having start on the button. And Richie knows whereof he speaks. However if I stall this bike on the grid it doesn't matter - it doesn't have to win anything...

I know he's right but if I wanted the ultimate in efficiency and convenience, would I even be doing this project? I'd like the fact that it needed a bit of effort and you'd have to get it right. I'd like that it would bite you if you got it wrong, I'd like the fact that I'd saved 5 pounds off the weight even if I'm 15 pounds overweight...

The bike I owned longer than any other bike was 1977 Moto Guzzi Le Mans mk1. I bought it on my 21st birthday (it was 11 months old) and I kept it for 11 years. During its life it gained a works Production Racer kit (with 40mm Dellortos which had neither chokes nor accelerator pumps) and lost its starter motor. It started as my everyday ride, once taking me over 154 miles of Pennine B roads in 1 hour 45 minutes (which I don't think I could equal on my K1300S) and ended up as a sunny Sunday piece of lunacy that sounded like a WW1 aeroplane. And I loved it. And that, I think, is what I'm trying to recapture.

Decisions, decisions.

 

[Rob Farmer]

Ah! so you wanted the 90+ bhp then?

If it helps I have Richies long skirt pistons, Ported heads and one piece valves along with his fast road cam and 38mm Dellortos and should be around 70Bhp at the rear wheel. Its a lovely smooth engine but is spoilt by the GS gearing and really needs a load to pull against, ultimately it is not staying in my GS but will go in a twin shock chassis with 32:11 final drive. My GS chassis really can't handle the engine I've had to firm everything up to the point that the ride is harsh. If you are putting a powerful airhead engine in a light chassis You will spoil the ride. I'm glad I didn't go for too much power as the chassis is the limiting factor. Too much power and you'll be hopping and skipping everywhere as well as struggling for grip on the tyres.

 

[Dogbytes]

Ah! so you wanted the 90+ bhp then?

If it helps I have Richies long skirt pistons, Ported heads and one piece valves along with his fast road cam and 38mm Dellortos and should be around 70Bhp at the rear wheel. Its a lovely smooth engine but is spoilt by the GS gearing and really needs a load to pull against, ultimately it is not staying in my GS but will go in a twin shock chassis with 32:11 final drive. My GS chassis really can't handle the engine I've had to firm everything up to the point that the ride is harsh. If you are putting a powerful airhead engine in a light chassis You will spoil the ride. I'm glad I didn't go for too much power as the chassis is the limiting factor. Too much power and you'll be hopping and skipping everywhere as well as struggling for grip on the tyres.

Actually, in my I initial talks with Richie, I said that 70bhp at the back wheel would be plenty. I'm not sure what the output of the engine he spoke to me about the other day. He did say he had a cam that would give a little over 11mm of lift and the motor would make max power at around 8000rpm which sounds reasonable. I'm more interested in good torque over a wide range but we do need to bear in mind that it is, principally, a track bike so the perception of torque there will be different than when riding on the road. I also don't want to have to tear it down every year for a refresh. No, 90bhp would be too much.

Gearing is the certainly an issue, as we've discussed before. I can't lay my hands on my gearing-workings-out right now but, if I remember correctly, the highest available monolever ratio would give me 130mph @ 8000rpm. That'll be fine for now - and may be fine forever, I was considering running it in the odd hill climb or sprint but I know nothing of these sports except that I like the concept. My other option would be to run a 19" rear rim but I haven't worked out what that would get me top end wise.

I have to say, though, that all of the options are far better than those of a month ago when I thought I'd never see it finished!

 

[Dogbytes]

Wheels - or parts therof!

I still haven't got the wheels back - but I've seen them, well the black bits anyway!

Hubs and rims have been powder-coated gloss black. We're still awaiting the spokes, after some confusion and delays, but they should be with us in a couple of days and then our local wheel-builder can put them together.

With a bit of luck I'll have them back in ten days or so and I'll get a pair of tyres on them. The rest of the bike is on its way back here and will be installed in the new workshop this evening.

 

[andy198712]

who do you use local to do the wheels bud? if you need help moving the equipment i'm happy to help.

RE the starter issue, picture this... Helston main street, slight up hill, you stall ect, how do you restart with cars behind?

 

[Dogbytes]

Cornwall Bike Restoration got the powdercoating done and will be getting the wheels laced - so it's whoever he uses. Watch this space for a report on the finished article.

I get off, apologise to the queue, turn around and bump it down the hill But seriously, Coinagehall Street, Helston is not this bike's natural habitat...

Thanks for the offer of help but it's mostly in there now. Bike arrived back this evening. You're welcome to come and have a look at it any time you're bored.

 

[Dogbytes]

Current state of play...

The wheel-builder is doing his thing and we are going for a 5mm offset on the rear wheel. That will give a little more space for the Wilbers 633 rear suspension unit (with ride height adjustment) that will be going on there. I am hoping for enough space to get a 130 tyre in there without interference. If I cant, I'll take the shock mounts off the mono and the frame and move the whole thing outboard a bit. Richie Moore tells me that, with a similar motor to the one we're having, a 130 tyre will struggle to last a race on the track. Since we won't be doing road races that shouldn't be an issue. Should it ever have to do a race then I'd do another back wheel with more offset. Actually I wouldnt - but that's another story...

Engine? Decision made. 980cc, long skirt pistons, high torque race cam, balanced, etc. modified & flowed heads, 38/44mm valves, decent springs, etc. Dellorto 38s and total loss ignition. Richie reckons that, on the road, it'll be 'aggressive'. And I imagine it will! Oh and yes, more sensible minds than I have won out (this time!) - it will have a starter motor...

 

[Dogbytes]

Good news and bad news this week

The good news is that the engine, spec as previously stated, is now officially on order from Richie Moore and we're hoping to see it in early March. I have to do a little more work on the frame to accommodate it, but nothing major.

The bad news is that the wheels won't be seen until March either. The guy who was going to assemble them took delivery of the various parts and announced that he couldn't do it as Central Wheels had supplied the wrong spokes and he couldn't do the back wheel anyway because it won't go on his jig. I'd rather assumed he'd been told it was a BMW mono but perhaps he hadn't. Anyway they're now going to go to Doug Richardson, in Devon, but he's a busy man.

In moving house I've managed to lose a few bits including the wheel bearings, spacer, shims, etc. I was going to replace the bearings anyway but now I'll have to do the lot. No doubt they'll turn up once I've ordered the new ones

I have a few spares, left over, which I'll sort out and offer for sale soon. I'm still after a roadster fuel tank too.

I'm also still looking for a running, basically sound (but cosmetically challenged would be acceptable) R1100R or R1150R. Other models - 850, RT, GS, etc considered. Prefer wire wheels and non-ABS.

 

[Dogbytes]

That's a change!

Previously on LA Law... I had lost the front wheel bearings and associated bits and happened to remark that I'd likely find them again - after I'd ordered new ones.

Well, today they did turn up and no, I hadn't already ordered new ones! I still need to get new bearings but that's not the end of the world.

Oddly, or not, the bits which came out don't seem to conform to any of the various options shown in my Clymer manual. If it had been a Haynes manual I'd have expected nothing else but I'd always rather like the Clymer one.

Never mind, I'm sure it'll be fairly obvious once I get the hub back and offer it all up...

 

[dr nosh]

The bad news is that the wheels won't be seen until March either. The guy who was going to assemble them took delivery of the various parts and announced that he couldn't do it as Central Wheels had supplied the wrong spokes and he couldn't do the back wheel anyway because it won't go on his jig. I'd rather assumed he'd been told it was a BMW mono but perhaps he hadn't. Anyway they're now going to go to Doug Richardson, in Devon, but he's a busy man.

.

Yes correct. The wheel building jugs around are all for hubs with 2 bearings. You need to turn up an adaptor to hold the wheel on the jig spindle.

Why buy spokes from Central wheel. Just buy them from Motobins. They have the correct ones in stock.

See a thread by me about wheel building. Including photographs.

 

[Dogbytes]

Yes correct. The wheel building jugs around are all for hubs with 2 bearings. You need to turn up an adaptor to hold the wheel on the jig spindle.

Why buy spokes from Central wheel. Just buy them from Motobins. They have the correct ones in stock.

See a thread by me about wheel building. Including photographs.

Not having ever built a wheel, I just left it in the hands of the those who know something about such things!

I have to say, I was tempted to give it a go - the worst case being I'd have to take it all apart again and give it to someone else to do. Actually, perhaps I'll read your article and give it a try, I sure that if I take my time it's do-able.

 

[Dogbytes]

Decision made

I'm going to buy the spokes from a reputable and knowledgable BMW specialist and build the wheels myself. Well everyone has to build their first wheel sometime.

Actually they don't, but I'm going to anyway. I spoke (no pun intended!) to a friend of mine who owns a bicycle shop, has built many bicycle wheels, and also owns several motorcycles - so he knows what he's talking about and he reckons that, between us, we can build them without any problems. I going to order the spokes tomorrow.

Sod this 'relying on specialists' lark...

 

[Canuck]

What the worse that could happen... you'll only end up sending it along to someone else anyway so why not have a go! Thats the sentiment that got me into BMW's in the first place. If oyu get stuck I do know a guy who would be happy to help... he's always built his own wheels and is about to set up businnes building bmw wheels as there seems to be a hole in the market.

 

[Dogbytes]

Coming soon...

Rear suspension ordered. Wilbers 633 with ride height adjustment, black and silver, from Revs. Should be here in around three weeks.

Spokes ordered from Motobins, should be here Tuesday. Got to make a wheel building jig now...

Going to order a top yoke from Toaster Tan, this weekend, too.

 

[lewisjohn]

Rear suspension ordered. Wilbers 633 with ride height adjustment, black and silver, from Revs. Should be here in around three weeks.

Spokes ordered from Motobins, should be here Tuesday. Got to make a wheel building jig now...

Going to order a top yoke from Toaster Tan, this weekend, too.

Check out my build thread (Project bike advice)I rebuilt my a cross spoke rear wheel,you just need a bit of patience and to be able to think logically.I had never built a wheel before,but I wouldn't hesitate now

 

[Dogbytes]

Wheel building...

We'll the general consensus seems to be that building the wheels should be able to be accomplished without too much trouble and the spokes arrived yesterday (Whilst I was at Ocean BMW getting the 18k service on the K1300 S - £613!).

A question for those who've done them before. I've had the rims and hubs powder coated, do you think the that I should clean out the pockets I the rims that the nipples sit in? My concern is that the powder coating there will crack up, or get ground away, leaving the spokes loose. Or do I just build them as is and retighten them later?

 

[Rob Farmer]

I would have thought you'd have problems with spoke tension if they're pulling down on powder coating and I doubt you'll get the spokes through the holes without clearing out the powder.

 

[Dogbytes]

I would have thought you'd have problems with spoke tension if they're pulling down on powder coating and I doubt you'll get the spokes through the holes without clearing out the powder.

That's what I thought, I'll clean them out.